Give up on Lenovo?

Message

killer · #31 Post by **killer** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:55 am

pianowizard wrote: Most people post on a forum only when they have a problem and need help fixing it.

Yes, you make a fair point, although from what I have seen most things on here are not so much 'moans and groans' as requests for help. Very often the questions are software related e.g. Rescue & Recovery or Access Connections. Maybe it is just my perception but words like 'crap' and 'pile of sh*t' don't appear that regularly.

thinkpad1 · #32 Post by **thinkpad1** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:11 pm

pianowizard wrote:But that's because you bought the least reliable Thinkpad ever made (the T40/41/42). I don't understand why you held onto it for so long. You should have sold it long ago, when even a parts machine was still worth something.

Ha. What's considered the MOST reliable then (by you)?

goofyGAguy · #33 Post by **goofyGAguy** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:17 pm

The T43/T60 with Intel GPU.

dr_st · #34 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:50 pm

pianowizard wrote:In other words, I am giving up on Lenovo not because they have ruined the Thinkpad line, but because they have been unable to stay ahead of their competitors.

Very nicely put.

To me, in some ways, they are still sufficiently ahead. You know me - I'm all about input ergonomics - trackpoint and keyboard. And I have a particular set of preferences, which at this point allows me to stay almost exclusively with Lenovo. DELL's business laptops come somewhat close, although their trackpoint is said to be not as good.

pianowizard wrote:But that's because you bought the least reliable Thinkpad ever made (the T40/41/42). I don't understand why you held onto it for so long. You should have sold it long ago, when even a parts machine was still worth something.

Judging by him saying that he paid $300 for it, it is clear that he had bought it when it was already very old and very used. I imagine this is the one discussed in this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74620

He was probably led to believe that the machine would last for a very long time, and got a lemon. It happens and it's annoying when it happens to you.

Surely the machine still holds some value - it works, it has a nice SXGA+ screen. So the USB ports don't work as 2.0? Not a deal breaker for some, and some now how to fix it. I bet can still be sold to someone.

thinkpad1 wrote:What's considered the MOST reliable then (by you)?

That would depend on your price range. Out of the not-so-outdated machines, T60 and T61 with Intel GPU have been proven quite reliable. All the newer ones have not been on the market enough to know.

DrThinkpad · #35 Post by **DrThinkpad** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:59 pm

pianowizard wrote: But that's because you bought the least reliable Thinkpad ever made (the T40/41/42). I don't understand why you held onto it for so long. You should have sold it long ago, when even a parts machine was still worth something.

Isn't that true for this forum also? Most people post on a forum only when they have a problem and need help fixing it.

I have to say I disagree with the T4x series being the least reliable. They were for sure the most fragile by quite a margin, but least reliable ? I don't think we can even classify whole series for being the most/the less reliable...

As for people posting only when they have problems, I have to say that saddens me but I concur...

alofano · #36 Post by **alofano** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:08 am

LodenCorp wrote:I'm getting tired of the bad deals and want a T510 already for a good deal. I'm thinking about getting a summer sale deal with Sony. I like the Sony laptops, especially the EC and EB ones but I really like the aesthetic look of the barrel power button on the side. Anyways they're fast, decent battery (3.5 hours), and big screen/blu-ray. Do you think it's worth it over a Lenovo thinkpad? I'm not talking about durability. Thanks

I'm starting to think like you.

Radioguy · #37 Post by **Radioguy** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:33 pm

I'm also a fan of that button, and like the multimedia mindset that Sony usually designs their models around. However, in my experience, Sony drops support of a model much sooner that Lenovo does. That said, Lenovo has trimmed back a bit since the IBM days.

Given the overall selection from the major brands, I still put Sony up there with Lenovo. Panasonic has to be up there due to the Toughbooks, although I find them poor in aesthetics.

