Next Laptop not a Thinkpad

[jasonjason]

Feeling sad that my next notebook may not be a Thinkpad after having used TPs for the past 8 years.

Right now, I'm looking for a T60 replacement, because of going back to school again.
Didn't realise that the trend for battery life was getting poorer and poorer. My 9 cell T40 running Word and Navigator could last about 6+ hrs. My 9 cell T60 running Word and Firefox lasts about 3.75 hrs nowadays. Reading the reviews indicates that the W510 (15" preferred) I could get as offered by school would have battery life even less than that at about 3.5hrs.

I could get the school offered T410 which is specced with discrete graphics which I don't need and the i7, which sucks power quite a bit. Not sure how long the power would be on this, but won't be great, and it's 14" which is not my primary choice.

I could buy a T510 from Lenovo direct and pay more for a much less specced machine, and have to buy the bundled software MS Office and Adobe CS5 separately, which is another few hundred bucks as well. From reviews, the battery life is probably going to max out at about 4hrs+ even on surfing and text documents alone.

I could buy another battery, which is what I have for my current T60, but I would rather not have to carry a spare batt if I could avoid it.

Consequently, after spending too much time scouring the forums for 'real' battery life, I'm seriously considering the dark-side of MacBook Pro 15" or even 17" which has at least 6-7 hours, if you force it to use the integrated card.

The price isn't too much of an issue, but screen size and battery life are.
Any way to get around this? Or any corrections to my battery life estimates?

[ausmike]

Jason..... nei how...
FYI ,,,,,,,,not SURE which model of T60 series you have had ,,,
but the W500 will fit most of ALL the T60 series parts ...(I have twoof these..)
eg ..battery , keybaords etc..HOWEVER...the Dvd writer is one thing that WONT FIT....due to SATAIII connectors for w500...
As far as W510 - am sure its the same common platform as W500 series etc ,,,, and a far I know the T510 series are just about same as W series machiens except they are way cheaper for nearly all thesame parts!

Power consumptions - Battery Usage ..............is very "relative" ,,,,has lots ways of 'extend' battery life - if user knows how to! eg I have never run out of Battery Power on my once monthly flights from SIN 2 EWR (nons top Singapore to Newark flights) on my W5xx machine(s) and I play my OWN movies always!!
AND W500 - if you get the i7 Series would be 100+times faster to boot !!! especially in LINUX! ok slight porkie pie on the numbers but the point is IF YOU WANT LINUX+WIN64+OSX + few other OS's ,,,,,
thinkpads ONLY ONES that do it WITH EASEEEEEEEEEEE

but then ,,, its alwys good to find things out ,,,,, from other Mfgers ,,,, lots of GREAT laptops around!

nope not a IBM Nor LeNOOOvo sales person. Just know what worked for me ; la


>>oops hit wrong button - B4 fnishing post > thus the redited mode
Ciao bela....

[dr_st]

Didn't realise that the trend for battery life was getting poorer and poorer. My 9 cell T40 running Word and Navigator could last about 6+ hrs. My 9 cell T60 running Word and Firefox lasts about 3.75 hrs nowadays. Reading the reviews indicates that the W510 (15" preferred) I could get as offered by school would have battery life even less than that at about 3.5hrs.

Your battery must have simply lost some of its capacity with age. When new, I could easily get 6+ hours on a 9 cell on my integrated graphics T60, and still can get 4+ without breaking a sweat after 3 years. But some batteries degrade faster than others. Take a look at the Power Manager and compare the full charge capacity of your battery with the design capacity.

The W510 is not the machine to look at, if you value battery life. It has very powerful dedicated GPU, for graphics-intensive tasks, clearly not your cup of tea, if you find even the T410 with dedicated graphics too much. T510 with integrated graphics might be more in your ballpark, and you should get 5+ hours with the 9-cell battery. However keep in mind, that the machine may look and feel a lot different, since it is 16:9 compared to your current 4:3 T60.

