Reality Check

[beeblebrox]

Just stumbled across this thread....
':shock:'


Sorry to break in, but it really looks like those other funny threads from the AMD guys fighting the Pentium guys, whose CPU is better!
':lol:'
But of course, the Powerbooks are way better than Thinkpads (or was it the other way round?, I forgot...)
':roll:'

Come on guys, it is just computers. They change every 6 months depending on what the actual market buys. Everyone has its own preferences.
Look at the brand new Toshiba business notebooks at the CeBIT 2005.
They feature PS232 ports (again !!), because of customer demand!
That's why Thinkpads feature parallel ports, just customer demand.
I would think they belong to museums, but hey, a lot of companies require the old features.
So Dell, IBM, Apple or whoever just put in what their target market requires. It is that easy.
Our CIO refused to buy notebooks with good graphics chips, because they had to save every penny on infrastructure costs.

Again, only the customer target market sets the features. If you are not satisfied with given features, you are not within that target market and have to look somewhere else. It's that easy.

[mikejcmurray]

I think a good analogy to this argument would be to associate the laptops with cars. The flashy products made by Sony and Dell, etc. remind me of a tricked out Honda Civic or Subaru (engine swaps, nitrous, turbochargers, internal computers, etc.) while the Thinkpad strikes me as being similar to a BMW. The technocar can often have more horsepower or other superior features than a BMW. However, there are a number of factors not found on a spec sheet, such as reliability or ease of use, that explain why a good many people would choose a BMW over the technocar.

A lot of my friends at my college have had some bad experiences with their laptops from companies like Dell or Sony. My roommate freshmen year had two Best Buy VAIOs completely die in two months for example. Every time I show a friend my Thinkpad and they see its build quality and hear about its reliability, they get "it." The Thinkpad makes sense and works, much like a BMW.

[AlphaKilo470]

AMD guys fighting the Pentium guys, whose CPU is better!
':lol:'
But of course, the Powerbooks are way better than Thinkpads (or was it the other way round?, I forgot...)
':roll:'

Come on guys, it is just computers. They change every 6 months

I'l say that I prefer ThinkPads over PowerBooks because I want a PC. I don't want a Mac, thus I'm not in the market for one, thus making whether or not Mac is better irrelevant because they don't make PC's which is what I'm in the market for. Saying a Mac is better than a PC is almost like saying my pickup truck is better than your minivan, though they are both similar things, they perform different functions, so whether one is better or not really is irrelevant. Now, as for all of this arguing, arguing on the internet (especially about computers) is in a way much like winning the Special Olympics, you're still retarded. After stating all of this, I do say that I agree with you, beeblebrox.

[beeblebrox]

Thanks!
Actually, a while ago I read an article about Steve Jobs, after he was booted from that Pepsi-Guy (or was it Coca-Cola?).
Steve privately used only Thinkpads, because he regarded them as the best notebooks on the market. After he returned to Apple, he started doing notebooks as well, with Thinkpads being his ultimate goal (remember, the first Apple notebooks were black as well. However IBM had a patent on the trackpoint and asked for mucho dollares. So, no trackpoint).
The computer guys in an adjacent department use Powerbooks and Thinkpads, all running on some Linux derivativ.
Powerbooks are really cool, like them a lot. I would love to have a T42 running with OS X.

Edited by Moderator: 20 lines of excessive quoting removed. Trim your quotes, guys.

[raisindot]

Even if it offends true TP zealots, people do not buy computers for their brand name, not any more (except for Apples maybe).
In that regard computers have pretty much joined the low to mid range car crowd, where people also don't give much about brand names any more, but all about features (aka "gadgets") and price.
Finally Bill, to have a "spartan" kind of approach in this is just plain wrong.
If people have a choice between the "Klingon" and the "Enterprise" version of computing, I think its a safe bet which one they'll chose.
It is just wrong to try and encourage the brand to forego technical innovation for the supposed sake of "country boy reliabillity".
Those other brands are by now just as reliable as Thinkpads are.

While the 'average shlub' may, indeed, simply use price as a reason for purchasing a desktop PC at their local CompBuyCity, this is not relevant to the notebook audience. Today, nearly all desktop PCs are generic; the differences have to do more with marketing, rebates, and shelf space than anything else.

