T410s - Start the Reviews Somewhere....

[JShadd19]

I figured we should start a thread for T410s reviews. I believe they are starting to arrive in the hands of people here in the US, but we have not heard anything yet....where are you guys?

I have the following on order (3.17.2010) - I was told it would ship 5/4/2010 and they just revised my shipping date to no later than 4/9/2010 - so I am pumped!

2901CTO THINKPAD T410S - 1 YEAR DEPOT
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[period3]

Don't count on it. I placed my order on March 1st. My expected ship date was pushed back twice -- now it's at April 6th. Meanwhile I see other people on this forum who placed their order after me have already received theirs. When I try to find what part is delaying the shipment, they dont' tell me. My only option seems to be to cancel my order and make a new one - hoping i choose a configuration that doesn't contain the unknown part that is delaying everything.

[k3davis]

"don't count on it" is a severe understatement... you might get it before it's completely devalued...

That said, your configuration is interesting... why do you have 4GB RAM in one place and 2GB RAM in another? Or am I misunderstanding somehow?

Hope you do get it, but if you do, you're expected to give impressions

[JShadd19]

"don't count on it" is a severe understatement... you might get it before it's completely devalued...

That said, your configuration is interesting... why do you have 4GB RAM in one place and 2GB RAM in another? Or am I misunderstanding somehow?

Hope you do get it, but if you do, you're expected to give impressions

I am not sure about that 4GB / 2GB confusion on the spec sheet. I should probably call and ask... I certainly upgraded from 2 --> 4GB since they would not let me degrade to Windows XP. I am even a little worried abotu running W7 with 4GB only...we shall see, and hopefully before W8 comes out...

[winco32]

I believe 2GB of Ram is fixed and can not be replaced, the other Ram slot is for upgrading.

[Volker]

I believe 2GB of Ram is fixed and can not be replaced, the other Ram slot is for upgrading.

No, there is no RAM soldered on the motherboard. There are two slots accessible at the bottom. The largest memory module currently available is 4GB, for a maximal total of 8GB in the T410s.

[ljwobker]

4GB of memory should be more than enough to run win7 for 99% of users. If you routinely handle extremely large data sets you may actually need more, but I'd expect that those users already know who they are. (also, if you want/need to go >4GB you have to run the 64b version of win7...)

[halobox]

The largest memory module currently available is 4GB, for a maximal total of 8GB in the T410s.

Keyword = currently

Sammy is supposed to be making 8GB SoDimms as we speak. 16GB T410s anyone?

[kltye]

I ordered mine on 3/9, and got it 3/26 - standard 4-6 day shipping. The only upgrade I got was the 128GB Samsung SSD. The rest was stock. I bought a 4GB DDR3 module from NewEgg, and I now have 6GB total (5.8GB usable according to Windows).

So far, everything has more or less met my expectations. It's of course light and extremely fast, thanks to the SSD. The Thinklight is >2x brighter than my T61's, and the screen is a lot brighter too. Build quality, from the hinges to the keyboard is excellent as well.

However, the viewing angles on it are horrible - I'd say almost worst than the T61 (I had the 15.4" WSXGA+ screen on that). It sort of reminds me of the DSTN screens of the yesteryear - having to change the screen angle every so often, especially when watching movies. Ah, the joys of TN panels. Oh, and I have a dead pixel that's constantly red in the lower portion of the screen. I'll live with it for a while, but I'll definitely be sending it in during my warranty period.

Battery life is another concern. According to PowerManager (I wiped the preload, btw), I draw about 12-20 watts sitting idle, with the screen on level 5, WiFi turned off, WiMAX USB dongle plugged in. With a 44Whr battery, that translates to just over 2 hours of light use. I'm not really sure how else to reduce power draw at this point.

Feel free to ask me any questions you have about it.

[Tony Chan]

According to PowerManager (I wiped the preload, btw), I draw about 12-20 watts sitting idle...

What's your model and config? 12-20 watts idle seems a lot !! I managed to get around 7-8 watts idle for my T400, with P8400 cpu/4gb ram/LED screen ( brightless set to 3 ) and wifi/bluetooth off. Also, ultrabay has no drive with this config.

[cdb]

Not really a review, but at least first impressions. The summary is that I am quite happy. If anything, the T410s has initially exceeded my expectations.

Ordered 2/19, arrived today (3/29). Until I got the shipment confirmation Saturday, the official Order Status indicated 4/21/2010 shipment (on both the Lenovo & IBM sites).