[jasonjason]

Hi dr_st, so does that mean that I can use my current T60 battery with the T510? From what I understood looking at the website, it took a different battery. It is currently in decent condition able to take 91% of design capacity, so don't think that was the issue for low battery life.

ausmike, pretty amazed you can swing that with the W510 on a movie as well! Will go do some more checking to see how long the T510 lasts with integrated card and an i5, might be decent enough life.

Do SSDs or 7200s take more juice to operate?

[dr_st]

Hi dr_st, so does that mean that I can use my current T60 battery with the T510? From what I understood looking at the website, it took a different battery.

It is indeed a different battery, they are not compatible.

It is currently in decent condition able to take 91% of design capacity, so don't think that was the issue for low battery life.

You never said which T60 you have. I assume it's the 15" model, probably with SXGA+ or UXGA Flexview LCDs and the ATI GPU. If that's the case, then I can believe 3.5 hours on the 9-cell, especially if the screen is on maximum brightness. Also check that the CPU is in "balanced" mode which allows it to downclock when idle - this saves a lot of juice.

[Danoc]

Consequently, after spending too much time scouring the forums for 'real' battery life, I'm seriously considering the dark-side of MacBook Pro 15" or even 17" which has at least 6-7 hours, if you force it to use the integrated card.

The price isn't too much of an issue, but screen size and battery life are.
Any way to get around this? Or any corrections to my battery life estimates?

Indeed the battery is the main reason why I can't find a suitable Thinkpad now. For example the battery life of the T410s is very disappointed, by comparison with the Macbook 15". Otherwise it would be the perfect laptop. Same problem with the 1000$ Thinkpads that can't beat against the Macbook 13".

However it seems that the x series gets really good autonomy. But more sacrifices and more pricy.

My 2008 4.5-pound 13" Macbook Pro lasts 4:30 on battery (200 cycles). Pretty satisfied.

[Harryc]

From my sig, "T410 2516-CTO ... Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz i5". 'Nuf said .

[ausmike]

My T60P= 2007-8gu (used to be for personal use) ,,,,,its the one with Ati card ....but gave it to my nephew for his college use - which is now curently OUT OF ACTION due to bios mess-up

I have had the 9 cell battery x2 , Ac/DC adaptor all worked and nicely on a W series > 2nd HD adaptor is the only thing that wont work due to SATAIII connections in newer W Series ,,,,,,

but as a i said BATTERY POWER = USERS CHOICE ,,,, how much you want to shut-down to 'converse' battery power. DURING my flights i jsut about shutdown everything - exceot disply and HD , and 9 hr flight - EASY on a 9Cell battery !!!

But then ,,, what I know - am just a smiple non facy user - know what works well for me

**** Harryc comments *****
AGREE - T410 loaded and MAc PRO = one of nicest machiens
Have had the pleasure to play around with the latest 15ch i7 mac ,,,, boy its cool beans !!!

Cheers

[jasonjason]

ausmike, I have heard a few people on this forum say that they have the secret to extending battery life through their usage patterns. Could you elaborate on what exactly you mean?

For me, when I'm using my laptop away from desk, I run the following specs:

1. Brightness - 2/3 brightness.
2. Wifi/Mobile Broadband - Usually on Mobile Broadband, switching off when I'm not browsing.
3. Applications and running processes - Minimal, though the browser will have at least 20 - 30 tabs open.
4. Bluetooth - Never on.
5. Processor Speed - Slowest, based on the standard TV power manager software.
6. Sleep when I step away from the laptop.

Is are some other tricks I can do to extend battery life?

[dr_st]

Is are some other tricks I can do to extend battery life?

Yes. Turn the screen off, and don't use the laptop. Or better yet, turn the laptop off.

But seriously - biggest juice eaters, maybe not in this order, are LCD, CPU, wireless and GPU.

LCD - dim it as much as you can for it still to be comfortable

CPU - if you don't do CPU-intensive tasks, keep it locked to lowest speed (many Thinkpads default to it when on battery)

GPU - there are some tools to downclock it / activate power-saving features, though they are not as configurable and their effect not as visible as those on the CPU. Bottom line is no matter what you try - a dedicated GPU will probably consume more juice than an integrated one.

