Advanced dock +t61 + win7 + Pci-e gfx

[eyeland]

As I didn't find the info I need in any of the other threads about this subject I start a new trhead. I f my question has already beed adressed, plz tell me and I'll move this post to the appropriate thread.
As indicated in the title my setup is, T61, win7, advanced dock, pcie gfx.
I have been running a fireGL 3300 succesfully so far.
As the advanced dock is too noisy I mistakingly thought that the fan on the 3300 would be enough so I disconnected the psu fan (;)) which led to the death of my 3300.
Now I am looking for a new gfx and thus, a list of supported cards would be sweet. Question is: what limits the number of useable cards? The thinkpad model? the operating system? or the dock itself?
And furthermore, pros/cons of passive cooling on the gfx?
I have been looking at a few options of passively cooled cards:

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6814121310 (one of the cheapest choices it seems)
http://www.edbpriser.dk/Product/Details.aspx?pid=672453 ( interesting thing about this one is that is claims to be PCI-express x1 and not x16 - I read in another thread that the bandwith on the pciE port on the dock is limited to PciE x1 which made me think that maybe I sould go for a gfx that is x1 as well?)
any and all replies are welcome
Happy new year
Rune

[eyeland]

The other threads on this topic seems slightly dead and I didn't find the answers I need. Please point me towards the proper thread if my questions have been answered elsewhere.
I just started looking into upgrading my dock again and I could use a few tips.
From other threads, it would seem that it is possible to use:
(i) Certain Radeon Cards (like 4350 & 4550) that have a low enough Power consumption (<50W?) to be used "natively" in the dock, or with a Pci riser card in case the card physically to to big for the dock.
(ii) Certain Radeons cards (like 5770) with a bigger power consumption, using an external PSU (and the riser card solution)
It seems then, that the cards that will NOT work, includes:
(a) Most or all Nvdia Cards (like 7800GT) due to a Pci x16-> x1 scaling issue?.
(b) Any card using more power than the dock can supply while lacking the option to connect an external PSU
I need help devicing a theoretical list based on the assumptions above.
At the moment, I am looking at a few cards that sell for next to nothing, in order to try the mod and get a bit more performance than offered by the intel Gfx in my T61
I am looking at HD4550, HD5450, HD 5550, HD4650, HD4670 and HD5670
as they all sell for less than 100$ in DK
I am looking at Sapphire, XFX and Asus, and most of these cards (exept 5670) are passively cooled.
The question now, is, to figure out which cards will work natively as (i), which ones will work with a PSU (ii), and finally, which ones that will not work at all (b).
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Note: the primary purpose is not gaming but rather Photoshop, Premiere, Blue-ray and such, whereas I do a bit of occasional EvEonline/wow gaming (and yes, these games DO require much more than an onboard gpu

[tporter]

My personal observations on this setup:

1) Power consumption must be < 53W max.
2) Width <= 160mm and single slot cooling system.
3) Passive cooling IMHO isn't a good idea because of inadequate airfow inside adv. dock.
4) If your laptor has dedicated graphics card, external card must use the same drivers as internal one.
For T61/p - Nvidia cards, for T60/p - ATI cards. In other cases, it will not work at all/not work in WinXP.

For T61 a good setup may be http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814500176
I'm thinking to buy this card...

[eyeland]

For T61/p - Nvidia cards, for T60/p - ATI cards. In other cases, it will not work at all/not work in WinXP.

Hmm, how about T61 with intel onboard GMA?
Anything to considder?
I had it working with a ATI FireGl card so I guess that any ATI card should be ok driver wise?
I seem unable to get my 7800GT to work in the dock.
As to heat, I was thinking of getting a passively cooled card and run it outside the dock with the Riser cable for cooling.

[tporter]

Hmm, how about T61 with intel onboard GMA?

In theory, any card will work fine.
But some don't work anyway
I guess there may be a problem for some (especially old) cards to work in pci-e x1 mode.
7800GT is old and hot card, its perfomance is lower than modern cheap GT430

Riser card is fine, but at fisrt think of its cable legth... Not more 10-13cm.

[caseyse]

Reading the posts from others who were successful installing a 4650, I purchased a 4650 card (SAPPHIRE 100253HDMI Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2) for my T60P which gave me memory errors and blue screens in Win-7 64 running Aero (i.e., pushing the card.) If I turned Aero effects off, the card was fine. I'm more an X Windows/Linux user, and everything had worked well using X Server.

I have a T7600 which draws more power than the traditional T60P so I suspect I may have crossed over the power threshold with the 4650 card (although I'm also running an Intel X25-E SSD, which draws less power.)

I then upgraded to a faster HD5570 card which I should have purchased over the 4650 due to its higher performance and lower power consumption. This card makes some added fan noise, but has been working well in my Advanced Dock. The only negative with the 5570 card over the 4650 card is that it uses a different version of ATI's Linux driver which prevents me from booting independent of the Advanced Dock unless I change my xorg.conf to use the Vesa driver.

For those of you using either X or MS Windows with an Advanced Dock and a T60P, I would recommend a 5570 card. One last bit of caution...the card I purchased was made by Asus. I'm not sure if this was a "reference" configuration, but it had a capacitor on the back side of the card that contacted/bridged itself against the steel heat shield on the PCIe Advanced Dock PCIe cover. You'll know you have this problem when you get no graphics when booting. I placed a strip of insulating rubber across the top of the capacitor and the problem was resolved.

[eyeland]

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Finally a report of the 5570 actually working in the dock!
Is it me or does it sound odd that aero would "push" the system that much?
If the 4650 couldn't handle aero, what COULD it handle?

[caseyse]

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Finally a report of the 5570 actually working in the dock!
Is it me or does it sound odd that aero would "push" the system that much?
If the 4650 couldn't handle aero, what COULD it handle?

It wasn't that the 4650 couldn't handle Aero, it was the added power consumption of the card in my particular T60P configuration (i.e., T7600 processor) that wasn't working. This particular card might have received parts from the "not sure if good" bin when being assembled, so I can't say this represents all 4650 cards, but I wasn't willing to experiment further. I do know that the 5570 card uses less power, provides higher performance than a 4650, and works fine in my Advanced Dock.

[eyeland]

I understand, will give it a try as soon as I get a few unforeseen issues with my t61 fixed
DO you draw alot of power on your usb ports in the dock?
I assume it would be recommendable to get a powered USB hub for my USB chain (mouse/keyboard/phone/webcam/DSLR/Midikeys/midicontroller/externaldrive/USBreadyboost)?

[crashnburn]

Interesting.

I am guessing the Adv Dock limits PCIe to 1x.

Lets say I dont use the Dock. Whats the 1x / 2x / 16x rating of the PCI-e express slot on the side of the T61? (Lets say for other purposes / devices)

[tporter]

Interesting.

I am guessing the Adv Dock limits PCIe to 1x.

Lets say I dont use the Dock. Whats the 1x / 2x / 16x rating of the PCI-e express slot on the side of the T61? (Lets say for other purposes / devices)

PCI-e 1.0 1x also
you can check specs of expresscard slot here

[eyeland]

From the DIY vidock thread I was under the impression that 2x is achievable?
Anyways.. I ended up forbidding myself to go further into this as I realized that it would bring back my mmorpg addictions
Will probably start looking into it again in a month when I have finished my dissertation, but please do share your experiences Would be nice with some theorycrafting/experiences regarding optimal cards for the dock in terms of powerdraw and real-life benefit.