T23 safe mode vs regular mode RAM

[burns334]

Ray, I did not get a chance last night to investigate but I don't think I heard any variation in speed but will listen more closely. It seemed (the other day) to boot further along if I applied pressure to the cover on the RAM, ie squezzing the left front corner between the thumb and forefingers. The last time it was running it bombed when moving it from the couch to the chair. Ray, stay in touch, thanks a million, I really want to save this old guy, I think it is still a very good machine. It was used for email and surfing and was more than adequate.

[rkawakami]

The variation of fan speed is very hard to miss. It cycles from almost zero speed, to full speed in about two or three seconds. It only occurs when the system is first turned on. I recently had a T23 develop this problem (after at least a year of being used on a desk) but it started out by randomly freezing up at times. System would remain powered on, screen was still active but no control over the keyboard/trackpoint. The only thing to do was to hold the power button and turn the system off. During one of the re-boots, I detected the surging fan so I pulled the disk drive out and put it into another T23.

I've seen several problem T23s over the years. Most of them are/were affected by the loose inductor issue, although there was one which had a problem with the legs of a crystal developing cracks in the solder joint. That system initially powered up but did not fully boot unless pressure was applied to the front left corner. When it would boot, the system froze as soon as the pressure was removed, but would resume running again if pressure was re-applied. There have also been a couple with bad solder joints in the memory slots. In short, if you are going to attempt to diagnose the system, you should probably be looking for defective solder connections.

[burns334]

Ray, do you remove most of the FRU's and work on the motherboard while it is in the lower half of the case?

[rkawakami]

Well, if it's the inductors on the bottom side of the motherboard, then everything comes out of the base (LCD/lid assembly stays intact) because you have to completely remove the motherboard. If the problem is with the Y6 crystal, then that can be looked at after the speaker assembly is unscrewed (no need to pull the motherboard as that particular crystal is on top).

[burns334]

Ray, I fired it up early today and when I push the start button I have 4 lights come on momentarily and them just the last one on the right. The fan runs steady, no change in speed but nothing else happens. I do not hear the hard drive being accessed. I put in a bootable CD and not much difference, it went to CD drive and I heard a few clicks and a spin up but that's it. No splash screens, just black screen.

TIA Peter

[RealBlackStuff]

There's another big rectangular inductor, on the top left corner (under the CPU fan), which occasionally comes loose.
Check that as well.
Also, try connecting an external monitor, maybe your LCD is not working properly.
And then there's always the PC Doctor .
Ray hosts an .ISO image for all T2x systems and is available here: http://www.kawakami-ca.com/ibm_t2x/ibm_t22_pcdiag.iso
(Burn this the same as the previous Memtest)
If you are going to keep your T23 alive, invest a few dollars in a floppy drive. They're cheap on eBay, such as here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-UltraB ... 0256426673

[rkawakami]

A general failure to completely power up (system turns on but no life on the screen - internal or external, fan normal, no apparent boot sounds or actions) can sometimes be caused by a defective MiniPCI card. For the T23, that's the modem or modem/wireless combo card in the bay just to the left of the large IBM label on the bottom. Try removing the card and see if that helps.

The inductor that's located next to the CPU, when it's loose, usually causes a totally dead system but do check it anyway.

[burns334]

There's another big rectangular inductor, on the top left corner (under the CPU fan), which occasionally comes loose.
Check that as well.
Also, try connecting an external monitor, maybe your LCD is not working properly.
And then there's always the PC Doctor .
Ray hosts an .ISO image for all T2x systems and is available here: http://www.kawakami-ca.com/ibm_t2x/ibm_t22_pcdiag.iso
(Burn this the same as the previous Memtest)
If you are going to keep your T23 alive, invest a few dollars in a floppy drive. They're cheap on eBay, such as here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-UltraB ... 0256426673

RBS, what do I need a floppy drive for when I can use a zip drive in the usb port?

[RealBlackStuff]

BIOS updates, PC Doctor, Hardware Maintenance, the warm fuzzy feeling that you have an almost historical piece of hardware...
You're bound to get more of these oldies but goldies...

[burns334]

I really appreciate all the help on this board, everyone seems so friendly, I never see any flaming, how pleasant. I feel like I am taking baby steps maybe cause I am chicken to open it up but I digress.

