I think I got ripped off

[lobbleton]

I bought a T60p from ibmfactoryoutlet on ebay. I was wondering why my device manager said I had a x1300 when T60p's only have v5200's or v5250's. I ran SIW and low and behold there is a T60 motherboard in the T60p they sent me. In the item listing they clearly stated that it had a v5200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0427058268

What should I do about this guys?

[Harryc]

That machine shipped with a V5200 systemboard, FRU 42T0124.
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... Results.vm

I would return it immediately.

[rkawakami]

Since the auction closed two months ago, you are probably out of luck. Auction terms were 7-day money back and I believe eBay has a 45 day period where you can file a claim. However, I'd still provide the eBay seller with the documentation you have and politely request if there is anything that they can do. It would be nice if you have pictures of the box it was shipped in (all six sides), prior to opening it and while it was being opened, with clear photos of the entire laptop, showing that it was indeed from them. Don't know what you can do to support any claim that you have not disassembled the system since receiving it. Some sellers will put security (tamper-proof) stickers over screws or across seams but if they weren't present, then it's going to be a tough sell.

The auction description clearly shows the model that was being offered (2007-WUK) is not exactly the same as what is being reported off the motherboard (although WUK is based upon a 2007-CTO). Given that the S/N is correct, the factory warranty expired on 11/03/2009 so that does not agree with their description either.

ref: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... y=2007-WUK (system configuration)
ref: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... yle=lenovo (warranty lookup)

[crashnburn]

Paypal has a resolution / complaint system. You can complain to them. Check for the length as such.

I had used it with Maurice / ThinkpadWorld when I had issues when I bought the T61.

BTW - How did you take those screenshots. What app / utility>?

[lobbleton]

I am going to call them today. It kind of feels like I'm going to take this one on the chin.
I wish I had found this forum before I bought my machine.

BTW - How did you take those screenshots. What app / utility>?

I got the specs with the program System Information for Windows. Then hit the PrtSc key and pasted in Paint.

[eyestrain]

Sorry for your

In case this helps in any way, I bought a 2007-WUK very recently from IBM website, not ebay, and the email, paperwork included with the computer, and sticker on bottom show WUK, and I can see in Windows XP Home (not included with purchase, pro is... just temporary) that it has the 5200 card, using Catalyst.

None of the paperwork or emails list the type of video card. But when purchasing, I saw it clearly on the website, either right there, or clicking through with the model and type number.

I can very easily also check my T60p with a common Ubuntu flavor too if you like, to see what it says the card is. In case of the extremely unlikely event Win is incorrectly reporting, as the 5200 card does have limited support... still I'd be shocked.

[twillis449]

If i recall correctly the paypal time limit for filing complaints is also 45 days, so you may be out of luck there.

[lda]

I bought a T60p from ibmfactoryoutlet on ebay. I was wondering why my device manager said I had a x1300 when T60p's only have v5200's or v5250's. I ran SIW and low and behold there is a T60 motherboard in the T60p they sent me. In the item listing they clearly stated that it had a v5200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0427058268

What should I do about this guys?

Sorry for your bad experience. I just bought a t60p from the same ebay seller. Bad experience too,
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=86129

It seems that they keep doing such things for a long time. I wonder how could they have such a good feedback in ebay.

[AMATX]

Well, if you two guys post neg feedback w/explanation, maybe that'll cause this
seller to go away or clean up their act.

Feedback only works if people use it correctly.

In the meantime, usual advise about using the ebay complaint process,
ccard chargeback(always use ccard on substantial purchases), etc.

Most of the time ebay works; unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't.

[ajkula66]

Ida wrote:

It seems that they keep doing such things for a long time. I wonder how could they have such a good feedback in ebay.

Unfortunately, many buyers are absolutely clueless, and this seller's listings are (and have always been) misleading at the very least. If you paid by credit card, file a chargeback YESTERDAY.

AMATX wrote:

Most of the time ebay works; unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't.

This is a very optimistic statement IMHO. In my experience (close to a decade on fleabay, both buying and selling) it's a miss more often than a hit, and more than ever so nowadays.

Many old-time sellers have stopped operating when they got fed up with eBay/PayPal nonsense of "the buyer can claim whatever they want and always win", and I don't blame them one bit. Heck, I've sold fewer machines over the past year than I used to in a months' time five years ago...and still got grief from several imbeciles

My $0.02 only...

[emeraldgirl08]

I agree.

I've been somewhat reluctant to relist anything that I had put up for sale. I did get instances of grief from a guy who I sold a bluetooth receiver to. He must have finally figured out how to use it b/c he had held my feedback hostage and suddenly I noticed he left a positive feedback for me! I also had someone who won the bid for an LCD I have for sale (it's here in the Marketplace...shameless plug) but never paid and a guy who sold me DVDs that were supposed to be "Like New" but were not (one crack in the middle of a DVD and they were dirty and scratched when I got them).

I buy things still but I do not think I will be selling as often anymore. Sorry did not mean to detract from the OPs thread but the negatives of ebay should be addressed. I think that looking at a sellers feedback and asking thorough questions before buying and having them answered via ebay's messaging service is one small way that a buyer can insure themselves. The same principle would apply to a seller for documentation purposes.

[twillis449]

I would guess that I've purchased something like 30 to 40 items, including five laptops, off e-bay over the last couple of years. My experiences with sellers that were clearly 'real' businesses, including ibmfactoryoutlet, were all OK. I think I've had 3 or four bad experiences with individual sellers, including someone who sold me a thinkpad T43 that was advertised as having a screen with 'no dead pixels'. This description may have been literally true, but there were certainly enough white pressure point effects, gray dust-like stuff there etc. Unfortunately I failed to be as nasty as I should have been with this individual and I ended up spending another $80 or so to get a top-quality replacement LCD from another e-bay business seller.

