New MacBook Pro with IPS Display...

[archer6]

I cringe at the thought of Apple beating Lenovo to the punch, when it comes to offering laptops with IPS displays.

"The Rumor"
Apple will include IPS displays standard on the next rev of the MacBook Pro expected in approx six months.

Now for the disclaimer:
This is but a rumor at this point, and yet I have it from one of my better sources. I thought I would put it out there, for forum members to comment on.

Cheers...

[Marin85]

It means there is a very good chance that we will be seeing IPS screens back on Lenovo ThinkPads

[GomJabbar]

It means there is a very good chance that we will be seeing IPS screens back on Lenovo ThinkPads

Or perhaps a chance some of us will go the dark side.

[Marin85]

Well, I think all in all there are exactly two possibilities:

Scenario 1: This is just a rumor. -> back again to point zero.

Scenario 2: It is not a rumor. If IPS panels are available to Apple for non-tablet laptops, then why not other laptop manufacturers have them too, in particular a company owning a brand with well-known history of IPS panels... I don´t think Lenovo could afford to be non-competitive to Apple in that area, especially after the introduction of the W-series. And if Apple will be selling their laptops equipped with IPS panels, then they do in fact have calculated that there is demand for it out there, and this demand definitely does not come only from some obsessed Apple 'fanboy' who wants to watch HD movie on a better laptop screen.

As for the dark side, I guess we have already chosen it very very black - at least this is the way I like my ThinkPad

[Navck]

Apple, unlike most computer companies, has an iron death grip over (some of) their suppliers, being able to twist their arms hard enough to make them churn products out at a loss.

If you want an example, I want you to figure out why only Toshiba made 1.8" HDDs saturate Apple's 1.8" market instead of anyone else's 1.8" HDDs. Also bringing up "because" is an invalid answer, because WD, Seagate and Hitachi could make 1.8" HDDs if they cared, too.

Anyways, the LCD, harddrive and various markets that suppliers work in are cut throat and hellish. Apple happens to be able to push their suppliers hard and with the power of the reality distortion field, make things happen. That and pricing their products high enough to sucker some more hipsters into buying some anti-engineering.

[Puppy]

It means there is a very good chance that we will be seeing IPS screens back on Lenovo ThinkPads

No, if Lenovo really wanted to use them they would already ask LG.Display to produce them and use the advantage of being the first (actually the second ... sad). It is not a rocket science, especially since there are "economy" e-IPS panels more suitable for portable devices because of lower power consumption. But Lenovo have clearly shown they are no longer interested in being identified with "quality", "leader" or "top technology" tags.

If it would really happen (I bet Apple or HP is going to be the winner) I just hope these panels will be exchangeable in ThinkPads It would be also the best confirmation of Lenovo marketing failure with all those "we don't have reliable supplier" blah-blahs.

Don't you think that the most sad thing is there are such rumors for Apple and HP lately but not ThinkPad ?

[Marin85]

Maybe, you are right. But if we suppose for a moment that Lenovo is so evil that they don´t want to equip their ThinkPads with (laptop) IPS panels even though such were available from supplier side, then why did not Apple or any other laptop manufacturer (excluding tablets) go for them as to be the first one? Design and photography has always been one of Apple´s main targets. I am not saying that no laptop manufacturer could not have IPS panels because there was no one to produce it for them, or for whatever other reasons. I am just saying that until now this whole IPS thing was unprofitable, for laptop manufacturers or for the panel suppliers or most likely for both. Otherwise, there would have been at least someone who would have offered laptops with IPS screens.

Maybe this have changed now. If the rumors turn out correct, then screen suppliers and the laptop manufacturers in question must have found a cost-effective or profitable middle way to realize their products. Technology evolves. I would speak of 'Lenovos failure' after I have seen that HP and Apple in fact offer their laptops with IPS panels while Lenovo does not. And if this becomes a fact, then I guess Lenovo will have some hard time to compete if all they rely upon is the ThinkPad brand (so far not true IMO). But until then, I need something more than just a rumor.

Don't you think that the most sad thing is there are such rumors for Apple and HP lately but not ThinkPad ?

I think, now when there are such rumors, it will be sad if they turn out to be just that - rumors

[Puppy]

Maybe, you are right. But if we suppose for a moment that Lenovo is so evil that they don´t want to equip their ThinkPads with (laptop) IPS panels even though such were available from supplier side, then why did not Apple or any other laptop manufacturer (excluding tablets) go for them as to be the first one?

Because they've never tried that before. Their customers don't expect it. IBM was different story.

Otherwise, there would have been at least someone who would have offered laptops with IPS screens.

The same scenario. Have you ever found a laptop having better keyboard than ThinkPad (I mean T60 and older models, not the Lenovo flexing ones) ? The other manufacturers don't have the experience and the tradition so why would they bother with better components while nobody actually expects such quality standards from them ? ThinkPad brand name had it and Lenovo ruined that. Period.

