T410 switchable graphics?

[yak]

This is page 136 of the T410 HMM:


which can be found here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-74470

It clearly names the version with GPU as "switchable". I consider HMMs to be a much more reliable source than Lenovo's marketing pages as they are most probably prepared by some person close to the engineering team.

[Harryc]

It clearly names the version with GPU as "switchable". I consider HMMs to be a much more reliable source than Lenovo's marketing pages as they are most probably prepared by some person close to the engineering team.

Well, it shows switchable/discrete and non-switchable/integrated, so wouldn't that imply that both models will be available at some point....

[yak]

I just read the thread on a German forum where people already having T410 say they see no sign of switchable graphics. Intel graphics are not listed in device manager, there is no BIOS option to switch and no option in Power Manager menu. Well, the menu was there but was removed with the latest update.

So I'm not sure anymore. All this is very confusing.

[rippeer]

It stil saying nvidia SG on the canadian page

[yak]

I just checked Lenovo Japan (using Google Translator) and the comparison table lists all new T models (T410/T410s/T510) as having switchable graphics on select models:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 23tabstart

The configurator gives a choice between "Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 5700MHD, AMT" and "NVIDIA NVS 3100M graphics (256MB), AMT".

-- added --
oh well, I wouldn't believe it as it lists T400s as having switchable graphics too

[ausmike]

While Surfing ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, saw something that might be 'instesting read'...


http://zabadab.eu/switchablegraphics/#download

umm class-action ???

[rippeer]

Class action lawsuit becuase this guy hates lenovo and made his own switching program?

[bill bolton]

http://zabadab.eu/switchablegraphics/#download

That was a real hoot.

He clearly has some strongly held beliefs, and hasn't taken any effort to understand what functionality Power Manager actually delivers

Cheers,

Bill B.

[ausmike]

[quote="bill bolton......He clearly has some strongly held beliefs, and hasn't taken any effort to understand what functionality Power Manager actually delivers
..[/quote]

Bill....
Well I kinda agree ..... with TV PM = is not 'doing much". However its nicely 'packaged' with "Fn+F5" for 'switching Wireless Options and also for "On- Screen Dsplay" for things like Volume etc etc on most TP's models. So it has its VALUE !!
DRESCRETE & SWITCHABLE graphics is something Lenovo(lemono-vo for some!!)needs to have a DETAIL layout at all times and not use missleading and or MARKETING HYPE etc. I do however agree to some people's view = WHY stop the (switcable) function(s) with a DRIVER/HARD-CODED way? seems strange to me also !!

BTW; Bill ......you moved to my neck-of-the-woods?? when?>

[yak]

The Power Manager may not be doing much in terms of data processing and have a somewhat bloated UI, but it provides access to unique ThinkPad features like switchable graphics for one (the guy just took one of the Power Manager's DLLs and made his own UI). And what about battery thresholds or detailed battery information including power consumption and cells condition? Where do I find that in Windows?

[dr_st]

Totally agree with yak. I have Thinkpads that don't have switchable graphics anyways, so I make sure to use the older version of the Power Manager, which give me all the functionality minus the bloated UI.

[ausmike]

""...indicating the T410 (non-s) has switchable graphics....""


Hello Everyone....

I happen to be looking at something else and came across this << might be relevant to this "GRAPHICs" issue >>.... if anyone is instrested; maybe of some use ...



>quote.....

Version: 3.12
Release Date: 2010/01/08


File link File size File description

6iu419ww.exe 13,326,872 Power Manager


6iu419ww.txt 16,613 README for Power Manager



Additional information

Contents
Summary of Changes
Installation Instructions
Uninstallation Instructions
Determining which Version is Installed



Summary of Changes

Version 3.12

(Fix) Fixed an issue where a switchable graphics was displayed wrongly.
(Fix) Fixed an issue where Power Manager uninstallation process might stop.
Get a complete list of changes fixed by previous updates.
<end quote>

here is the URL:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-70601

[thinkxi]

I just received my T410 two days ago:

Here are the facts:

- CPU i7-620m 2,67GHz
- 4GB RAM
- 14" LED-Backlight, 1440x900
- NVidia NVS3100M => switchable graphics!! (can be switched in Win7 on the battery symbol using context menu)
- UMTS (no GPS integrated)
- multi-touch mousepad (gestures can be used in Win7)

any more informations required?

[yak]

- NVidia NVS3100M => switchable graphics!! (can be switched in Win7 on the battery symbol using context menu)

Wow, hold on here. Are you sure? A lot of sources (including some places on Lenovos websites) have said it doesn't have switchable. Even guys from a German ThinkPads forum that have a couple of T410.

Do you see the Intel graphics in Device Manager? What's the power draw shown in Power Manager when you're running on power saving profile (not high performance), half-bright display and WiFi-off? Does it change when you switch between the graphics? What version of the Power Manager do you have?

Other than that, what do you think of build and display quality?

[BrokenArrow]

thinkxi, you should update your PM and the option will disappear...

pm55 chipsets (which are used in the t410) do not support the integrated feature.

[yak]

pm55 chipsets (which are used in the t410) do not support the integrated feature.

Hmm, I didn't know that. Had a look around and indeed, the Intel datasheet says the mobile PM55 does not support integrated graphics. It seems that the integrated-only version of T410 uses a different chipset, the QM57, which supports integrated solution (otherwise the laptop would have to way of displaying anything ). The same chipset seems to be in T510 in models with dedicated graphics, that's why it should support switching.