RBS, I guess you mean that all these programs boot off of a floppy and consequently we can diagnose a system without windows running?

Ray, I bought this T23 years ago on ebay and the Wireless did not work or I thought there was no wifi card but anyway I put a PCI card in the slot and that's how I used it. Well I opened the little access door on the back and found a mini pci adapter (with no antenna wires) and a ethernet daughter board installed. I removed them both and the PCI card and there were no changes when I tried to boot up and nothing new. I also moved the RAM around and when the RAM is in the front slot I get the 1331 beeps when in the rear slot I don't get any beeps but still it sits there with a blank screen, fan running and 1 green light. I do not hear anything from the hard drive. Is it now time to start opening up and looking for bad joints and loose inductors.

[RealBlackStuff]

Yes, all those pgms (and many more) boot from floppy.
The drive will fit in any Thinkpad that has an Ultrabay 2000 slot.
You mention a wifi card in a PCI slot, it's probably a Cardbus or PCMCIA wifi card?
Just for the record, what is the TYPE/MODEL of your T23? Looks like: TYPE 2647-4MU, on a sticker on the bottom of the T23.

[burns334]

RBS, I flipped the unit over and there are no stickers or numbers, totally blank so I am not sure how to figure this out. When I look at the online manual it seems to be unlisted configuration. When I remove the door on the back I find 2 cards, one that snaps in like RAM and the other has 2 screws holding it in place. The Mini PCI adapter (snap in like RAM) card has no tabs for the antenna so that confuses me as I do not see a config like that one. The card has milar tape covering both sides with no way to the surface of the card.

[rkawakami]

The normal location for the TYPE label on the T23 is here: http://www.kawakami-ca.com/images/t23_type_label.jpg (circled in blue)

You can also get the TYPE number from the BIOS (requires at least one good memory module installed). Press and hold the F1 key when turning on the system until you see the "Entering IBM BIOS Setup Utility" message on the screen. After a few seconds you should see the Setup screen (barring any BIOS password which may have been installed). On the line "System-unit serial number", the first SEVEN characters are the system's TYPE number: 26478NU, for example. Assuming that there's been no FrankenPad measures taken (swapping of motherboards, lid assemblies, etc), the TYPE number will give us a good indication on how the system was configured. You can then shut off the system by holding the power button for a second or two. If you can't get the LCD to work, then try attaching an external monitor to the VGA port on the back of the system (prior to turning the laptop on) and see if you get video there.

From the sounds of you moving the memory module around and getting the 1-3-3-1 beep code, I'd say that your system has a problem with the soldering on the front slot. It's somewhat of a common problem but not as frequent as the loose inductors (in my experience anyway).

[burns334]

Ray, no luck with holding F1 key, no video. Will try with external monitor next week as I am on the road until New Years eve.

[burns334]

Ray or RBS, I know I don't know my exact model number as I can not boot the machine but are they several motherboards for the T23. On ebay I see the 26P8218 (must be the P/N)seems to be called out a lot and then some guys just call it a 2647. How many different flavors are there? Just trying to think ahead here and if I can get a tested board for $20-$30 bucks it could be worth it. Several starting at $0.99 with $10 shipping.

[RealBlackStuff]

Any T23 mobo with a part# 26P7997 (old number), 26P8218 (most common) or 12P3770 will work fine.
2647 is not enough of an identification and could also be for a T20/T21/T22 ! So don't buy those!

[burns334]

The normal location for the TYPE label on the T23 is here: http://www.kawakami-ca.com/images/t23_type_label.jpg (circled in blue)

You can also get the TYPE number from the BIOS (requires at least one good memory module installed). Press and hold the F1 key when turning on the system until you see the "Entering IBM BIOS Setup Utility" message on the screen. After a few seconds you should see the Setup screen (barring any BIOS password which may have been installed). On the line "System-unit serial number", the first SEVEN characters are the system's TYPE number: 26478NU, for example. Assuming that there's been no FrankenPad measures taken (swapping of motherboards, lid assemblies, etc), the TYPE number will give us a good indication on how the system was configured.

Ray, I was able to boot it up while squeezing both sides at the same time ie top to bottom by the caplocks key and top to bottom by the enter key. I got into the bios screen and it says 1.13 mhz but no serial number, it is blank so it looks like she is not a virgin. I think I am ready to take off the keyboard and palm rest and start looking around.