Wireless - again - if you don't need it, turn it off, but most of the time we do need it, and turning it off/on every 3 minutes when you want to navigate to a different page is just silly. However, do know that mobile broadband (cellular) typically consumes much more power than the WiFi, especially considering WiFi adapters also have power management features.

Things like turning the screen off or putting the laptop to sleep when not using it I find irrelevant. The question here is how to prolong the battery life while actually using the laptop.

[pianowizard]

I also remove the optical drive if I don't need it.

And having just one stick of RAM consumes a bit less power than two.

[ausmike]

Yip Dr* is all correct hail to doc- sees & read many of his posts - contributions 2 this forum - I can say I never have had one point I disagree. ...... But than what I know;-)

Also wHat piano* said is all good ........

So far 15+ yrs on road rail planes auto airports and hotels ... Blah blah AND 3mil+ miles after lots heartaches and broken laptops ... -and no mention of broken dreams .....

Few tips from an 0old fart -

Uninstall TVT software - I mean all of them......
Close kill every non- needed procc's & services etc
Shut down all power to any hardware not using - even thinks like cooling fan if u brave enough!- no modem no bt no wifi no HD cache etc etc
Copy movies to Hd -no DVD drives - (all T& WSeries are slot load drives)

Buy LV rated Hardwares -memory - single chip ONLY ; LV HD's etc etc

AND

ALWAYS - full charge AND fully discharge your battery ( most critical part)

I know this topic has kinda got of track some what from orig. Subject matter,,,,,,,
But I do hope it helps some

Cheers ... Time 2snore on Emirates flight

[jasonjason]

Harry, Danoc,

How would you compare the TP to the Mac? I know that is an apples and oranges question, and I've read the experience of switchers, but just from your TP to Mac perspective.

Given the relative weight and screen size, trying to decide between a T510 or a Mac 17". Originally getting a T510, but 17" is pretty attractive. I will have to walk around with laptop a bit, but not too concerned about weight, or price.

I value big screen and long battery life (while weight of laptop not an issue, would prefer not to carry brick and/or spare battery).

Usage Pattern: MS Office (all of them), Surf. Rarely video, never game.

Thanks for any input.

[Danoc]

I didn't use really much TP, but R and X. I carry my Macbook everywhere since January 2009. Still mint condition. And I am not the kind of user who pays attention to his laptop, like buying protection, avoiding scratchs, etc. ...

Advantages for the Thinkpad:
- keyboard
- trackpoint
- enclosure (don't like the magnetic one on Macbooks, not enough reliable)
- hinges
- ports and bay
- docking station

Advantages for the Macbook:
- trackpad
- they tend to have a good dedicated GPU
- stellar batterie life, either consumption or cycles
- thin and light

What I feel identical (or almost) for both:
- no flex
- sturdy design, endurance
- quiet
- expensive (Lenovo recently manages to drop prices, whereas Apple keeps high price tags, especially for middle and end-products)

What I can't say:
- screen quality, depends on the model: the 13" Macbook doesn't have unfortunately the antiglare option, T510 is 16/9, ...
- OS: depends on the user, I like both Win and OS X. But be careful, MS Office on Mac is sluggish, maybe its 2011 version will be better, the beta I tried was at least. Too early to say if VBA will be well implemented.
- hinges on Macbooks: I have always been suspicious, we can reasonably think they are weaker, but hard to say since they are hidden. Also thanks to the Thinkpad's hinges, the first line of pixels is at a higher level (above the sea level if you want!) than on Macbook. As a result, when you sit on a table, your back is more straight, in better shape. I can say that a few centimetres all over the year can make a huge difference.

Check what you value the most, and go for it.

[LodenCorp]

- expensive (Lenovo recently manages to drop prices, whereas Apple keeps high price tags, especially for middle and end-products)
.

That's not true. A Lenovo T410 or T510 with an i5 is MUCH cheaper than the Macbook Pro's i5 which retails at $1899.99. I got a i5 with maxed specs for only $1029 with discount and coupon while Macbook's discount, I can get an i5 for $1799.99 without great durability or roll cage.

