Smartphone Discussion

[qviri]

One of my best friends from college is a senior executive with them. He's been with the brand from day one. They "used" to own the PDA space per say, but lost it, then in the years since have been up and down largely due to the fierce competition in the segment and their internal struggles. Palm, began as Palm Computing, then was acquired by U.S. Robotics, then later sold to 3Com. Each of these transitions have taken their tool on the company and 3Com has not allocated the funds to that division that it will take for them to succeed in the long run. Now emerging once again with a good product, their success will largely depend on whether they can sell enough to generate the revenues to stand on their own.

Right. Palm's been through a lot, and a lot of the road was downhill. But as far as I can see, the New Palm -- starting around Rubinstein's time -- has been doing pretty well given what they started with.


I'm fairly interested whether RIM will be able to remain relevant in the customer space. Something has to be done with the OS, but historically RIM's been much better at improving and perfecting than at remaking from scratch. The last really new thing to really be successful was the half-QWERTY format, and even there the 8100 was much more successful than the initial 7100. I'm not sure if the OS is going to be fine with just a thorough overhaul, rebuild, and maintenance, or if there has to be a complete rewrite, and if the latter, whether RIM is actually capable of doing it right. It's going to be interesting.

[GomJabbar]

I'm a basic phone kind of guy. The Nextel i60 I had was my favorite.

I just saw this in the news this morning: Samsung unveils Bluetooth 3.0, 802.11n smartphone Wave first for Bada OS too

Here's something else: New Microsoft Mobile OS On Show At Barcelona

[j-dawg]

I have a Nokia N95 8GB. The hardware is phenomenal, but the software is lacking. I will not give it up simply for the hardware, though; calls are clear and loud, as are the speakers, the keypad is easy to use for texting (T9, though), and, most of all for me, the camera is almost as good as a standalone digicam. If they could put the camera from the N95 into an E71, I'd be all over that. The N97 seems like an okay successor, but I've used them and I don't like the keyboard. The N900 is just too big.

If an Android phone would come out with a camera as good as the N95's, I might seriously consider it. Until then, I am a happy camper. I am also interested in the N810 tablet as a "companion" device, but I don't really want to spend the money on something that might not be so great.

[qviri]

Aaaand Windows Phone 7. The name change from Mobile to Phone is "interestingly" timed, but evidently they felt it was necessary -- to distinguish from the old? Engadget seems to agree the 7 is a whole different beast.

[GomJabbar]

More on the Windows phone 7 Series...

Though a long-time player in the smartphone OS market, Windows Mobile is outclassed by its competition. The recent 6.5 release has done little to redress the balance. Windows Mobile is slow, unstable, clunky, and fundamentally not designed for use with fingers. Today at Mobile World Congress, Microsoft showed off its new phone platform for the first time. Everything that we knew and loathed about Windows Mobile is gone. Even the name is different. It's now "Windows Phone 7 Series."
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The Zune HD's user interface is the clear precursor to 7 Series', and many stylistic elements from the media player are carried over to the phone interface.
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To reinforce that identity, another old Windows Mobile mainstay is ditched: custom interfaces. All Windows Phone devices will look and work the same way (colors and the exact layout of the start screen can be specified by the user, but the basic square concept is immutable), so no longer will vendors like HTC be able to supply their own front-end.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2 ... series.ars

Developers can't exactly continue to build the apps they're building now, even for attractive models such as the HTC HD Mini being announced just today, knowing that the book could be thrown out on Windows Mobile, as a model and a brand, as soon as October. And one of the key missing elements of today's Windows Phone demonstration was the apps marketplace. It isn't known for sure, even now, whether Microsoft will continue to support one, or whether it will do as CEO Ballmer suggested today and let operator partners such as AT&T determine the phones' app distribution model.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Tight-w ... 1266277972

EDIT: And something else...