[ARD]

Most products like laptops have a design and component supply cycle of about a year at the very least.
Apple was in the design stage of the next gen of the MBP around a year ago and they spec'd for an IPS panel. It takes a lot of planning and coordination for
the components to be ready at a certain date. It may also be possible that the manufacturers already had previous agreements with Apple and blew off Lenovo.
Until (if the Apple IPS rumor is true) Apple signed concrete deals with the LCD manufacturers, IPS manufacture was unprofitable. Now, to produce an IPS panel is profitable again thanks to Apple. Maybe Lenovo's "excuse" was true. Again, IF the Apple rumor is true.

[Navck]

Surprise, if Lenovo could ask any of the LCD manufacturers to bend over for them, produce LCD panels at a higher priority than all their customers, they'd be named Apple and their products would cost a super premium instead. Oh and some buisness relationship problems.

But no, it isn't magic to make a new LCD production line in 16:10 and ask for SPECIFICALLY speced panels, not even Apple has that capability. Apple only happens to have a lot of leverage compared to Lenovo, that is the only reason they can get those (Also: Very massive batches, because nobody will produce only a few hundred IPS 4:3 panels for you, ever.) IPS panels in 4:3 for the iPad.

[Puppy]

Apple only happens to have a lot of leverage compared to Lenovo, that is the only reason they can get those (Also: Very massive batches, because nobody will produce only a few hundred IPS 4:3 panels for you, ever.) IPS panels in 4:3 for the iPad.

Few hundred ? IBM sold millions of laptops with IPS panels many years ago when its price was much higher than today. Not for me, for everyone. How comes ?

[Navck]

Please give me a source for the numbers of laptops sold by IBM with IPS screens. Also if you can, please give me market data on other laptops during that time sold with IPS panels. (Hint: They might correlate.)

[Troels]

Only Lenovo or IBM knows that amount. But as this is before 2004/2005, it is before Lenovo took over the laptop division and laptops weren't as popular and not as cheap either compared to today. IBM had their own very small LCD-TFT plant, run in collaboration with Chi Mei because IBM did a lot of research in LCD technologies years ago (the so-called DBU). I guess no-one at that time really wanted to rely on IPS in laptops because you can/could only count on a single supplier which has a very limited amount of production. Other manufacturers weren't keen on IPS because of the licensing requirements. AFAIK Hitachi only manufactured desktop IPS panels, and has since licensed this to LG-Philips.

Even Apple supplies Ipads with S-PVA, either because LG can't keep up or requires more than Samsung for the same panel. Relying on a single supplier for a mass-production product is really dangerous. It's the same reason why there are multiple manufacturers of thinkpad components (batteries, keyboards, optical drive, hdd, hinges, lcd etc.).


Archer6,
Cool if it turns out to be true. Uninstall the LCD, throw the macbook away and install the LCD in a thinkpad
With LGs current standards in IPS, you'd probably need to return 9 of 10 laptops to get a great LCD though.
Out of curiosity, how is the "better source" related to Apple or the display business?

[qviri]

"The Rumor"
Apple will include IPS displays standard on the next rev of the MacBook Pro expected in approx six months.

The question: given Apple's normal habit of refreshing notebooks every 10-11 months, a time which was even longer for the current revision, why would they refresh again less than seven months later?

[ajkula66]

Could they offer it?

Absolutely.

Will they offer it?

I seriously doubt it. Nothing to be gained.

Apple products are not being sold on the basis of quality/performance/endurance, but by sheer marketing genius. Although their laptops don't lack any of the aforementioned qualities, generally speaking, that's not why most people buy them.

If I had to pick out a manufacturer that might come with an IPS screen at some point in the game, I'd be placing my bets on HP.

My $0.02 only...

[archer6]

The question: given Apple's normal habit of refreshing notebooks every 10-11 months, a time which was even longer for the current revision, why would they refresh again less than seven months later?

Two reasons for this *potential early refresh*
1) Offering IPS display as an option
2) A significant _change_ of a certain component

The reason this new 2010 MacBook Pro refresh was late is partially because the Apple Hype Machine was focused on the iPad. Suffice to say that I only shared this "rumor" because it involves the IPS display, which so many of us long time ThinkPad lovers prefer.

Finally I will add that at the present moment the possibility of this rumor turning into reality is strong, however as we all know, their are lots of "smoke & mirror" tricks practiced at a certain Cupertino Campus

Cheers...

[qviri]

Two reasons for this *potential early refresh*
1) Offering IPS display as an option

Highly unlikely. Correct me if I have my chronology wrong, but as I recall the Macbook Pro line lacked even a matte option until it was unveiled during a standard refresh of the 17" (and then later backported for the smaller ones). And a lot more people care about glossy/matte than TN/IPS.