And while some notebook buyers will look solely for price, the vast majority of discriminating buyers do not use price solely as a criteria. While there may not be that many differences between your average IBM Aptiva and a Compaq or Dell other than color, there are HUGE differences between any given Thinkpad, Compaq, Toshiba and Dell laptop. TP quality is simply heads and tails above the competitors, and most people who use them understand this, and thus become brand loyalists.

Real life examples: I work for a huge national bank that has recently switched laptop vendors from IBM to Dell. In spite of the fact that the 'approved laptops' are the higher-end, more portable models that are faster and more feature-rich than the Thinkpads they replaced, EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW who has been forced to switch from a TP to a Dell has complained about the shoddy construction, lousy keyboard, and terrible ergonomics of the Dells. Indeed, some people who have been given a choice of getting a new Dell or sticking with their T20's and 30's have opted to stick with the older technology.

That's brand loyalty built from quality. You'll never hear anyone complaining about having to switch from an Aptiva to a Dell desktop of comparable features. But when you take someone's TP away, them's fightin' words.

More anecodtal evidence: I commute every day to my job in Boston. And every day I look at the laptops people are using. From my informal survey, I'd say that 10% are Powerbooks, 20% are Dells, 10% are miscellaneous brands and 60% are Thinkpads. True, most of these people get their laptops through work, but in conversations with some of these people I notice that the people who actually bought their own laptops are nearly always TP loyalists (although they tend to be using older models).

Clearly, IBM doesn't have brand loyalty across its product line. But the TP certainly does have a hard-core audience of millions of users who would blanch at using anything else. Just ask anyone here has been stuck with another brand and they'll tell you that if they had a choice, they'd stick with a less-powerful TP over a more powerful piece of ToshDellComp junk anyday.

Just my .02

Jeff in Boston

[f1hp]

Good Grief! Remember this?....: "640k RAM ought to be more than enough for anyone..." -Bill Gates (paraphrased statement of a lifetime ago...)!!

ps- today's "gadget" is tomorrow's "necessity"...

[stgreek]

ps- today's "gadget" is tomorrow's "necessity"...

Sometimes this is true but extra memory (or a bigger HD) is not a gadget, it is a vital part of the PC. Gadget is something that emulates a different device and is therefore not necessary. Eg tv tuner on a pc, camera on a phone, you get the point. These will never be a necessity, since the original item (tv, camera) will always be better.

[f1hp]

...hence the quotes around "gadget", etc... What's your point?

& BTW: the BMW currently has one of the spottier reliability ratings (unlike the relatively 'bulletproof' Honda/Toyota offerings. See CU.)

[gazingwa]

BMW Big Money Wasted (lets see how many people i [censored] of with this)

For me, I'll stick with my Buick even though I am often made fun of for driving "grandpa's car" I like it and it is reliable.

[JaneL]

OK, I have a Buick (2001 LeSabre) *and* a BMW. But the BMW only has two wheels...

[stgreek]

...hence the quotes around "gadget", etc... What's your point?

It refers to the OP, which considers such gadgets necessities....

[Bob Collins]

Nonny is a Beemer chick!

T22, nothing fancy as previously said, and a BMW (1995) with 140,000 and going. I'll tell ya about quality.

So, got the Thinkpad, BMW, and getting an older Powerbook G4 for fun and the OSX (BSD based). Good stuff and get the tools you need.

[gazingwa]

How about a volve 940Turbo with 220,000 miles on it, my brother in law has one of them
Or... a Ford f350 with 180,000 mile on it that were used and abused by pulling bobcat equipment around, my company has a few of them still going strong.

Nissan Altima with 160,000 miles, Father In-Law who is the hardes person on a car i have ever seen and doesn't understand the meaning of maintenance,
140,000 miles=quality???

Granted my Buick Century only has 43,000 but i gaurentee it will last to at least 150,000 without any major problems

[Bob Collins]

140,000 miles=quality???

Oh, I forgot to mention my miles are a little different than most. It is a 4-banger and it sees 7,000 rpm *EVERY* day many times a day, and it has done a dozen or so track days and high performance driving schools. I am very hard on a car.

My sister's BMW, same model as mine, has over 250,000 and is going strong.