T23 - now unusably slow

[lemonstar]

I've been trying to isolate the problems with this machine for at least 6 months. The machine hits long stretches when it is very very unresponsive - each mouse click may take minutes to respond to. At other times it runs quite normally. I don't know what sets it off.

The machine runs XP(NTFS) (all up to date) but only has 256M of RAM - it was running fine at one time but the decline seems to me to have been gradual - it's my daughters machine so she has used it far more than I have so I don't know if an XP update or any other software update has caused a step change in machine behaviour. She's 17, Process Explorer runs when you first boot the machine and she knows how to kill off precesses, restart the router, get the wireless link going, etc. so she tends to muddle through without always letting me know when there are problems. Usually we just hit the power button for 10s and reboot. Sometimes it works, often it doesn't. Once I think, we rebooted without the wireless card in (as we weren't using the internet) and the machine seemed to be running fine until we put the wireless card back in. I've since played around with this and not been able to reproduce any link between the slowness problem and the use of the card.

I've run a USB utility to uninstall drivers for hardware we no longer use (lost/broken USB memory sticks, old printers, old cameras, old mp3 players, etc) - that's not made any difference.

I run "process explorer" to see if any rogue processes or applications are hogging the processor - I never see anything and the hardware interrupts are also always low.

I suspect a hardware or driver problem.

I've run memtest86+ v4.10 for several hours - no problems reported.
I've run the latest Fujitsu hard disk test (1.12.0.0) - no problems reported (that's a replacement drive I put in the machine several years ago)
I've updated the drivers to the Belkin wireless card but I get the slow machine problems even when I boot without the wireless card in. I did read somewhere on here (I think) that someone had used drivers for the chipset on their wireless card (instead of the card manufacturers drivers) and that that had helped solve a problem.

Often I can hear what sounds like gentle rain falling as the hard drive is being accessed when the machine is running slow but Process Explorer doesn't show any particular process hogging the processor. I disabled the indexing service. I do think this is something to do with the problem but process explorer can show 85-90% for System Idle and still not respond to mouse clicks. Are there any other services I can do without. I've run a utility to unhook extra menu items that many applications add to explorer's right-click menu (e.g. winzip). I always install and run WinPatrol on all my machines so I get to know when apps try to install start-up programs/services or toolbars, BHO's etc.

Basic hard disc checks I've done are checked to make sure there there is sufficient Virtual Memory allocated, I've defragged the disc (30G used out of 40G), used CCleaner and Spybot to clean up the caches, unwanted files, clean the registry, check for malware, etc. I run Avira and Zone Alarm (but disabling them doesn't solve the problem and ZA logging is disabled)

I've run the machine without the CD/DVD drivebay removed just to see if that is a causing a problem but it hasn't made any difference. I'm thinking of wiping the disk and re-installing XP or maybe trying Ubuntu(need to look into that) - just to see if it suggests a fault with the hardware. I'm running out of ideas - does anyone have any suggestions?

cheers
Neil

[RealBlackStuff]

All you need to do is get hold of 2 pieces of 512MB PC133 SODIMM on eBay or the likes, and replace the 256MB in that poor T23.
No wonder XP is nearly choking to death with only 256MB!
It'll run VERY happy with 1GB of RAM.

[pianowizard]

Replace Avira with Avast. Doing that sped up my 500MHz/256MB 240Z big time.

[Neil]

Another option would be eliminate AV software altogether. See How to Make Windows Run Faster than Linux.

[Majestic]

Neil, if you are using the Belkin wireless software that came with the card, try uninstalling it and use the built in Windows wireless utility to manage your wireless connections.

Also try running MalwareBytes to see if the system is clean. It may have some malware that your other scanners are missing. Here is a link to the freeware download.....

http://www.techspot.com/downloads/4716- ... lware.html

If all else fails, I would do a clean reinstall of XP.

[lemonstar]

All you need to do is get hold of 2 pieces of 512MB PC133 SODIMM on eBay or the likes, and replace the 256MB in that poor T23.
No wonder XP is nearly choking to death with only 256MB!
It'll run VERY happy with 1GB of RAM.

As I am on the verge of giving it the bullet I'd put this idea on the back burner BUT I know it has run for several years without a problem. It crossed my mind that an XP update or some other software update had put demands on the machine that it could no longer cope with - that's just speculation though. Anyway - I saw some cheap RAM on Amazon (cheaper than ebuyers extra value!) and decided to give it one last chance - I have a T22 that wouldn't say no to some extra RAM so nothing to lose.

[lemonstar]

Replace Avira with Avast. Doing that sped up my 500MHz/256MB 240Z big time.

I switched from Avast to Avira for exactly that reason. Previously I'd used AVG until their disasterous version 8!