[rkawakami]

Here's what a T23 BIOS screen should look like (minus the edits I've done to remove some information):

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/images/t23_bios_screen.jpg

If the "System-unit serial number" and/or the "System board serial number" fields are completely blank and if every character in the "UUID" line is "F", then that usually means that some tampering has been done on the motherboard. System integrity at that point may be suspect since it generally means that somebody has taken a soldering iron to it already.

Having the put pressure on the left side of the system in order to get it to boot, typically means that one or both inductors on the bottom side of the motherboard have come loose. What usually works for me in those cases is to press upwards with the fingers of my left hand under the PCMCIA slots and at the same time, push down on the front left corner of the palmrest; in other words, attempting to bend the front left corner of the system.

edit: It can also mean that some other parts have come loose from the motherboard. A badly soldered crystal also prevented one T23 that I have from booting unless I put some pressure on the case.

[burns334]

If the "System-unit serial number" and/or the "System board serial number" fields are completely blank and if every character in the "UUID" line is "F", then that usually means that some tampering has been done on the motherboard. System integrity at that point may be suspect since it generally means that somebody has taken a soldering iron to it already.

I took another look at the bios screen and the ""System-unit serial number" and the "System board serial number" fields are completely blank but the UUID and Mac address look normal. Why do those come up blank after someone has tinkered with the board? With a twist around the front corner it starts to boot with a little pink on first splash screen, then normal color and then usually hangs up unless pressure is put on both sides of the unit.

[RealBlackStuff]

You also need to replace the CCFL in your LCD, or get a new/used LCD.
http://www.lcdparts.net/howto/troublesh ... CCFL1.aspx

[rkawakami]

If the UUID field is populated with all "F", then somebody has replaced a component on the motherboard. The MAC address is scanned from the ethernet daughter card and as long as there's one present and operational, it should look "normal". The System-unit and System board serial numbers can be blanked out using a utility program provided by IBM. About the only reason that I can come up with for someone purposely erasing those fields (and removing the serial number label on the bottom of the system) would be to prevent identification of the unit. In other words, to hide the fact that it's been stolen.

[burns334]

I guess I never gave it a thought when I got it off of ebay, it was so long ago I don't even remember having that cross my mind but when you mention it it makes sense. I never looked for sn or in the bios before. I remember paying $700 for it so it sure was a long time ago.

[RealBlackStuff]

Ouch!!!

[burns334]

On second thought maybe it was only $300

[burns334]

Well I've finally stripped the unit down to the motherboard, will I ever get it back together? The first thing that I noticed is one of the standoffs that is soldered to the board is broken off the board, is that important? Does it complete a ground plane or anything? It is the one in Ray's pictures at zone 5E, it has blue or purple ink on it.

http://www.rkawakami.net/ibm_t2x/mobo_top_72_legend.jpg

I've started looking at the board with 5x and don't see anything suspicious, all joints appear to have normal amount of solder and no cracks visible. And then I saw it, the inside of the large inductor at A1, which is missing in Ray's pictures is all melted on the inside, is this one toast?

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2442/m ... ductor.jpg

[rkawakami]

Yeah, I think that it could be the source of your problem. It certainly should NOT look like that. Here's some info on it:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 03#p354003

[Neil]

The first thing that I noticed is one of the standoffs that is soldered to the board is broken off the board, is that important?

I don't think that standoff has to be soldered. It falls out of most of the T23 board I've removed. It's just a standoff for one of the keyboard screws, so just put it back in the hole when you re-assemble.

And then I saw it, the inside of the large inductor at A1, which is missing in Ray's pictures is all melted on the inside, is this one toast?

Hmmm, melted electronics is never a good thing. I wonder what caused it to melt? Even if you replace the part with a new one, what is going to prevent the same thing from happening to it the first time power is applied, if there is a fault elsewhere?

[burns334]

Neil, well it is close to the processor and the fan, maybe a fan cleaning and some new thermal grease will help out?

[burns334]

Looking at a photo on Digikey shows the new part is not that much different.

http://media.digikey.com/photos/Sumida% ... R6NC-H.jpg

The piece is not symetrical, on the 2 tab side you can see the coil and other the other side there is raised plastic with no view, now I'm confused.

[RealBlackStuff]

That inductor is not melted. I looked at 5 T23 mobos I have lying around here, and they all look like that.