2) A significant _change_ of a certain component

Maybe they'll add support for SDXC. /s

I also agree with George here... unlike the case with the iPad, IPS is not a feature the MBPs are "missing."


edit: wrote "terminology" when I meant "chronology." Bah.

[netzspannung]

IBM had their own very small LCD-TFT plant, run in collaboration with Chi Mei because IBM did a lot of research in LCD technologies years ago (the so-called DBU).

This kinda sums up the present situatuion. Such was the power of the great old IBM, that it could actually INVENT things to use in their laptops - like, invent a hard drive when you need one, invent a better display etc. This will never happen again as it is unprofitable for IBM and unthinkable-of for a company like Lenovo, who build computers from what they have, not what they make. Sad.

[asiafish]

Well, I think all in all there are exactly two possibilities:

Scenario 1: This is just a rumor. -> back again to point zero.

Scenario 2: It is not a rumor. If IPS panels are available to Apple for non-tablet laptops, then why not other laptop manufacturers have them too, in particular a company owning a brand with well-known history of IPS panels... I don´t think Lenovo could afford to be non-competitive to Apple in that area, especially after the introduction of the W-series. And if Apple will be selling their laptops equipped with IPS panels, then they do in fact have calculated that there is demand for it out there, and this demand definitely does not come only from some obsessed Apple 'fanboy' who wants to watch Bluray on a better laptop screen.

As for the dark side, I guess we have already chosen it very very black - at least this is the way I like my ThinkPad

Apple was never about fanboys watching blueray. Why? Apple has yet to make blueray drives available and doesn't include blueray support in its player software.

What Apple does have a long history of is catering to visual artists, so IPS is very likely on a MacBook Pro, but only at the high-end.

[asiafish]

Apple, unlike most computer companies, has an iron death grip over (some of) their suppliers, being able to twist their arms hard enough to make them churn products out at a loss.

If you want an example, I want you to figure out why only Toshiba made 1.8" HDDs saturate Apple's 1.8" market instead of anyone else's 1.8" HDDs. Also bringing up "because" is an invalid answer, because WD, Seagate and Hitachi could make 1.8" HDDs if they cared, too.

Anyways, the LCD, harddrive and various markets that suppliers work in are cut throat and hellish. Apple happens to be able to push their suppliers hard and with the power of the reality distortion field, make things happen. That and pricing their products high enough to sucker some more hipsters into buying some anti-engineering.

Nobody sells anything to Apple at a loss, just as Apple sells nothing to its customers at a loss. What Apple does do is buy in very high quantities, making it profitable for venders to produce special products to Apple's specifications.

As far as suckering hipsters, well, Apple sells a different product to a different market. They don't compete with the rest of the industry because their product is sufficiently differentiated (OS X) that those who want it, have only one place to get it. Apple never competes on price/specs, they compete on industrial design and their proprietary operating system.

Clearly, not everyone or even most people are willing to pay for it, but those who are seem to be quite happy with their purchases. I consider myself among that number. I have the current Core i7 15" MacBook Pro with the 15" high-resolution antiglare screen (GORGEOUS), the previous generation MacBook Air and an ancient Power Mac G5. My employees are now all on Macs (MacBook Pro, MacBook, iMac and Mac Mini) and my family all use MacBooks. Is it because my family and business are hipsters? Nope, its because OS X on THEIR computers intrudes less on MY time than Windows did. That is worth paying for.

[Navck]

The HDD industry does not agree with your statement on how Toshiba and HGST handled their 1.8" HDD sales to Apple. They lost money there and recouped in other parts of the company (Hitachi is focused on heavy industry.)
Their design image is clearly marketed to the hipster crowd while their OS is marketed to the other alternative crowd. (You know, the one that *Nixes(Unix, Linux, BSD...), OS/2, Amiga and other users aren't part of.)

And this is professional opinion combined with my personal opinion, but OS X is a flashy sandbox in terms of user interface. It is great for the general consumer who prefers the padded corner, hand holding sandbox feel but for someone who finds WinServer (Tho these types also may also like to be able to restart their servers over a command line on Symbian or highly customized Windows Mobile) to be closer to home, they would find OS X to be very counterproductive and limited in functionality.

However, I was raised in the days of "computers will punish for every mistake you make, stupid to accidental." I still am a firm believer that computers, like automobiles and everything else serious out there, should punish their users in order to make them learn something new instead of hold their hand all the way through.

[Marin85]

Apple was never about fanboys watching blueray. Why? Apple has yet to make blueray drives available and doesn't include blueray support in its player software.

What Apple does have a long history of is catering to visual artists, so IPS is very likely on a MacBook Pro, but only at the high-end.

I should have said HD...That was anyway not the point. The point was that if Apple goes for IPS screens, then they must have estimated substantial demand for such a feature! I think we are agreed in both points.