Falcon63 · #38 Post by **Falcon63** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:31 pm

Radioguy wrote:I'm also a fan of that button, and like the multimedia mindset that Sony usually designs their models around. However, in my experience, Sony drops support of a model much sooner that Lenovo does. That said, Lenovo has trimmed back a bit since the IBM days.

Given the overall selection from the major brands, I still put Sony up there with Lenovo. Panasonic has to be up there due to the Toughbooks, although I find them poor in aesthetics.

How much do toughbooks run for and where do you go to buy a new one? I know some people that really needs one, as they are really tough on there IBM laptops...

~Steven

Radioguy · #39 Post by **Radioguy** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:47 pm

http://www.panasonic.com/business/tough ... ghbook.asp

Model info: http://panasonic.net/avc/toughbook/

They are pricey. I mainly see them in the hands of company reps in the field (with cellular pc cards), or police. They aren't widely available to retail, but you can get them from some.

#40 Post by **bill bolton** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:12 pm

Radioguy wrote:Panasonic has to be up there due to the Toughbooks, although I find them poor in aesthetics.

They are also generally unpopular with the support teams who have to maintain them.... harder to break but MUCH harder to repair once broken.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Radioguy · #41 Post by **Radioguy** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:10 pm

That's not surprising when you think about the layers of protection. Their equivalent of the HMM must span volumes.

ajkula66 · #42 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:58 am

Radioguy wrote:

They aren't widely available to retail, but you can get them from some.

In the U.S. Panasonic is geared towards large business and government customers, whether one likes it or not. Their offering - when it comes to models - is also very different from they sell in Japan and to a lesser extent, in Europe.

Having owned several and used/maintained many more of these machines, I'll say that the build quality is exemplary but anyone coming from ThinkPads (generally the most user-upgradeable laptops that I'm aware of) and expecting to treat a ToughBook or Let's Note in the same manner is in for an extremely rude awakening.

Support and drivers are another point where one might start pulling his/hers hair out. If you're unlucky enough to own a non-U.S. machine in this country, there will be no support whatsoever. If you're intent using a wireless driver from a CF-R4 Mk 4 on a CF-R4 Mk 3 don't even bother downloading it because it's not going to work, although the cards are the same. And no, I'm not kidding. Want to use recovery DVD from CF-Y5 on a CF-W5? Not in this life. You get the picture.

Having said all of that, for their intended use, ToughBooks are hard to fault. I've seen examples that have survived falls from the top of telephone poles and were still running with no noticeable damage once the tech landed. Like most things extreme, they call for an acquired taste which is something most people don't have the need - or patience - for. However, if your requirement is a 4:3 laptop with a 1000 nit screen brightness, you've got nowhere else to go...

Personally, I've always felt that CF-Rx series would've been a great success on this continent and never really understood why Panasonic kept it - for the most part - as Far East offering only. If I could locate a CF-R6 with a U.S. or UK keyboard and original restore media in English, I'd never ever look for a small laptop again. Seriously. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

Having just sold a very-high-end version of CF-52, I'll admit that it was an excellent piece of equipment, but that neither my wife nor myself found the use for a W500 in the suit of armour...and that after a decade of exposure to Panasonics I have yet to acquire a taste for their "full-size" offerings...

#43 Post by **ZaZ** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:28 am

I always wanted a Y7 or Y8 back in the day. Three and a half pounds with a more palatable 14" SXGA+ LCD, what's not to love? I could just never justify spending that kind of money for a notebook. I guess my X200 will have make do.

Radioguy · #44 Post by **Radioguy** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:53 am

ajkula66 wrote:However, if your requirement is a 4:3 laptop with a 1000 nit screen brightness, you've got nowhere else to go...

I have to say, that out of that post - with all the negative aspects known and understood - this remains a selling point. Most especially to a ThinkPad owner.

thinkpad1 · #45 Post by **thinkpad1** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:17 pm

My Thinkpad's DVD-ROM burner isn't working again or is being really stubborn with media when I know the media works fine in a normal computer. I sure despise this machine.... I'll never touch another T-series... especially T41... Piece of garbage.

