ThinkPad Failure Rates

[hunterman223]

Hi,
Reading on the forum, it seems like the T4x and T6x series have high failure rates, such as gpu problems. Is this observation correct? I am looking for a somewhat newer used thinkpad to replace this R40, but want a solid, reliable, and inexpensive replacement.

[RealBlackStuff]

Before you cry out too load, please consider, that usually ONLY people with problems post here!
All those others who have machines that work fine, don't normally bother to tell anyone!

That said, it's only certain models that have problems.
Some T40/T41/T42 models with ATI 7500 graphics have an increasing problem with a loose Graphics chip.
Others loose USB, sound, drive capabilities and other things, due to a loose Southbridge chip.
Some T43/T43p also suffer sometimes from a loose Southbridge chip.
All of these can be repaired via reflowing and/or reballing of the chips concerned.
Millions of these machines have been produced, probably less than 2% have such an error.

T61 with nVidia graphics chip are the only ones that have problems.
Bad product from nVidia that is not fixable, except by doing a motherboard swap.

Now look at HP, Dell and their ilk, and be (not) amazed at their much more spectacular failing rates!

[hunterman223]

Before you cry out too load, please consider, that usually ONLY people with problems post here!
All those others who have machines that work fine, don't normally bother to tell anyone!

Okay, that makes sense. It just seems to me anyway, that there are more users posting problems with their Txx machines. What about R5x or R6x series thinkpads? That would probably be a decent upgrade to my R40. I don't see a whole lot of users reporting issues with those, at least less than the T. Were those also made by Acer? I do not see anything wrong with the R40 quality wise, no flex, sturdy, great keyboard etc., but I would like to upgrade for performance reasons.

[RealBlackStuff]

Apart from R3x and R4x, they are/were all made by IBM/Lenovo (exception a few very old machines in the 1990s).
The R5x series compares with the T4x series as follows:
R50=T41
R51=T42
R52=T43
R60=T60
R61=T61
The main difference: the cases of the Rx are of a sturdy plastic instead of the nicer looking rubberized material, some may have lower specs, some have extra Firewire (not available on T4x), some cannot be docked.
They are also slightly bulkier, but IMHO perfect for today's students.
Especially popular is the R51 with integrated Intel graphics.
All the T4x and T5x motherboard will fit in all T4x and R5x models.

[hunterman223]

Thank you, just what I was looking for. Do the R5x and 6 series suffer from the same gpu and southbridge problems?

[pianowizard]

Now look at HP, Dell and their ilk, and be (not) amazed at their much more spectacular failing rates!

The most recent large-scale study showed that Dell laptops have a lower failure rate than Lenovo laptops -- see http://www.lockergnome.com/blade/2009/1 ... you-think/. The caveat is that this study lumped Lenovo's own laptops and Thinkpads together. But yes, HP did perform miserably.

[underclocker]

R60's and T60's of all sizes and varieties do not have GPU issues - other than serious heat with the T60p models. They are quite solid and reliable machines.

Their batteries on the other hand are the weak spot. They die for no reason, often young. I have 20+ dead T60 batteries, some with only 20 cycles on them in otherwise excellent condition - search for "irreparable battery error". That never happened to me across hundreds of T4x/R5x batteries. Z6x, T61 and X6x batteries do the same thing.

[RealBlackStuff]

If there is an R61 with nVidia, it will have the same problems as the corresponding T61.
R5x don't seem to suffer from the GPU and/or SB problem.
T60/R60 are the least problematic, other than batteries.

[hunterman223]

The most recent large-scale study showed that Dell laptops have a lower failure rate than Lenovo laptops

Dell I could possibly see beating lenovo, just never really been fond of dell. But this study is showing lenovo as a whole, including non-thinkpad models. I find it hard to believe that asus has the lowest malfunction rate, I guess I have never thought of them as one of the major laptop manufacturers.

Very strange about the batteries in the 60 series. Have there been any recalls, lawsuits, etc.?

I can find some great deals on second-hand R5x thinkpads on ebay. Would that be a decent upgrade for the money or should I go for the 60? I don't want to spend the money on a new thinkpad, I only use my laptop when away from home. There I have my custom desktop that I am constantly upgrading. I just want something newer and slightly better performance-wise to take with me.