Nokia, the world's biggest maker of mobile handsets, said on Monday it would merge its Linux Maemo software platform, used in its flagship N900 phone, with Intel's Moblin, which is also based on Linux open-sourced software, to create a new platform, MeeGo.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6 ... nologyNews

[archer6]

I'm fairly interested whether RIM will be able to remain relevant in the customer space. Something has to be done with the OS, but historically RIM's been much better at improving and perfecting than at remaking from scratch. The last really new thing to really be successful was the half-QWERTY format, and even there the 8100 was much more successful than the initial 7100. I'm not sure if the OS is going to be fine with just a thorough overhaul, rebuild, and maintenance, or if there has to be a complete rewrite, and if the latter, whether RIM is actually capable of doing it right. It's going to be interesting.

I agree, especially since the iPhone has shown the public how much fun a smartphone can be. As you mentioned the half-Qwerty format, known as SureType, as implemented on the 7100 series was initially quite challenging to learn, yet by the second generation models like the 7130C which I had, were excellent. Far better than the 8100 in terms of useful, well spaced keys. The 8100 however, was the very first model that was specifically made as a consumer BlackBerry. They hit a home run with that model as it's light, small, and offered in colors. However as I mentioned earlier with the advent of the Bold 9000 for the very first time, RIM shipped a BlackBerry with a very buggy OS. It caused the device to crash, and hang which typically would require removal of the battery to reset the unit. Not one of the seven BlackBerry's I had prior to that model ever had an unstable OS. To this day, over a year later RIM still has not released a stable OS for each carrier that sells the device. I'm using AT&T and the problem still exists after I've upgraded the OS nine times to different builds. A very unacceptable problem for a company with RIM's credentials. They have yet to design a decent web browser so at this point, they remain known for their email and messaging proficiency, beyond which they simply do not have much to offer.

[rek]

I picked up a Motorola Milestone (GSM version of the Droid) yesterday.

My goodness, this is the most perfect smartphone I've ever used or even hoped for. (And yes, I have had an iPhone - and grew tired of its "Apple's way or the highway" philosophy after a month)

[Navck]

AT&T Fuze / US, GSM version of the Touch Pro here. I love WM 6.1 for all the programs out there for free that help productivity moreso than cutesy mainstream "apps".

That and being able to mess with my own registry.

[GomJabbar]

Hot off the press...

Motorola Backflip on AT&T: Not the Full Android Experience

[loyukfai]

It's not necessarily a bad thing per se. At the moment, Android seems to be "too" tightly integrated with the other parts of Google.

FWIW, integration could be useful, but I don't like the way it's forced onto the users.

Cheers.

[asiafish]

I've always liked Palms devices, had a few Treos then migrated to BlackBerrys for the slightly better keyboards which are even better today. I travel so extensively I end up like today (a travel day)...every single post I've composed including this one is from the keyboard of my BlackBerry Bold 9000. The dead giveaway when reading my posts is when you see the period I use as a "spacer" to separate paragraphs like this.
.
If I don't include that period above, for some reason the space is not recognized by the forum software, and I end up with one giant paragraph. It doesn't do that when composing emails or texts. Only when posting to a forum.
.
Speaking of BlackBerrys & touchscreens, RIM really blew it when they created the Storm for Verizon. A horrible example of a very poorly designed touchscreen. Now in its second generation it's better but far from as good it needs to be.
.
Cheers...

I agree with you on the original Storm, but after a very extensive shopping and comparison period I bought a Storm2 last week. The device thus far has been excellent. It is fast, has an excellent screen, the touchscreen keyboard works as well as a touchscreen keyboard can (not as good as physical).

I'm very happy with it so far, and find it an improvement over my old BlackBerry 8830 in every way except typing speed.

[jdhurst]

I see today that Palm is for sale (they put themselves up for sale) (source ZDNet). I knew they were having issues, but I guess the handwriting is on the wall for them. ... JDH

[t140568]

I see today that Palm is for sale (they put themselves up for sale) (source ZDNet). I knew they were having issues, but I guess the handwriting is on the wall for them. ... JDH

That's kind of a shame. I hope someone buys them and does something good with the company. I think there's a ton of potential there.

[Superego]

That's kind of a shame. I hope someone buys them and does something good with the company. I think there's a ton of potential there.

