Is IBM 6 cell battery worse than battery from other laptop?

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baraider · #1 Post by **baraider** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:46 pm

This is a question, not a statement because this is my first TP so i have no idea what i'm talking about.

I have been using a X1000 presario lappy for the last 18 months or so.fully charged, it can hold over 4 hours....

as i write this, the battery indicate that it has 2h47' for 58% remaning.

my brand new t42 6 cell battery has only 3h50m when fully charged.

I wonder if this is because IBM battery is worse than others in general or because TP is such a high performace lappy that its battery does not last as long.

Is there any battery maker that we can use instead of the ibm 6 and 9 cells?

Because i take notes on my classes, going to lectures...so i need 4 hours a more on a standard battery.

thanks for your reply

#2 Post by **daeojkim** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:18 pm

IBM does not make battery for the thinkpads.
Sony, Sanyo and Panasonic are the makers. As far as battery use 4 hours is very good for a 6 cell on a T42 like machine. Actually I think it is one of the best out there. My friend's Sony Z1 with similar spec as my T42 lasts only 2.5 hours.

Also battery time depends heavily on the applications that you are running and other settings, such as LCD brightness, CPU speed, graphics card setting, etc.

Unless you test both machines running same application and settings and testing it in real life it would be difficult to judge whether one machine consumes more juice than other.

baraider · #3 Post by **baraider** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:56 pm

thanks for the reply. I guess i'll have to learn more how to maximize the battery life using lcd brightness, power setting and so.

Anyone has any tips from experience which setting will give you the most out of the battery.

The concern i have with battery for TP is that i heard a lot about battery degrade over time. the battery for my x1000 still holds 4 hours fully charged after 18 months of use.

Is it because the TYPE of battery TP use?

kanate · #4 Post by **kanate** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:28 pm

I believe HP x1000 comes standard with 8 cell battery. So, to compare usage time, you will have to compare it with thinkpad 9 cell.

baraider · #5 Post by **baraider** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:37 pm

oopss... didn't notice it...
just check with hp.com and indeed my x1000 comes with a High capacity 8-cell Lithium-Ion battery.

That explains everything...now i appreciate more about my T42...even with 6 cells...it still manages to get close to 4 hours...

fbrdphreak · #6 Post by **fbrdphreak** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:00 pm

Enjoy your four hours, within a few months you'll be lucky to hit 3

That's my biggest problem with Thinkpads, the batteries are subpar compared to other manufacturers. But I did hear that they upgraded the batteries for the T43, anyone got any concrete info on this?

dfumento · #7 Post by **dfumento** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:41 pm

fbrdphreak wrote: But I did hear that they upgraded the batteries for the T43, anyone got any concrete info on this?

Where did you hear this?

fbrdphreak · #8 Post by **fbrdphreak** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:44 pm

Somebody mentioned it on Anandtech, no credibly sources unfortunately.
In a few weeks, I should have a T43 in my hands to review for the website in my sig. I will post when I have more first-hand info

#9 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:17 pm

I don't think this is true. I have friends with Gateways, Dells, and other brands of notebooks, and EVERYONE has had their battery suffer severe degredation after a year.

My friend with a Dell 1100 can barely get 45 mins on his battery when it used to get about 2.5 hrs. Another friend had a Gateway battery just stop working. And the Dell Latitude D600s barely get 3.5 hours when the battery is new even at half brightness and WiFi on power saving mode...

IBM and other OEMs get their batteries from a handful of manufacturers. I've observed that quality of the battery is pretty uniform no matter what brand you buy.

fbrdphreak wrote:Enjoy your four hours, within a few months you'll be lucky to hit 3

That's my biggest problem with Thinkpads, the batteries are subpar compared to other manufacturers. But I did hear that they upgraded the batteries for the T43, anyone got any concrete info on this?

baraider · #10 Post by **baraider** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:18 pm

it's great if indeed they upgrade the battery. maybe i'll hold till the new battery is out to buy a new battery.

i have the 8 cell battery for the x1000 for 18 months and it never degrades...it still hold over 4 hours fully charged.....
I guess if ibm use Lithium-Ion battery, then it should keep it charges too?

fbrdphreak · #11 Post by **fbrdphreak** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:19 pm

I've noticed that HP/Compaq batteries hold up unusually well. My gf had an 8-cell on her ze4325 and it gave her 3 hours for a good couple years.
I'm not impressed with IBM's batteries at all, I hate them to death really; they could do SO much better. Maybe Lenovo will catch on

wuy30 · #12 Post by **wuy30** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:41 pm

I would suggest everyone to do is to set their battery to charge when it drop below 3% instead of the default of 96%.... most of people does not noticed this option. I did not noticed it at first, so after only 4 months with my T42, the battery have about 40+ charge cycles already and the battery drop about 6Wh..... After I switch the battery maximiser to charge when below 3%, right now after another 4 months, now the charge cycle has go up to 61 charges, but the battery only drop 1 Wh.... hope this helps

just my 2 cents

admsteiner · #13 Post by **admsteiner** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:19 pm

Keep in mind the Dell 1100 uses NiMH (I believe). It was part of a switch Dell made a few months ago on some of their "cheaper" lines.

Most people seem to have severe battery degredation over time. It's not the company, its the technology (see batteryuniversity.com).

I have 2 batteries, a 9 cell with 25 cycles and a 6 cell with about 50. The 6 cell is about 2 W lower than the design capacity while the 9 cell is still above design capacity.

In terms of time, you can't just look at the time the battery lasts for. You need to look at the capacity of the battery and how much power the laptop uses....comparing time to time is like comparing apples and oranges because they are both fruit.