If that's true, I'll probably go for a T410 with integrated graphics. I just wanted dedicated so I can switch to it when needed. Since I get a laptop for work, I would be running on integrated most of the time to keep it cool, quiet and improve battery life. I rather not have dedicated at all then run on it all the time. Would be nice to see some battery life comparisons first though.

Here's part of the datasheet with relevant fields marked:

[swerrrvin]

yak, mind posting a link to the german forum with information about T410?

Thanks.

[thinkxi]

BrokenArrow,

you're right.

Had PM 3.11a installed, Just installed PM 3.12.. now no switchable graphics available in the context menu.

In the device manager only the NVidia is listed.

[yak]

yak, mind posting a link to the german forum with information about T410?

Here you go:
http://www.thinkpad-forum.de/thinkpad-h ... -zum-t410/

It all boils down to the fact that the switch option disappears after upgrading the Power Manager and the laptop always uses dedicated graphics. They also mention flex and sometimes even creaks right to the left of the touchpad, close to the keyboard. They say the lid is quite flexible when pressed under the display (probably because as we know it's ABS plastic now with no lid roll-cage) and that the fan is running constantly. Other than that they say it's great, very nice keyboard and all.

--added--
Another interesting thing about the chipsets. The excerpt I posted shows the PM55 has no AMT whereas (at least on the US site) Lenovo lists the T410 with dedicated graphics as having AMT. There are two chipsets with AMT (QM57, QS57) and both support integrated graphics. Go figure.

[thinkxi]

Having a look into the device manager:

Chipset: QM57: Intel(R) QM57 Express Chipset LPC Interface Controller

also when checking
- TPM 1.2 there is the chipset QM57 listed
- DMA-Controller: QM57 is listed

so there is no PM55 in my T410

Model No: 2522-3FG

[BrokenArrow]

in that case,
did LENOVO locked the option of switching between the graphix on the bios level?
will they ever release a bios version which unlocks this option?

[thinkxi]

Found nothing in the BIOS to select graphics mode..

And there is an Intel(R) AMT entry in the BIOS! So the chipset has AMT

So it really looks like LENOVO locked the option...

[yak]

For anyone looking for a sneak peak inside the new systems, the Lenovo service videos are online, I'm not sure since when.

http://www.lenovoservicetraining.com

Browsing the T410 section right now. The overview videos use wrong pictures sometimes, of a T400s. The remove/replace one seem to show some prototype T410 model.

Some interesting things I saw so far.
1. The overview video says the T410 uses QM57 and HM57 chipsets.
2. A sticker on the CPU says "Hybrid WXGA+".

[tweakfreak1988]

I have an I7 T410 on order with the nvidia graphics chip. It is 'in process' to what seems indefinitely but it does say the following:

60Y8395 SBB NVDNVS SWTGR256MB-AMT,TPM

I presume SWTGR means Switchable Graphics. My theory with the whole fiasco is that Lenovo hasn't figured out how to make it work properly. Hopefully that means that a bios updated and a software update takes care of things. If it doesn't work properly, then its a deal breaker for me. I would be willing to swap with integrated graphics model if they credit me the difference. I am, however, hesitant to open the box in fear that Lenovo won't work with me after it's been open. It will be their fault though if the unit doesn't operate as stated in various parts of their literature about the product whether technical or marketing.

[ausmike]

Ordered a T410 with discrete graphics, ..... angry customers.

FYI..... the 4 x T410-Cto's that we had come in (might be the first ones off the prod line) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,are/were with the famous 'switchable graphics" didnt WORK!!!. I can confirm this!!

Lenovo has offered to REPLACE WHOLE LAPTOPS with ""a newer updated model"""

These laptops couldnt run the following software:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/in ... eID=123112
http://www.adobe.com/products/creatives ... ollection/

Lenovo (lee-NOOOOOO-vuuuuu as the C level exec are calling this comapny!!) <gulp> is sad for me to see ; has come to this !!!

...hope this makes too many pple upset , however these 'graphics' didnt work in these apps ONLY ! rest seems ok !

Am still drinking TP cool-aide!! ...Cheers Eyevone!

[yak]

They are replacing the laptops because the switching between graphics chip didn't work? I haven't heard of *any* T410 that had this working. Are they going to replace all laptops? This is nuts.

[Navck]

Show us some evidence where this replacement service is being offered.

[ausmike]

............ppppfffffff..... B;lah blah ,,,,,

[JLEN191]

There is no switchable graphics in the T410 or T510. The T410s is the only one that is officially said to have the switchable graphics option.

"Matt Kohut Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

#### — only T410s will have switchable. The rest will be discrete only or integrated only."

source: http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=349

[tweakfreak1988]

So heres the deal folks. I recieved my T410 today with the same symptoms as everyone else. I called support first and they confirmed the unit does not have switchable graphics.

"The U.S. market does not have switchable graphics. Other markets like Canada do have it"

They forwarded me to sales of whom told me I could return it but with a fee. I requested to speak to a manager. We talked briefly, he confirmed that when I ordered it stated 'switchable' and he confirmed with technical support with my case number that indeed the unit does not have switchable graphics.

They offered to refund my order 100% with shipping included. No exchange policy exists. It would take 1-2 business days once recieved to be processed and 8-10 days for my refund to make its way back to my bank account.

----------

What does this mean for me?

1. Be stuck with a unit that eats battery (in which I can't even control the charge thresholds.)
2. Return the current unit and wait another month plus for one with intergrated graphics to arrive.

Regardless I feel cheated. The unit was originally adverstised as switchable and I must suffer the consquences by waiting another month for a different unit because of it. Maybe this warrants an e-mail to palmisano.... but lenovo is not part of IBM anymore. Is there anythign else I can do to expedite the process?