T410 Configuration Recommendations?

[hiengu]

Hi,

I have an 8 year old T41 so am due for an upgrade. I was considering a Macbook but I'm now leaning towards a Thinkpad T410. I mainly do Software development and video editing (been using desktop due to old t41 laptop being slow for software dev). I would like a laptop that can also power two 24" external 1080p LCD monitors.

I was considering the following specs but am unsure about the reliability of the 128GB SSD (model # isn't indicated and the size suggests it's not the well regarded Intel X25-M). The other thing is I'm not sure if I need to upgrade the System Graphics to Discrete NVIDIA NVS 3100m. I believe the ThinkPad Mini Dock Plus Series 3 can output to two monitors and has a built in video controller so was hoping to not need the NVIDIA graphics due to possible heat and battery consumption. I also like the T400s specs since it's slimmer and lighter but don't see any for sale on Lenovo's Canada site.

Here are the specs I was considering:

Processor: Intel Core i7-620M Processor (2.66GHz 3MBL3 1066MHz) Operating system: Genuine Windows 7 Ultimate 64
Operating system Language: Genuine Windows 7 Ultimate 64 - English
Display type: 14.1" WXGA+ LED
System graphics: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD with Intel Advanced Management Technology Modem: Yes - AMoM
Total memory: 8 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (2 DIMM)
Keyboard: US English Keyboard
Pointing device: UltraNav with FPR
Camera: Integrated Camera Module 2.0MP
Hard drive: 128GB Solid State Drive
Optical device: DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
System expansion slot: Open Slot
Battery: 6cell HC, LI Battery TWSL
Power cord: 65W AC Adapter; NA, LA, (2pin)
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300
Language pack: English US Publication

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Huey

[zhenya]

The SSD you can select OEM is a Samsung drive. Not a terrible choice, but it is not nearly as fast as the top of the line Intel's and a select few OCZ drives with the Indillix controllers. I imagine for the price they are charging you, you could buy an 80GB Intel drive for that price or less. Unfortunately the next step up in the Intel line is 160GB and ~$500 US. If 80GB is not enough space for you, you can buy a SATA expansion bay that goes in place of the DVD drive, where you could place the stock drive the T410 ships with.

What are you using the computer for? There is limited information about either the integrated or discrete graphics chips available in the T410, but the one site I found that ranked them did not seem to indicate a great deal of difference between the two. Unless you are sure you have a dedicated graphics need, save the money.

Lenovo does not allow us to select 8GB RAM standard. How much are they charging you for that? Again, unless you are certain you need that much RAM, the 4GB sticks are currently very expensive and there are few people who need that much memory. Do you? Even so, you may be able to purchase it separately for some savings.

The T410s has been pulled from Lenovo's site, I understand due to manufacturing shortages. I too am waiting for it to come back in stock, because you get everything you get in the T410 (with the exception of a 1.8" HDD - also waiting for the Intel X18's to come back on the market - and the inability to choose a faster processor) in a much slimmer, sleeker package.

Also, yes, the dock you are interested in will drive two external monitors. It is not my understanding that it has a built in video card, just that it has the most options for outputting. The more basic dock will also output to 2 monitors, but only 1 via dvi, the second is vga or display port.

[hiengu]

Do you know if I need the discrete graphics to power two external 24" monitors? I'll be purchasing the mini-dock. I'd be saving a fair bit (~$200) by going with the Intel graphics. I have heard bad things about the NVIDIA graphics so just want to be sure.

[zhenya]

I cannot say for 100% certain, as I have not yet used these new models, but I have not seen a Lenovo laptop in recent times that could not drive two monitors simultaneously. It's not that much of a strain on the video card to do so, so I doubt there would be an issue. A sales rep should be able to answer definitively for you, though. Note that there are two similar docks - the Mini Dock Series 3 which has 1 DVI, 1 VGA, and 1 display port. You can use any 2 of those and the screen on the laptop will be shut off when using two external monitors. There is also the Mini Dock Plus Series 3 which has 2 DVI, 1 VGA, and 2 display ports, plus an esata port. This also can run up to 2 external monitors simultaneously.

Unfortunately one of the disadvantages of buying totally brand new tech like this is that we don't know all the benefits and limitations of each specific option, as there just aren't any out there yet for people to be working with and testing. In any case, both of the new graphics chip options are significant steps up from the integrated graphics on the previous models, so I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[hiengu]

I just got off the phone with Lenovo.

They recommended I go with the NVIDIA discrete graphics if I want to power dual external 24" monitors but there is no guarantee if the LCD off of the laptop will also work for a triple display.

Also the SSD is Lenovo branded and has been tested for the last 6 months so will be faster than the 7200rpm drive. They used to have a 160GB Intel drive but had issues so that offering was pulled. Unfortunately for us Canadians the 128GB SSD has a 6 week delay. Hmmm, seems like a long wait.

I'm also thinking I'd rather go for the 6 cell instead of 9 cell since that sits flush with the laptop.