--Adam

baraider · #14 Post by **baraider** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:20 pm

you sure this is the best way to go? i mean let the charge drop too slow before recharge may severely lower your battery capacity.

I guess the 96% default is there for a good result. I don't use my t42 long enough to experience anything. I just want to know the best way to keep it.

admsteiner · #15 Post by **admsteiner** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:31 pm

baraider wrote:you sure this is the best way to go? i mean let the charge drop too slow before recharge may severely lower your battery capacity.

I guess the 96% default is there for a good result. I don't use my t42 long enough to experience anything. I just want to know the best way to keep it.

I changed mine to 80-85% (i forget which) and its kept me in good stead. My understanding is that it is BAD to let your battery get that far down (3%) before recharging.

Adam

baraider · #16 Post by **baraider** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:02 am

admsteiner, you go to law school in nyc? which one?
i'm in my first year for phd too..

admsteiner · #17 Post by **admsteiner** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:09 am

baraider wrote:admsteiner, you go to law school in nyc? which one?
i'm in my first year for phd too..

I'm in Cardozo. Plan on starting my MA/MS in Comp. Sci. in the near future too. What are you getting a phd in?

--adam

baraider · #18 Post by **baraider** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:15 am

got my MS in cs last year. doing phd in math (number theory) now

thelittleprincess · #19 Post by **thelittleprincess** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:54 pm

wuy30 wrote:I would suggest everyone to do is to set their battery to charge when it drop below 3% instead of the default of 96%.... most of people does not noticed this option. I did not noticed it at first, so after only 4 months with my T42, the battery have about 40+ charge cycles already and the battery drop about 6Wh..... After I switch the battery maximiser to charge when below 3%, right now after another 4 months, now the charge cycle has go up to 61 charges, but the battery only drop 1 Wh.... hope this helps

just my 2 cents

so, how would i do this? how would i set the battery to charge when it drops below 3%? I have the ThinkPad T40 - 2379-6DU model.

TIA!!

kev009 · #20 Post by **kev009** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:07 pm

Based off knowledge from other sources, you are probably better off setting the threshold to AT LEAST 10%. Keeping your battery in top condition is actually much more complicated however. For long term storage you'll actually want a 40% charge. Ideally you should do a deep cycle (to around 10%) once a month. There are obvious set backs to keeping it below say 80% as well. When you need to go mobile and you only have a 30% charge, you must plan ahead and change the numbers.

If your machine is going to be sitting on your desk or in a dock for a while, drop the battery down to around the 40% storage level and take it out of the machine. This will prevent any heat from the computer or room from damaging the battery as well as any unwanted cycles. Store it in a temperate dry location if need be. That said you lose the integrated 'battery backup' function of your notebook if you are working on anything important

.

krosenstein · #21 Post by **krosenstein** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:12 pm

wuy30 wrote:I would suggest everyone to do is to set their battery to charge when it drop below 3% instead of the default of 96%.

First, I think this feature is available only on T42s & perhaps T43s.

Second, I would not recommend doing this. Deep discharging Li-ion batteries is not good for them and will result in a premature performance decrease.

See http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-36.htm which says:

"If possible, do not discharge lithium-based batteries too deeply. Instead, recharge more often."

f1hp · #22 Post by **f1hp** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:10 am

It's available to machines with Notebook Manager installed (my i1200 has it...) Nice...

z.entropic · #23 Post by **z.entropic** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:21 pm

[quote="krosenstein"]Second, I would not recommend doing this. Deep discharging Li-ion batteries is not good for them and will result in a premature performance decrease.[/quote]

The IBM's most recent version of MaxiMiser Help file clearly states that batteries should be deep-cycled (below 3%) at least once a month to condition and to reset the gauge.

z.entropic

JaimitoBond · #24 Post by **JaimitoBond** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:56 pm

dfumento wrote:
fbrdphreak wrote: But I did hear that they upgraded the batteries for the T43, anyone got any concrete info on this?
Where did you hear this?

Check the specs:

On the T41p:

08k8214 (6 cell) 3.3Ah
08k8197 (9 cell) 6.6Ah

On the T43p:

92p1101 (6 cell) 4.8Ah
92p1102 (9 cell) 7.2Ah

Not sure how this translates to hrs, but T43p seems to use more power anyway, so buying the newer type on the T41p should have some increase.

#25 Post by **K. Eng** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:29 pm

Could anyone explain why only the T42 and up can do this? I would like to set my T40 not to recharge unless the battery goes below 80%, but I can't find the setting anywhere in Battery Maximizer.

I recalibrated my battery and regained 4 Watt*Hrs on the gauge (I suspect those 4 Watt*Hrs were always there, and that the sofware was just out of whack.

krosenstein wrote:
wuy30 wrote:I would suggest everyone to do is to set their battery to charge when it drop below 3% instead of the default of 96%.
First, I think this feature is available only on T42s & perhaps T43s.

RoadHazard · #26 Post by **RoadHazard** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:54 pm

JaimitoBond wrote: Check the specs:

On the T41p:

08k8214 (6 cell) 3.3Ah
08k8197 (9 cell) 6.6Ah

On the T43p:

92p1101 (6 cell) 4.8Ah
92p1102 (9 cell) 7.2Ah

Not sure how this translates to hrs, but T43p seems to use more power anyway, so buying the newer type on the T41p should have some increase.

Interesting. So does anyone know if we can use the higher Ahr T43 batteries with older models like T40?

Is IBM 6 cell battery worse than battery from other laptop?

Is IBM 6 cell battery worse than battery from other laptop?

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