T410s (2901CT) with the following options:
* Intel X18-M 80GB (SSDSA1M080G2) - thankfully Gen2
* 4GB (2 DIMMs)
* Windows 7 64-bit
* Ultrabay battery
* Intel 6300 WiFi

I've been a ThinkPad user since the T30 (T41, T60p, T400), and so far this is my favorite. The build quality is excellent, and I really like the thin chassis and light weight. For me the T410s is the perfect compromise between size and features. The screen is a useful size, and the Ultrabay offers very useful flexibility.

Sure, I wish the T410s had high-quality 16:10 IPS screen with LED back-light, but AFAIK that is "unobtainium." I haven't tried any of the optimizations mentioned in the other threads, but out-of-the-box the display looks like a typical TN panel with matte finish: viewing angles are poor (especially from below), and colors are off. However like the T400, the big win is the brightness. Set at 50% (as bright as my desktop LCD) & WiFi enabled, power consumption is 9W. With brightness at minimum & WiFi disabled, this drops to 7W.

The keyboard is excellent! Virtually no flex, and I like the enlarged Esc & Delete keys. The new power and audio buttons are a nice touch. The LCD is very thin and has some flex, but is apparently impervious to deformation by pressing on the top cover. The overall chassis stiffness seems higher than any of my previous ThinkPads.

I wish Lenovo would change the BIOS to stop always draining the Ultrabay battery completely, but I've grown used to manually managing battery life by partially ejecting the Ultrabay. The added battery life is worth the hassle. Fortunately the Ultrabay HDD carrier & battery is the same as for the T400, so now I have a spare.

My main concern was noise, but even when the fan is running (which is rare), to me it is quieter than any of my previous ThinkPads.

Next-up, connecting the dock and exercising dual-DVI connections to a pair of monitors. This is something I have wanted for a *very* long time. Running one of the 24" monitors through a VGA connection is noticeably lower quality.

[kltye]

What's your model and config? 12-20 watts idle seems a lot !! I managed to get around 7-8 watts idle for my T400, with P8400 cpu/4gb ram/LED screen ( brightless set to 3 ) and wifi/bluetooth off. Also, ultrabay has no drive with this config.

2.4GHz Core i5, Thinkpad b/g/n, Bluetooth turned off. It's a 2901 CTO, fyi. Now that I have cdb to compare my power draw with, I'm a little worried. I barely have anything running - Outlook, IE, pidgin basically. If I remember correctly, the estimated battery life with the preload was about 5+ hours. I did, however, grab all the drivers from the Lenovo site after I wiped it. Speedstep is working according to cpu-z. With my brightness down to 3, I'm still measuring 11-14 watts usage.

cdb, I wish I knew they'd ship the G2 version of the X18-m. I heard rumours it was the G1 they were shipping, and so avoided it to go with the larger capacity.

[Tony Chan]

So it seems with T410s idling, the power consumption is similar to T400 ( with the 25W cpu ). That's great news as I keep hearing the i5/i7 laptops use more power overall. Would be interesting to see the overall power consumption though, not just idle.

cdb, since you own a T400 as well, can you compare your T400 with the new T410s please? I really like my T400. It's rigid, bright ( I have LED screen ) and never have ripples on the LCD when pressed from cover. It is fast enough for my everyday work, extremely quiet with a ssd installed, and has lots of options for battery ( 4/6/9 cell + ultrabay ). I just wish it's a bit lighter. Most of the time when I use it I put a 4 cell battery, pull the dvd drive and replace with a blank bought from a fellow forum member here. If the T410s is every bit as good and is pound and a half lighter and thinner, then we got a winner here.

And to kltye, I think most likely it's a driver issue ( power management driver ?? ). Do you have integrated graphics? I forgot to mention I pulled my optical drive to get around 7-8 w idle, although even with the drive slot in, it only increae by maybe a watt or so.

[cdb]

can you compare your T400 with the new T410s please? <snip> I just wish it's a bit lighter. Most of the time when I use it I put a 4 cell battery, pull the dvd drive and replace with a blank bought from a fellow forum member here. If the T410s is every bit as good and is pound and a half lighter and thinner, then we got a winner here.

I'd describe the T410s as a faster, thinner, lighter T400 with a better keyboard & dock. The screen brightness is similar. Unless you need the monster battery life, I can't think of any advantage to the T400 - other than cost! I am surprised that the thin T410s chassis is so rigid, and having the ports on the rear is very convenient. One thing I don't like is the two-handed process for ejecting the Ultrabay; I prefer the old-style pop-and-pull.