The other thing I'm still debating is whether I should go 4GB or 8GB for Windows 7 Ultimate.

SSD and 8GB is probably overkill for now but I usually hang onto my laptops for a few years and don't like to fiddle with them much.

[zhenya]

I don't agree with that sentiment, but to each their own. If you wanted to be sure, I'd research people using the docks with the T400 models as I'm sure the question has come up there. If people are able to drive two 24" 1920x1200 displays from the integrated graphics of a T400 you will surely have nothing to worry about. The info page for the mini dock plus series 3 at http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 72873.html clearly states that it will drive two external monitors, and when doing so the display on the laptop will be off. This would be the same behavior as previous Thinkpad docks.

Yes, the Lenovo branded SSD will be much faster than the 7200rpm drive, but the Intel ssd will be much faster than the Lenovo ssd. There are some highly technical reasons for this, but it comes down to the fact that only Intel and OCZ with the indilinx controller are able to handle the small, frequent writes that are so common on a drive containing the OS. Also, they are TRIM compatible which is very important in maintaining the drives performance over time. Most OEM drives do not have this, and many are not even firmware upgradable to add this in the future. There are no 'issues' with the Intel drives other than the fact that they are more expensive, less widely available, and they have not courted the OEM market as intensely as Samsung and Toshiba.

How much RAM you get is dependent on what you do with your computer, not what OS you run. If you have a computer you use now, open up the Task Manager when you are up and running with all your normal programs running, and see how much RAM you are using. Extra RAM will just sit idle and not bring you any benefit. RAM is the easiest thing to upgrade down the road, and while 4GB sticks are outrageously expensive now, in another year or so they should be much more affordable.

[hiengu]

What's the advantage of the NVIDIA discrete graphics over the Intel Integrated graphics?

I don't agree with that sentiment, but to each their own. If you wanted to be sure, I'd research people using the docks with the T400 models as I'm sure the question has come up there. If people are able to drive two 24" 1920x1200 displays from the integrated graphics of a T400 you will surely have nothing to worry about. The info page for the mini dock plus series 3 at http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 72873.html clearly states that it will drive two external monitors, and when doing so the display on the laptop will be off. This would be the same behavior as previous Thinkpad docks.

[zhenya]

It's theoretically should have better performance in video games, video rendering, high-definition video playback, etc. It really takes very little graphics card horsepower to display normal office tasks on a couple of screens, even at high resolutions. To some extent, we don't really know what the details of the differences between the cards are because they are both new, so there is very little specific information available. Hence, this advice is general to all video cards.

[T400plus]

All (?)this comments are sentimental.
Simplicity demands that you have what your neighbour does not have so buy all the stuff to make it heavy .

[Shahafg]

very informative answers zhenya, thank you, i learned something new.

[hiengu]

I just placed my T410 order. I decided to go 6 cell since it sits flush. The nVidia discrete graphics since I want to power dual 24" monitors when I get the mini dock later. The 500GB instead of 128GB SSD since I think Lenovo ships the Samsung SSDs but I prefer the Intel X-25M G2 SSDs. I also went with 4GB RAM instead of 8GB RAM since I did a test on my desktop quad core and could not tell a difference with the apps I was using although having 8GB would be great piece of mind.

I was considering an Apple Macbook pro but the 15" is too big and the 13" although nice only had a glossy screen. I also prefer the Thinkpad Trackpoint and had good experiences with my still running 8 year old T41. I do have some concerns with the T410 order in that I heard someone mention that the fan keeps on running at 3600rpm even when IDLE and obviously if there will be any dead pixels or quality issues. I guess we will see. It was a hard decision to not switch to a Mac so hopefully this is the right one.

Intel Core i7-620M Processor (2.66GHz 3MBL3 1066MHz)
Genuine Windows 7 Ultimate 64
14.1" WXGA+ LED
nVidia SG 256MB, AMT
4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (2 DIMM)
UltraNav with FPR
500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
6cell, LI Battery TWSL
Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300
No WWAN support
1 Year Depot/Express Warranty
ThinkPad TrackPoint Cap Collection

Total cost is $1400 CDN shipped.

[Iceman]

How did you get this price?

When I go to the CDN site and price it out it comes to 1834.00 before tax.

[dcast]

hiengu probably used the visaperks discount. Head to visaperks.ca and go through them and you can also use their eCoupon, I ordered the same configuration for about the same price.

[Iceman]

Just went to visaperks.ca. When I choose Lenovo all i get is 'This offer is currently unavailable.'

Looks like that deal is over.

[Txiasaeia]

Iceman, visaperks.ca *always* has a Lenovo sale. The current sale expired today; there will be a new one tomorrow or Tuesday. Fear not!

[hiengu]

Yes, I used the VisaPerks: http://www.visa.ca/visaperks/shopping/Lenovo/index.jsp

I called in to downgrade to the 6 cell option so it turned out to be around $1350 CDN.

I'm thinking of using the EPP discounts to purchase the mini dock.