#46 Post by **BillMorrow** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:46 pm

thinkpad1 wrote:My Thinkpad's DVD-ROM burner isn't working again or is being really stubborn with media when I know the media works fine in a normal computer. I sure despise this machine.... I'll never touch another T-series... especially T41... Piece of garbage.

that T41 is a bit long in the tooth..
the CD could be dirty or just tired..
try dusting it off..

the T41 was really good when it was the current model..

garbage..? not really.. just old and maybe in need of some TLC..

i think you might be a little frustrated..

as for CD's in general, i have experienced similar results on many CD drives..
some really expensive that would then just be stubborn and un-cooperative..
but these were mostly in desktops, not thinkpads..

thinkpad1 · #47 Post by **thinkpad1** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:37 pm

BillMorrow wrote: that T41 is a bit long in the tooth..
the CD could be dirty or just tired..
try dusting it off..

the T41 was really good when it was the current model..

garbage..? not really.. just old and maybe in need of some TLC..

i think you might be a little frustrated..

as for CD's in general, i have experienced similar results on many CD drives..
some really expensive that would then just be stubborn and un-cooperative..
but these were mostly in desktops, not thinkpads..

The optical drive has been defective for a while, I guess. Not reading various DVDs ... no pattern to it that I can tell. I checked the DVD in another computer and it's fine.

I noticed on ebay the optical drives going for over $40 when you account for shipping, too. Yikes!

Yeah, I guess I'm a bit frustrated... I need my desktop built!

Do the optical drives ever get listed in the Marketplace on their own? I just know if I called local places, the vendor would be charging something outrageous. I know it's a laptop part but I believe it will be even more than on ebay.

I suspect something like the sensor is not working properly. The drive will blink repeatedly and I'll hear the whirring noise but then it just won't be read at all.

#48 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:19 am

Do the optical drives ever get listed in the Marketplace on their own?.

sometimes..
post a Want To Buy post..
someone will have a spare..

maybe even for the cost of postage only..

I just know if I called local places, the vendor would be charging something outrageous. I know it's a laptop part but I believe it will be even more than on ebay

next search ebay..
but be sure to get one that you can return if it, too, does not work..

which brings up another question..
do you have a friend who has a T40 series thinkpad that you can try the CD drive in or try that persons CD drive in your T41..?

#49 Post by **ZaZ** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:06 am

BillMorrow wrote:but be sure to get one that you can return if it, too, does not work..

If you pay with Paypal/CC you can almost always return an item that shows up not working unless it specifically says it's not working, even if it's marked "AS-IS" or no returns. They tend to error on the side of the buyer. That's been my experience.

I'd note a T6x drive will work in a T4x machine for testing purposes or vice versa.

thinkpad1 · #50 Post by **thinkpad1** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:43 pm

BillMorrow wrote:which brings up another question..
do you have a friend who has a T40 series thinkpad that you can try the CD drive in or try that persons CD drive in your T41..?

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone locally who has one. 'Wish I knew someone from here who was nearby!

I just didn't want to spend much on this laptop since it has so many issues. I did get a usb pcpcia card to work so now I have USB 2.0 support! I guess my re-assembly job wasn't as bad as I thought...lol!

I am just waiting until I finish my deskop build. Then I don't need to rely 100% on the T41 as my main machine. I still have a R51 to work on though so I'm curious whether I can fix the panel/lcd assembly once I get one. There's nothing else wrong with it as far as I know so I'll have a spare T41 eventually. However, that's another expense and it looks like I'm not going to find anything lower than $90 / $100 so it'll have to wait until I have the desktop ready.

I think the optical drive in the T41 is too unreliable. It's too flaky as certain DVDs/CDs are not readable. The same DVD will work in other computers. I can test my R51 but I think it will work. Why would I test the DVD in another Thinkpad anyway? I tried cleaning the tray with a lint-free microfiber cloth but it didn't make any difference.

The only other idea I had would be copy the DVD and hope the newly created copy would be readable.