Power draw seems driven almost completely by the CPU. Clamping the maximum processor state at 10% noticeably reduces consumption, but for browsing and Office I can't tell any difference in responsiveness. Surprisingly, opening one Firefox browser window with several tabs adds ~3W power consumption. So a "normal" working session is idling around 12W. This is probably the difference between my results and kltye's.

[Tony Chan]

Can you say your T410s feels stronger and tighter than your T400 then?

[cdb]

Can you say your T410s feels stronger and tighter than your T400 then?

I no longer have my T400 for a direct comparison, but it is at least comparable or better.

[zhenya]

I have both a T400 and a T410s here on my desk at the moment.

Overall, build quality is very similar. The lid of the T410s is quite a bit more flexible, but it is also considerably thinner than the T400. Much of the slim-ness of the T410s comes from the thinner lid. The lids appear to be made of similar materials, and have the same soft-touch finish that is prone to scratching. Both are very solid and flex-free if picked up with one hand from a front corner with the screen open. Screen is a tad brighter on the T410s, but both have poor blacks which is responsible for their low contrast ratios.

The speakers are covered with a more elegant grill design on the T410s. I have not yet had a chance to assess sound performance. The T410s feels remarkably smaller and lighter than the specs would indicate on paper. The T400 is rather chunky in comparison.

The T400 wins on variety of ports - firewire, pcmcia/express card, but the ports on the T410s are much more modern - display port (DVI built in -FINALLY), POWERED USB!!, esata, and express card, among others. Would have liked another USB available on the sides of the T410s.

Keyboard is every bit as good at first use. The closer key spacing makes for a cleaner look, and you'd probably never notice the difference just to look at it without an older machine as comparison. How well it works for sustained typing is another story.

Interestingly, both the T400 and T410s I have are running fresh installs of Windows 7 x64 Pro and standard drives. The T400 boots to the login screen in 1:50 and to a usable desktop in 2:55. The T410s is 1:00 and 1:55 respectively.

I'll post more as I think of it, or let me know if you have any specific questions.

[voirin]

Really appreciate the updates - very informative.

With respect to the screen, would you by chance know how it compares to the t61p, aside from it being brighter. You mentioned the poor contrast ratio. How about the viewing angles?

One issue I had with the t series was the noticeable heat coming from right palm rest. But this was likely due to the heat liberated from the HDD. Is there still a head issue? I guess with SSD this isn't an issue anymore.

[zhenya]

Really appreciate the updates - very informative.

With respect to the screen, would you by chance know how it compares to the t61p, aside from it being brighter. You mentioned the poor contrast ratio. How about the viewing angles?

One issue I had with the t series was the noticeable heat coming from right palm rest. But this was likely due to the heat liberated from the HDD. Is there still a head issue? I guess with SSD this isn't an issue anymore.

One of these T410s' is being prepped for a user to replace his T60p. We have a few T61's around, but no T61p's. It is certainly brighter than either of those. I will have to take a look at the viewing angles of the other models next time I see them, but the left to right viewing angles on the T410s is decent - I can go almost 180 degrees and still see the image and colors are still visible, if not accurate. Up/down viewing angle is poor; too high and it is excessively bright, too low and it is dark. It's not a problem for a single user sitting at a desk, but could be if someone is looking over your shoulder, etc.

To update the boot times I posted earlier, last night I cloned the factory image to the Intel SSD we will be putting in these computers. Boot times dropped to :27 to the login screen and :40 to usable desktop!

Edit: I should also update that while the new trackpad is nice, and I would have thought I would want them to make it larger as they did, it seems to now get in the way of using the trackpoint. It's very difficult not to rest part of your hand on the trackpad and accidentally click or move the mouse. Of course you can disable it, but I personally like using both.

Also, regarding the heat issue. I would not expect the SSD to be much cooler than a standard drive. In my experience they still get very hot. The drive in the T410s in under the extreme lower left corner of the computer. I have not yet noticed that area even getting warm, but I haven't pushed these very hard yet, either. I'll report back if I notice a change.

[voirin]

Thanks for the reply/update.

Great to read your info on the panel brightness. I had to return my T61p because of its lack of brightness alone (very picky with panels). They seem like a definite improvement.

So the SSD liberates just as much heat as a HDD? I guess that means there are no power-saving advantages of using SSD. Just faster read/writes and zero noise. Well at least the drive it's now located in the lower left of the laptop. I use the trackpoint with my right hand, which predominantly rests on the laptop (more so than the left). No more wrist burn hah!

Jut waiting for switchable graphics to be made available and I'm snapping a hold of a T410s - can't wait!