Apparently Lenovo is seriously considering buying Palm. So maybe we can get a thinkpad smartphone?

As much as people may question the quality of Thinkpads since Lenovo took over, it's not as if the brand completely tanked. Palm could be bought by a lot worse...plus Lenovo may be able to get Palm some desperately needed cash.

[t140568]

I can't wait to see all this unfold.

[loyukfai]

BTW, Lenovo is already making some phones, based on Android.

Cheers.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2357808,00.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjSqTgAXnSM

[archer6]

I agree with you on the original Storm, but after a very extensive shopping and comparison period I bought a Storm2 last week. The device thus far has been excellent. It is fast, has an excellent screen, the touchscreen keyboard works as well as a touchscreen keyboard can (not as good as physical).

I'm very happy with it so far, and find it an improvement over my old BlackBerry 8830 in every way except typing speed.

This is great news! I'm glad to hear the Storm 2 is working out well for you.

I still appreciate RIM, despite some of the frustrating moves they've made. It's rather like my Love/Hate relationship with Apple, why these companies do some of the questionable things they do is enough to make a loyal customer seethe...

That said, I've gradually migrated to a position of being _Platform Neutral_ and make a point to enjoy the various strengths while dealing with the weaknesses.

On the desktop: Windows, Linux, Unix, OS X.
In the mobile space: RIM, Android, MeeGo, iPhone, Open-Moko, are just some for example.

[pianowizard]

Sprint just dropped the price of the HTC Touch Pro2 to $199.99 (after $100 mail-in rebate) and so I just ordered one! I am so very excited!

[archer6]

Sprint just dropped the price of the HTC Touch Pro2 to $199.99 (after $100 mail-in rebate) and so I just ordered one! I am so very excited!

Congratulations! Personally I believe that's one very fine smartphone. HTC offers stellar build quality. That particular model is one of my absolute favorites, it's got a fabulous display, great call quality (which not all smartphones have) and it's constant reliable data connectivity is second to none. I think you're really going to be happy with it. I look forward to a report from you if you have the time. Enjoy!

Cheers...

[pianowizard]

I look forward to a report from you if you have the time.

I received this HTC Touch Pro2 yesterday. On the whole, it's an improvement over the Palm Centro that I upgraded from. Most importantly, the HTC's faster speed, higher-res screen, and much newer version of Opera result in a superb web viewing experience. The camera and camcorder are also better than the Centro's. HOWEVER, the Centro is actually better in several major ways, which is quite impressive and a little surprising considering that it was released in Oct 2007 as a super-budget phone (I bough mine in Nov 2007). First, the Palm OS and web browser (Blazer) include lots of shortcuts that really speed up various types of applications. The Centro's navigation button is also extremely convenient. I will also miss the infrared port, which is an excellent way to transfer files to and from my Thinkpads. And it's easy to hold the Centro and type with the same hand -- for the Touch Pro2, I need both hands. Finally, the Centro is much lighter. Like I said earlier, Palm makes great smartphone and I don't fully understand why they have been losing money. I blame poor marketing, but that's probably not the only explanation.

But I am still glad that I got the HTC, because outside of my office at work, my only way to get on the internet is through my phone, and the HTC is a better internet device than the Centro.

[donzoomik]

Well, i'm a fan of Windows Mobile, the old school 6.1, not 7.
My current phone is Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 from 2008 and it seems that i've exhausted my upgrade options since i haven't seen any Snapdragon based phone with decent hardware keyboard...
Why fan of WM? Well, mostly for reasons why people hate it!
Pretty good productivity software. Also SDK is for everyone and you can run just about everything besides Marketplace.
Navigation software - TomTom, Garmin, iGo, Navigon etc.
"Freedom" - while not in source and licensing, it has been hacked in and out. Just look at XDA-developers...
Stylus-oriented interface. In my opinion it's horrible waste to make interface huge to adjust for fingers. Occasionally if everyone around me is blind or has Parkinson's, because i can hit these tiny buttons pretty well on my default WM interface and i don't have the smallest of fingers.
While i don't hate round and smooth interfaces, i like plain and simple more
And the usual, domains, management utilities, VPN, Exchange etc.