#51 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:19 am

Have a look at our R52 machines on www.theboardroom.info
It's not only got USB2.0 but also Firewire.

pianowizard · #52 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:27 am

thinkpad1 wrote:I sure despise this machine.... I'll never touch another T-series... especially T41... Piece of garbage.

Would you mind explaining why you are still holding onto this piece of garbage? You were unlucky and got yourself a lemon, that's all. Not all Thinkpads are that unreliable.

(Those of you wondering why I am so harsh, please look up thinkpad1's previous posts both in this thread and in other threads.)

ThinkRob · #53 Post by **ThinkRob** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:49 am

Just wondering, but would this troubled T41 be the same one that you purchased used with at least one known defect, and/or later dropped something on (rendering it temporarily unbootable)?

thinkpad1 · #54 Post by **thinkpad1** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:13 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Have a look at our R52 machines on http://www.theboardroom.info
It's not only got USB2.0 but also Firewire.

I just thought if I'm going to further spend money on the R51 to get a Flexview screen and preferably at least 1400 x 1050 as I'm used to this resolution now.

I guess you don't have any of those yet?

thinkpad1 · #55 Post by **thinkpad1** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:20 pm

pianowizard wrote:Would you mind explaining why you are still holding onto this piece of garbage? You were unlucky and got yourself a lemon, that's all. Not all Thinkpads are that unreliable.

(Those of you wondering why I am so harsh, please look up thinkpad1's previous posts both in this thread and in other threads.)

Because it's my main computer right now, unfortunately? I won't deny that I might have been unfair. It's probably because I haven't had the funds to toss it or buy a new one. However, I just bought a cheap R51 for $50 that has a screen issue I hope I can solve by getting a new panel or lcd assembly. I can re-use the RAM if I don't sell the T41 or I can take the RAM out and sell the T41 with the original 512MB RAM. I even had some offers but now I have to inform of the newer issues.

I concede that the general consensus is that these older Thinkpads are good solid machines and not too bad to work with (maintenance wise). Unfortunately, my experience has been limited so my only perspective has been a negative one so far. I'm not suggesting that it wouldn't change if I had the opportunity to own or work on more Thinkpads.

Hopefully, I can try to salvage the R51 because besides the screen problem, it doesn't seem to have other issues (knock on wood).

thinkpad1 · #56 Post by **thinkpad1** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:29 pm

Looks like I can't get these optical drives anymore.... so, either eat up a rip off locally or keep a defective optical drive.... I'm glad I didn't upgrade this stinkpad any more than I did. 'Can't wait to finish my desktop build so this craptop can be retired!

twillis449 · #57 Post by **twillis449** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:13 am

Some earlier posts said that they gave up on thinkpads and were switching to Apples because of Windows. Well, I'll agree about the Windows comments - I'd throw my machine in the garbage if I had to put up with Windows annoyances every day. But I don't feel like paying Steve Jobs about 2x what I'd pay for a laptop with approximately equivalent hardware but a Windows OS. Mac OS of course is just a *nix with a fancy front end GUI which attempts to send me to the Apple store as often as possible! However modern linuxes such as Ubuntu are pretty user-friendly for installation and usage and can be installed on just about any Thinkpad except maybe the latest and greatest. So I personally prefer to keep away from Apple and just install linux on my laptops.

dr_st · #58 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:31 am

twillis449 wrote:Well, I'll agree about the Windows comments - I'd throw my machine in the garbage if I had to put up with Windows annoyances every day.

But you don't mind putting up with Linux annoyances daily.

AMATX · #59 Post by **AMATX** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:49 am

Not to mention that Windows 7 appears to be much more stable than earlier releases.

ThinkRob · #60 Post by **ThinkRob** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:04 pm

dr_st wrote:But you don't mind putting up with Linux annoyances daily.

Every operating system is annoying. It's just a question of which set of annoyances you prefer.

Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Re: Give up on Lenovo?

Who is online