[AIX]

[..]Very strange about the batteries in the 60 series. Have there been any recalls, lawsuits, etc.?
I can find some great deals on second-hand R5x thinkpads on ebay. Would that be a decent upgrade for the money or should I go for the 60? I don't want to spend the money on a new thinkpad, I only use my laptop when away from home. There I have my custom desktop that I am constantly upgrading. I just want something newer and slightly better performance-wise to take with me.

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-pri ... d-p/147116

Go for 60 series, make the step to a Core (2) Duo CPU.

[hunterman223]

Currently looking into T/R6x, but won't be doing any buying at the moment. Gotta save my pennies! So I should avoid Nvidia graphics cards in all of the 6 series? And can someone tell me the difference between R61 and R61i? From what I gather it is the 1.5Ghz C2D CPU, instead of the Core Duo. Passmark Charts tells me the 1.5 Ghz C2D is slower than a 1.8Ghz Core Duo.

[dr_st]

The R61i was a weird sub-family of the R61 series. Indeed they often used lower-end CPUs (Pentium Dual Core or cheap Core 2 Duos). Some of them had glossy screens (would you believe it), some 15.4" models did not have docking station support (like the cheap economy R61e models).

[underclocker]

Very strange about the batteries in the 60 series. Have there been any recalls, lawsuits, etc.?

Lenovo's quasi-recall doesn't come close to listing all the affected part numbers, plus the "detection" tool qualifies maybe one in 100 dead batteries. There should be a massive recall. These batteries define the term defective. Perfect, new battery one day, dead the next.

I am looking for a somewhat newer used thinkpad to replace this R40, but want a solid, reliable, and inexpensive replacement.

Bottom line for an inexpensive replacement, say in the $200 to $350 range for a good condition complete machine, would be any T60 or R60 or any T61 or R61 with Intel video. I'd lean toward the T61 or R61 with Intel video since they support faster, less expensive CPUs and more memory, hence, will run Win7 64-bit better.

Regarding the "e" and "i" versions of all these machines, be careful. Some are just fine, I run a 15.4" R61e for my home media server, but all are limited in some way. For instance, the mobo in my R61e has no docking station port or fingerprint reader connector. It orginally had a Celeron CPU, but I added a low cost 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo T5750 and it's a fine performer. Some R60e's don't support internal wifi - YIKES!

[hunterman223]

Lenovo's quasi-recall doesn't come close to listing all the affected part numbers, plus the "detection" tool qualifies maybe one in 100 dead batteries. There should be a massive recall. These batteries define the term defective. Perfect, new battery one day, dead the next.

Wow, what ever happened to quality control and good customer service?

Bottom line for an inexpensive replacement, say in the $200 to $350 range for a good condition complete machine, would be any T60 or R60 or any T61 or R61 with Intel video. I'd lean toward the T61 or R61 with Intel video since they support faster, less expensive CPUs and more memory, hence, will run Win7 64-bit better.

I'm seeing a lot of deals on ebay US, but I am not sure how long I will be here before I move to the UK. Just finishing up on some final stuff and then on our way. They seem to come rarely and at a pretty penny over in the UK, when the time is right I might just try a WTB in the forum marketplace.

[ZaZ]

The outlet and ebay usually favors the patient.

[hunterman223]

"The Outlet" seems to have failed me. No R6x available, and $659.40 for a refurbished T61!
I searched for a Z6x series just by the off chance that there would be a good deal on one. They seem to be very rare.

[hunterman223]

Also seems to be some good deals on Tx00 and Rx00 thinkpads. A lot of them come even cheaper than the 60/61's. Anything to look for or watch out for here?

[ZaZ]

You don't see the Z6x because it hasn't been sold new for three years. Personally, I think the R400 offers the best value for an all-around notebook unless you want/need some of the premium T options like WWAN or the GPU.

[hunterman223]

I'm not really looking at new laptops, just used or refurbished ones in more-or-less mint condition.

It is pretty much safe to say that I never will use WWAN, where I travel there is almost always WiFi. As for the GPU, I tend to do GPU intensive things like gaming at home on my custom rig.