[Danoc]

That's what I've said in the brackets. They dropped the prices. IBM Thinkpads used to be expensive, the X serie can still be considered as expensive.

And the T510 is half the price of the Macbook Pro 17"!

I remember the price range when I bought a R51 in 2004, versus T serie. That was respectively around 1400 cad, and 2000+ cad. 6 years later, prices are divided by 2!

[dr_st]

I remember the price range when I bought a R51 in 2004, versus T serie. That was respectively around 1400 cad, and 2000+ cad. 6 years later, prices are divided by 2!

Indeed. Unfortunately it just means we pay for it in other ways. Whether it's the quality control (reports of shoddy assembly, machines that are total lemons, etc.), the degrading customer service (being outsourced to God-knows-where, with people who can barely speak the language of the country that they are supposed to be serving, and cannot be of any help with any but the most simple requests), or just cost-cutting on minor things. And that's the story of every area of technology, everywhere.

[LegendaryKA8]

To make a suggestion, it seems like you're looking for a 15" form factor notebook with good battery life as well as a decent GPU, right? Personally, I'd step back from the T/W510 and perhaps take a look at the T/W500? The reason I say this is because both of those support switchable graphics while the newer models(except for the T410s) don't. This allows you to run on an integrated card for better battery life(my T400 with a slightly degraded 9-cell gets 5.5 hours, for example) and a discrete card you can switch to if you need added performance. Also, the T500 and W500 use the same battery form factor as your T60, so that means if you're planning on keeping your older system you can still use its battery in a pinch.

[dr_st]

Also, the T500 and W500 use the same battery form factor as your T60, so that means if you're planning on keeping your older system you can still use its battery in a pinch.

And the same docking station, too.

[jasonjason]

Danoc, KA8, aus, Dr and others, thanks for the many suggestions and valuable tips.

Having spent way too much thinking about this, I think I will default to using the laptop I like best, which is my current T60 which has a nice matte 4:3 screen (didn't realise that the 15.6" T510 lost 0.8 inches of vertical height compared to the old 14", which is really really bad), and is optimised to how I like things, and runs on an optimal (for me) 1024 x 768 screen, albeit a bit small.

Problem is to keep it alive for another 2 years. Perhaps a new battery.

[ausmike]

[quote="dr_st"][quote="LegendaryKA8"]Also, the T500 and W500 use the same battery form factor as your T60, so that means if you're planning on keeping your older system you can still use its battery in a pinch.

And the same docking station, too



And if you lucky enought to have the older T60P/61P ...... they all have the SAME BATTERY !!!.[/[/i

[Danoc]

Problem is to keep it alive for another 2 years. Perhaps a new battery.

Another thing I wanted to add about recent Apple products: because of their miniaturization, lots of heat issues come up. Last week I have lost one Gb of Ram. That's a first. And the Macbook runs very hot underneath when it is on a bed or it's playing video / floating point operations.

I have just been informed of a court action in California about heat issues on ipad http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2367089,00.asp. The new imac get also very warm.

Anyway, I have ordered a L412. I have checked everything and concluded it can meet my requirements. I will post comments on the appropriate forum.

[lead_org]

The Macbook Pro uses the chassis as a heat sink, and the heat exhaust area is blocked off slightly by the hinge of the LCD. In terms of thermal design the Thinkpads is probably the best in its class, not so with the Macbook Pro.

[asiafish]

With the integrated graphics and the screen on half (still very bright) my Core i7 MacBook Pro (15") is good for 8-10 hours.

[asiafish]

The Macbook Pro uses the chassis as a heat sink, and the heat exhaust area is blocked off slightly by the hinge of the LCD. In terms of thermal design the Thinkpads is probably the best in its class, not so with the Macbook Pro.

The new MacBook Pro, at least the Core i7 15" that I have personal experience with, runs very cool in OS X, though it does get hot in Windows where its power management drivers aren't optimized and it ALWAYS runs the discreet GPU.

[Harryc]

Mine runs cool also, and I only run OSX. I have the 15" i5 Macbook Pro.