Two R40's - One Hard Disk - How can I boot from both R40's?

[jacb]

Hi

The background is:
I have an IBM R40 that has been having some intermittent video problems (hardware fault).

Original thoughts:
A new motherboard looks like the sensible route, but would cost about the same as another second hand R40. If I buy as second R40 I get a complete set of “spares”.

Considerations:
If I buy a new motherboard according to the IBM Hardware Maintenance Manual (March 2004 - Page 61) I must run the Thinkpad hardware maintenance diskette version 1.69 and replace the new motherboards serial number with the old motherboards serial number. Failure to do this would result in the PC not booting. So the hardisk has software on it that looks for its matching PC/serial number before allowing the boot process to proceed.

It therefore follows that if I buy a second-hand R40 and hope to be able to swap a single hard disk between two R40's, then the serial numbers will have to be the same on both PC's.

The serial number:
The serial number in question is a 16 digit number. EG: 1S,2682,K2G,KBR9361 (no comers shown on the PC).
I believe that the format is:
1S = Same on all machines
2682 = Type
KG2 = Model
KBR9361 = Serial Number

Does anyone know if the boot sequence looks at the entire set of 16 digits or merely the last7 digits?

Why do I ask?
Because, I have found a second-hand R40 that is type/model 2682-HU2. My old machine is a 2682-K2G. The motherboards are not exactly the same one has 32mb of video and the other has only 16mb. One has 1394 (Firewire) and the other does not. I guess it is the model number that get's the correct drivers to install when booting. Whilst I could just change the entire 16 digit string would I have diver problems?

What would be great is if the hard disk just looked at the serial number (last 7 digits) ..... I would have no problem getting those two synchronised and hopefully the correct drivers would then be installed at boot up (provided they are both loaded on the hard drive).

So how to proceed?
Do I just strip the PC’s down and use the new (second-hand) motherboard in my old R40 - followed by the running of the Thinkpad hardware maintenance diskette to change the serial number in full? If I change the serial numbers and treat it as a new FRU motherboard I don’t think the system will be aware it has had another life as a different type of R40. IBM Hardware Maintenance Manual shows both motherboard FRU’s listed as suitable replacements for the 2681/2682 R40.

Or

Can I change the serials numbers and have two R40’s that I can swap my hard disk between – if so which numbers must match?

HELP

[RealBlackStuff]

You make it way too complicated.
The only time the TYPE and MODEL of the laptop are required, is when you run IBM/Lenovo's SystemUpdate.
At that time it needs to know what's in the machine, so it can get the specific drivers for your machine.
Run SU in the machine with the Firewire, that way you have the most complete set of drivers.

No need to mess about with the HMD more than once. You can reset the Type/Model/Serial number once when you swap mobos, and then forget about it.
At bootup it NEVER ever checks what your TYPE/Model is

If (in your case) you keep swapping the HD around, it will re-find some hardware (like the Firewire) on some swaps, but that does not prevent it from running otherwise. Because the drivers are already there, it will work fine.
You should take care that both machines use identical wifi-cards, and preferably use the same type screen (i.e. both XGA or both SXGA+).

[jacb]

Thanks RealBlackStuff for your reply ..... I think I understand.

I believe what you are saying is; if I wish to use my single hard disk in two R40’s then copy my type, model and serial number from my old R40 into the new R40, but don’t then expect to be able to use the IBM / Lenovo system update.

Obviously the easiest option if just to install the new motherboard in the old R40 and update the motherboard with the original 16 digit serial number.

What I want to know, is it the full 16 digit serial number that the hard disk looks for when booting or only the last 7 digits? If it was the last 7 digits then I could leave the type/model number part of the serial number alone and simply synchronize the 7 digit serial number. That way I could boot from either computer AND use the system update.

Regards

[RealBlackStuff]

No, you are still barking up the wrong tree.
Like I said, the ONLY time the Type/Model (7-character) is "interrogated", is when you run SU.
If you don't run SU, you wouldn't even need that info at all!
When you swap a mobo, you normally put back the original Type/Model/SerialNo from that laptop onto the 'new' mobo.
In your case, you should put the Type/Model from the Firewire machine in there, so both are the same.
The other infos, like CPU-number and mobo serial number can also be updated, but are totally irrelevant, and you could leave those blank, or use whatever is already there.
Besides, how often do you run SU? Unless you are a freak, you leave things alone, as long as it all works fine.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

The hard disk (or Windows for that matter) NEVER looks at the Type/model/serial number.

