Does this sentence make sense?

Message

Yakl · #1 Post by **Yakl** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:18 pm

A human being is labeled irrelevant when its primitive mind is incapable of precieving aesthetics but instead is drowning in materialism.

ARD · #2 Post by **ARD** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:37 pm

Labeled irrelevant by whom? Another human being?

Yakl · #3 Post by **Yakl** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:38 pm

Yes, but that's not the frame of focus. I'm just wondering whether this sentence is grammatically and comprehensively sound.
(is the usage of "incapable of precieving aesthetics" in its place?)

dr_st · #4 Post by **dr_st** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:00 am

Well...

There is a spelling mistake. "precieving" should be "perceiving".

Grammatically it seems correct.

As far as semantics go, it depends on the context. I, for instance, don't understand how it is possible to label a human being irrelevant in the general sense, but in some contexts it may make sense.

Yakl · #5 Post by **Yakl** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:36 am

It’s used in a context deducing the irrelevance to a category the sound minded intellectual people. Since the sentence shows inability to detect beauty but instead is interested in shallow standards it should be a low sect category of people.

dr_st · #6 Post by **dr_st** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:30 am

I can generally understand your point, but FWIW, your last post is grammatically incorrect and not very intelligible...

I also don't quite understand what you assistance are trying to achieve here with these questions.

Yakl · #7 Post by **Yakl** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:37 am

It's just a sentence I was trying to translate to english while keeping it's rich meaning, beautiful form and powerful language. But seems like I have failed.

ansible212 · #8 Post by **ansible212** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:54 am

Grammatically correct, but I don't think one 'perceives' aesthetics, 'appreciate aesthetics' might be better, and moreover depending on the context something less literal than aesthetics might be more appropriate (for example, 'the arts'). Other parts of the sentence could do with the same treatment, but again that depends on the context of the original.

Tõnis · #9 Post by **Tõnis** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:37 am

Yakl wrote:A human being is labeled irrelevant when its primitive mind is incapable of precieving aesthetics but instead is drowning in materialism.

I'm no expert on grammar, but I do pay attention to it and write to the best of my ability. While most English speakers could draw conclusions as to what you're trying to say, I think you might be saying too many things in one short sentence. While one could certainly spend a long time crafting a longer, more precise sentence, it could just end up confusing to all but the most astute reader (i.e. one who is very good or one who is willing to read many times). Sometimes several shorter sentences can be used to express something better.

Some may consider a human being primitive and irrelevant if he's materialistic and lacks appreciation for aesthetics.

Though it's one sentence,taken out of context it still leaves some things unclear. For example, why is someone who is primitive irrelevant? But that's okay. Are you simply trying to craft a grammatically perfect sentence which can be taken out of context (like a witty quote or slogan) or is the sentence part of a larger body of writing designed to communicate even more? Are you being poetic? While prose is words in the best order, as Coleridge expressed, poetry is the best words in the best order. But he's referring to the many syntactical options that are available for expressing something (like emotion) and not to grammar. I think an editor would need to know more about your purpose for writing the sentence in order to answer your question about grammar in a more meaningful way.

ansible212 · #10 Post by **ansible212** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:31 pm

Tõnis wrote:Some may consider a human being primitive and irrelevant if he's materialistic and lacks appreciation for aesthetics.

The problem with the above is the use of 'he'.

Tõnis · #11 Post by **Tõnis** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:39 pm

ansible212 wrote:The problem with the above is the use of 'he'.

I disagree. I was taught that the use of "he" in unknown cases is proper English. Grammar isn't about political correctness. A few other pet peeves of mine: when people use "they" in singular unknown cases, for example: "User 'Dana' completed their registration," and when people refer to companies as "they" instead of "it": "Lenovo is a great company; they make great computers." This should be "Lenovo is a great company; it makes great computers."

ansible212 · #12 Post by **ansible212** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:17 pm

Tõnis wrote:I disagree. I was taught that the use of "he" in unknown cases is proper English. Grammar isn't about political correctness. A few other pet peeves of mine: when people use "they" in singular unknown cases, for example: "User 'Dana' completed their registration," and when people refer to companies as "they" instead of "it": "Lenovo is a great company; they make great computers." This should be "Lenovo is a great company; it makes great computers."

Whilst grammatically incorrect, 'they' is preferable IMO. Besides, English is a language constantly in flux which is perhaps its greatest strengths.

killer · #13 Post by **killer** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:46 pm

He he he! I love people commenting on English when they are unsure of correct spelling, syntax, and grammar. Tõnis has a refreshing view and it is based on sense.

English is a wonderful language and has been full of fun for donkeys' years. The world is your lobster ... but please spell it correctly.

Yakl · #14 Post by **Yakl** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:32 pm

I like how some people, no need to mention names, try raising a keen image of themselves by criticizing people on a forum who are either trying to learn gain a better understanding, or just giving point of views. If a forum isn't here to elevate our understanding to a higher level, then where is the place to do so?

And to all other kind replies, I really appreciate your interest. This sentence is a quote from an Arabic poem in which this brief sentence says so much in a beautiful manner, and summarizes my attempt to translate.

killer · #15 Post by **killer** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:51 pm

@Yakl: I hope you are not having a go at me because I have tried very hard to stay off this topic.

In my view, your translation might have been better served by the original text as background. Then we could all have had a go ... which could have been even more fun.

So we have your sterling effort and nothing with which to compare it.

It is up to you to take this to the next level.

Yakl · #16 Post by **Yakl** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:18 pm

I don't really care who you are and neither do I know you so don't take it too personal. I didn't mention a name and neither does the idea of doing so concern me. That being said "fun" is not really the point of this post, neither is it the general purpose of this forum for that matter. I'm not trying to entertain you. My main concern is the answer to my question, moreover if you are an Arabic speaker I would love to reveal the original text to you and also discuss it, otherwise your conception for fun would be somewhat foolish don't you think? Please don’t waste our time and litter our inboxes with replies like the one I adressed. If you have a related answer or point of view you are welcome to state it, but if not… well my point by now is vivid I hope.

Thank you

ansible212 · #17 Post by **ansible212** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:26 am

killer wrote:He he he! I love people commenting on English when they are unsure of correct spelling, syntax, and grammar. Tõnis has a refreshing view and it is based on sense.

English is a wonderful language and has been full of fun for donkeys' years. The world is your lobster ... but please spell it correctly.

Contrary to what you may believe, I am not in the least 'unsure' of the use of English.

#18 Post by **JaneL** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:48 am

Yakl wrote: being said "fun" is not really the point of this post, neither is it the general purpose of this forum for that matter.

You're wrong about the general purpose of this forum. If we weren't having fun, we wouldn't be here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

killer · #19 Post by **killer** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:23 pm

JaneL wrote:You're wrong about the general purpose of this forum. If we weren't having fun, we wouldn't be here.

Thank you, JaneL. It is lovely to have your words of support.

We are here for different reasons; to receive helpful advice, offer advice if we are able, and because it is fun to be part of a Thinkpad community. If people wish to be glum then that's fine, but please don't impose being glum, or too serious, on everyone else.