Also I've noticed that indeed some business sellers' descriptions of a particular computer model can't be correct - but I have a suspicion that a lot of this could be due to data entry errors by clueless clerks etc.

Anyway, one certainly has to thoroughly check a computer gotten from e-bay as soon as it arrives. I've used e.g. PC Doctor to run a system check on the entire machine. If something is wrong, take immediate action - don't wait two months!

[lobbleton]

Ok I am definitely returning the laptop to the seller. This believe it or not, was the first laptop I ever purchased. I did not think to look up my parts with a program until I read about it in a forum post. Now I am definitely in the market for a quality T60p and could really use your guys help.

What are some details I should look for when buying a used machine (specific model numbers, parts, bios password)?

Would you guys trust this site? http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/we ... &langId=-1

Anyone have a high quality T60p they would like to sell?


Thanks Again Guys

[ajkula66]

IBM's refurbs have been hit or miss for a couple of years...you do get a 7-day "no questions asked" return period, though.

My advice would be to post a WTB ad in the forum's Marketplace and give it some time...and no, I don't have a T60p to sell you...

[rkawakami]

What are some details I should look for when buying a used machine (specific model numbers, parts, bios password)?

"New" system checkout:

- Prior to actually buying the system, ask for the seven character model TYPE and plug it into the "Quick Path" box on this page:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... OME-LENOVO

This will give you the configuration of the system when it left the factory. Compare it against the description that the seller has provided and see if it makes sense. If the system is relatively new and the seller can provide you with the serial number, you can get a list of some of the parts that were installed in the system:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... yle=lenovo

The same TYPE and serial number information can be entered into this page:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... yle=lenovo

and you can get the warranty status.

When you do receive the system, besides giving it a good look-over...

- Boot the system and access the BIOS. You'll find out right away if there's a BIOS password set. If you don't ever try to access the BIOS and there's a password set, when (not if) the backup battery dies, you'll be faced with a system that will ask for a password before booting an OS.
- Compare the system unit serial number information in the BIOS with what's on the bottom of the system - they should match. If they are different, that means the motherboard has been changed. Which could mean you are getting "less" of a system than advertised. Note that this is not a decisive check as it is possible to alter the information in BIOS using a special diskette.
- Run a system diagnostic to verify the functionality of the laptop. The best one that I can suggest is what's provided by IBM/Lenovo: PC Doctor for DOS. Find your system in this product matrix and click on the link:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... ATRIX.html

then look for the Diagnostics/PC Doctor section. There are versions for Windows and DOS. The Windows version requires that you have a working copy of Windows for the system. That may not always be the case with a "new" system. The DOS version is run off bootable diskette(s) or CD so you'll need a floppy drive or a way to burn .ISO images onto a CD. Run at least the CPU/Coprocessor, systemboard and video checks.

For particular strengths and weaknesses on specific systems, search the archives or post your question(s) in the appropriate sub-forum.

[GrandMasterKhan]

I don't understand why you need to negotiate with a thief, persuade PayPal or eBay to help you. This is a matter of fair trade between you and him and you were intentionally deceived. Call the guy, state what happened and say you need a refund immediately. Tell him if you do not get your money back you will call the police and if they dont help you will show up at his house or his business at any time and take the money back from him based on principle. You give him an out to refund you to reduce wasted time but if that doesn't happen and he's not smart enough to remedy things right away you tell him you will act. Be blunt and short and make the call. That's it. Also, file a complaint with the BBB and trash his business even if you do get your money back as a "hit" for jerking you around.

[eyestrain]

The DOS version is run off bootable diskette(s) or CD

Thanks! I've actually installed windows to run PC Dr... didn't need to, I guess. I don't have or put Windows on every TP (yet) but want to have the Dr. visit each one I bought and buy.

[eyestrain]

Having used 3 versions now, Pc Dr for Dos, Pc Dr 5 for Win, and ThinkVantage Toolbox (TvTb), there is a difference.

The Dos version seems to be weaker in testing video cards, not as thorough in running through 3d tests? It also doesn't have the nice monitor test, good for bad pixels, pressure marks, etc. The Win version seems better at both, and the Thinkvantage version might be even better for thoroughly testing a video card. But I'm not an expert, just how it looks to me.

Dos version thought a T42p had a Radeon 9600, while the Win version said Fire GL T2, which agrees with the IBM website.

The Win version dropped the stress test the Dos version had, but IIRC it came back again in TvTb.
In Windows, Prime95 is a good stresstest if you can't use TvTb, which has higher req than the others:

TvTb requires

systems that run a 32-bit version of Windows 7, Vista or windows XP Pro.
Internet Explorer 7 or 8 must be installed
...
This package requires approximately 150MB of space on your hard
drive once installed. During the installation process, up to 300 MB
is required.

The Dos version is probably good enough in most cases, though I'm especially concerned with the GPU issue in T4x & R5x models.

[evil]

FireGL V5200 is X1600 with flashed VBIOS. FireGL/Quadro drivers often caused problems for gamers, so they often used different hacks(including VBIOS flashing), so I would check if its not that(but should be X1600 anyway, not X1300). I am not gamer, so its not important for me, I would got intel card, but I wads forced to power hungry FireGL because I wanted FlexView(and to 15", I would want 14")
I see you got UXGA res, at 1st I would check if thats FlexView/IPS screen. Its possible thats refurbished machine, and some emplyer mixed T60 and T60p.