Provided the hardware in both laptops is mostly identical (except for GPU RAM-size and Firewire) you can swap that HD to your heart's content.

[jacb]

OK to close the logic gap between us ..... let me attack the problem this way.

Lets change the game and say I wanted to simply upgrade the hard disk on a working R40. I wanted to fit a larger hard disk and "Ghost" the contents of my original (small) hard disk to the new (large) hard disk.

It is well known that the new hard disk must be formatted in the PC in which it will run (see this link for more background) or it will not boot. Some say that the BIOS information is looked at when the drive is formatted. If I change my motherboard, then the BIOS will also be changed and the drive would not boot, BUT, The hardware maintenance manual tells us to only update the serial number and it is my belief that this is what the hard disk looks for when booting.

It is also my belief that if I simply plug my existing hard drive in to the new PC it will not boot. I also believe that if I copy the entire 16 digit serial number it will boot but the system update may install the wrong drivers. What I don’t know is what would happen if I leave the Type and Model numbers the same and only change the 7 digit serial number? Will it boot and if so would the system update still install the correct drivers?

I guess I will just have to try it ..... unless somebody knows and saves me the trouble.

Thanks again

[RealBlackStuff]

I'm not going to explain this a third time

[jacb]

I'm not going to explain this a third time

Thank you RealBlackStuff for your posts.

You say that you are not going to explain this a third time ..... my personal feeling is that you haven’t fully stopped to consider my questions. Admittedly you have kindly repeated your answer but that doesn’t change my feeling that you are not fully considering the issues at hand.

I really don’t want to be rude - but please read my questions again (particularly my last post) and take just a little more time to consider what is actually happening/you are being asked. My last post did ask questions which are different from my original questions and they are definitely not addressed by your previous answers.

Please don’t take umbrage ... I do really value your input and knowledge.

[virge]

Just swap the motherboard and move the HDD over. The serial number/model number/etc. information doesn't matter. It could be gibberish or blank, or correct... it only matters if you use Thinkvantage System Update.

[RealBlackStuff]

Thank you, virge!

[jacb]

Just swap the motherboard and move the HDD over. The serial number/model number/etc. information doesn't matter. It could be gibberish or blank, or correct... it only matters if you use Thinkvantage System Update.

Thanks Virge

But I want to use two R40's with a single hard drive (move the hard drive between them). I beleive that the hard drive will not boot in a pc that it wasnt formated in. So simply moving the hard drive will only allow it to boot in one of the two PC's.

How do I get it to boot in two R40's AND keep the system update installing the correct drivers

[ajkula66]

Honestly, shifting one hard drive between two R40s (assuming original IBM load of XP) is quite doable, and wouldn't cause much of a grief one way or another.

I'm shifting drives between machines that are a lot more different all the time, and it works.

Hard drive WILL boot in a ThinkPad that it wasn't formatted in, once again, assuming original load and not a vanilla version of OS.

I've moved one hard drive through at least 30 T43/p units with no issues.

[jacb]

OK ..... that’s great news. All this is in preparation of the new (second-Hand) R40 arriving.

I assumed that since people had such trouble with disk cloning when the drive wasn’t formatted in the destination PC (disk would not boot) and I would therefore have the same issues. I guess I will try just inserting the disk and see if it works.

I will report back in a week or so.

Thanks again

[rkawakami]

It's possible that the people you see having problems with "Ghost'ed" drives is that when they install a cloned hard drive in a system which has different enough hardware from the donor system, some versions of Windows will choke because it thinks it's now being illegally copied onto another computer. With mostly identical systems, you shouldn't have that much problems moving a single hard drive between two different systems (motherboards). Doesn't matter that the system serial numbers, systemboard number, the UUIDs, the ethernet MAC addresses, or even the BIOS revisions are different. However, try plugging that R40 hard drive into a T23 and you may find yourself looking at a "blue screen of death".

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP ... rification

Note: I know that I'm probably not addressing your question(s) about the System Update process. I don't use it myself since I download whatever drivers or updates I need manually. If your systems are different in the respect that one has Firewire and the other doesn't, then simply download the Firewire support when the hard drive is in that system and it will be deactivated when it's moved to the other system which doesn't have Firewire. If and when you move the drive back, then Windows should detect the "new" hardware.

[jacb]

Thanks Ray

I will do nothing - just insert the old drive in the new R40 and see what happens, fingers crossed.

The sort of problem that I was referring to can be found here http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ilit=ghost

Best regards