[qviri]

I will also miss the infrared port, which is an excellent way to transfer files to and from my Thinkpads.

If you haven't yet, try Bluetooth for file transfers between phone and laptop. It's pretty great in my opinion.

[pianowizard]

If you haven't yet, try Bluetooth for file transfers between phone and laptop. It's pretty great in my opinion.

The problem is my T42 and 240Z don't have Bluetooth! But this problem won't last long, because I just ordered a USB bluetooth adapter.

[jdhurst]

<snp>Apparently Lenovo is seriously considering buying Palm. So maybe we can get a thinkpad smartphone?
<snip>

HP apparently purchased Palm. Reported today 4/28/2010 ... JDH

[GomJabbar]

Now that Symbian is open source lets see what Nokia can do.

Nokia launches first open source Symbian phone

The device will be Nokia's flagship smartphone. It can be plugged into home theatres and supports surround sound as well as high-quality video.

Social networks, such as Twitter and Facebook, can be displayed on the home screen in a single application.

Lee Williams, executive director of the Symbian Foundation, said he was "stoked" that Nokia had chosen to use the operating system on its phone.

The phone will ship in the third quarter of 2010, following delays.

[GomJabbar]

HTC's Incredible addition to the Android phone market

Consider the sleek Droid device, running Google's Android software, that Verizon Wireless's site touts. Its form and features could make that carrier's older devices look a little old and busted.

That might be a problem if you bought the sleek Droid device that Verizon touted in November. While the Motorola Droid finally gave Verizon a respectable competitor to Apple's iPhone, it compares poorly with the HTC Droid Incredible that Verizon began selling Thursday.
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(Confusingly enough, Verizon's two other Android phones, HTC's Droid Eris and Motorola's Devour, ship with significantly older versions of Android.)

[archer6]

I just had a chance to try an HTC Droid Incredible. The first impression is how fast it is, browsing the web is terrific, which is what I find myself using my smartphones for more and more.

Currently I'm testing an unlocked unbranded HTC HD2.
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd2-pictures-2957.php

The compelling factor that caused me to acquire this phone is it's fabulous 4.3" 480 x 800 display in a relatively compact chassis. The downside is it runs WinMo 6.5, an OS I do not care for. Yet I had a chance to give this unit a try and I'm glad I did. What I'm eagerly awaiting is the next HTC Android model. It will be nearly identical to the HD2, but will be powered by Android version 2.1 with HTC's Sense UI. A graphical interface that is not only fast, but highly customizable. Now _this_ is my opinion, will be the smartphone to have if one is into accessing forums and other web sites while away from your computer.

Cheers...

[pianowizard]

Wow, the new iPhone has amazing specs:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/07/iphone-4-announced/

With a res of 960x640, it should be possible to display the full width of this forum in portrait mode and the text would still be legible. On my HTC Touch Pro2, which is 800x480,I need to rotate the screen into landscape to read this site clearly since 480 pixels aren't enough.

[j-dawg]

The new iPhone does look incredible. I am still on my N95 which seems positively ancient compared to some of these new phones, but I'm still happy with it. I'm eligible for an upgrade on T-Mobile, but I can only get dumbphones so I'm content to keep my upgrade for when I need it. If I could use an Android phone with the 5.99 T-Zones plan I would consider picking up an old MyTouch 3G or anything else that could run Android 2.1. Maybe even a G1 for a larf - they are dirt cheap these days.

I also need a camera at least as good as the N95's and until recently manufacturers have been neglecting that. Lots of 5- and 8-mpx cameras out as of late, though, and with decent optics too, so I may have to consider an upgrade once I stop spending all my money on my car.

[AIX]

I bought a HTC Hero for my wife, two weeks ago; it's a pretty nice phone, the screen isn't too big (320 x 480 pixels, 3.2 inches, far from "fabulous 4.3" 480 x 800" HTC HD2's display) but enough to check an email or for the weather conditions. It's Android powered.