[lemonstar]

Neil, if you are using the Belkin wireless software that came with the card, try uninstalling it and use the built in Windows wireless utility to manage your wireless connections.

Also try running MalwareBytes to see if the system is clean. It may have some malware that your other scanners are missing. Here is a link to the freeware download.....

http://www.techspot.com/downloads/4716- ... lware.html

If all else fails, I would do a clean reinstall of XP.

I've completely uninstalled the Belkin software and it's working but still as slow as ever. I'm currently running the malwarebytes tool - I knew of it but because I've used spybot S&D, ccleaner and ad-aware on a regular basis for several years I didn't think I needed another. Anyway its running on all 3 machine I have as I type. It's logged 2 items so far but I won't know what they are until it finishes. I've found false results before - I used to send the files I didn't believe were infected off to AVG and in all cases they confirmed them as false results. I also try individual files out by sending them to http://virusscan.jotti.org/en-GB - it can handle files up to 20M - it submits your files to about 20 on-line virus scanners (Kaspersky, Trend, Sophos, F-Prot, etc., etc., ) - that usually gives me some idea if I might have something to worry about. Sometimes different scanners I've used pick up the files that another scanner has quarantined! Anyway will be interesting to see what happens. In the slow running mode that the machine is in at the moment it seems to work for 5s (I can see the files scanned count quickly increment in the malwarebyte app) then it stops for 20s - it repeats this pattern of behaviour but Process Explorer doesn't pick up on anything unusual happening.

[lemonstar]

Another option would be eliminate AV software altogether. See How to Make Windows Run Faster than Linux.

Okay, I managed a jaundiced smirk at the suggestions in that article but I was thinking not so long ago about the practicalities of having a machine that never connects to the Internet (no firewall, no antivirus) - I'd use it for Office apps mainly but the task of updating the OS, office apps, acquiring and installing drivers for peripherals, etc and the need to share files on an internal network meant that it would probably be too much like hard work maintaining it and also fraught with loopholes.

[RealBlackStuff]

FYI: the T23 RAM will almost certainly NOT work in your T22.
The T22 needs low density PC100 Sodimms, and only very, very few PC133 low density (8 chips per side, 16 total) Sodimms might also work in a PC100 machine! Most PC133 are high density (4 chips per side, 8 total).

[lemonstar]

FYI: the T23 RAM will almost certainly NOT work in your T22.
The T22 needs low density PC100 Sodimms, and only very, very few PC133 low density (8 chips per side, 16 total) Sodimms might also work in a PC100 machine! Most PC133 are high density (4 chips per side, 8 total).

Yes - I'd forgotten about that. Ah well. I don't want to see this T23 die - it's perfectly okay for what we need atm. Having said that I have up to about £500 to spend and was thinking about a new machine but the 3 Thinkpads I've bought have been so good I've decided to look at some T60's on ebay for around £200-300. I've used a T60 for a <6 months and much preferred it to the VIOA they made me use - gah - graphics chipset used to overheat, random shutdowns, failure to boot, etc., etc.,

I don't know anything about the newer Thinkpads - a friend had an R50(?) that he used to take abroad all the time - what are the laterday Thinkpad classics? Any models with a poor reputation? The newish Lenovo G555 I've seen reviewed in 2 magazines this month is not impressing anyone from what I read.

[nikki605]

I don't know anything about the newer Thinkpads - a friend had an R50(?) that he used to take abroad all the time - what are the laterday Thinkpad classics? Any models with a poor reputation? The newish Lenovo G555 I've seen reviewed in 2 magazines this month is not impressing anyone from what I read.

Check out the T4x0/T5x0 Forum for some real user input and comments on the new T series:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=45

I recently bought a T410 to replace my 9 year old T21 and I love it.

[RealBlackStuff]

The T60 is a great machine, as is its slightly cheaper cousin, the R60.
If you don't run graphics-intensive programs, the versions with integrated Intel graphics are very desirable.
They don't run hot, and are easy on battery power consumption.
A 14.1" or 15" SXGA+ will certainly please you, and is easily within your budget.
RAM and SATA drives for the T60/R60 are cheap.

But get that 1GB of RAM for the T23 in either case. Lots of life left in it yet!

[Sandstorm83]

Replace Avira with Avast. Doing that sped up my 500MHz/256MB 240Z big time.

This. I just replace AVG with Avast and it freed up at least 100 MB on a 570E with 320MB of RAM.

[lemonstar]

As RealBlackStuff said with 1GB of RAM the T23 is now running very nicely. I've had this machine for years with XP running in 256MB - I don't know how it managed to run so well until the last 6 months or so - I wonder if updates to the OS have put more demands on memory. Anyway - looks like the life of this machine has been extended again.