T410 with NVIDIA Optimus coming!?!

[SHoTTa35]

Seems there are gonna be some T410/s models with the automatic switching coming. I got a RSS update today and this was one of this fixes:

Version 1.32
BIOS: 1.32 / ECP: 1.12

(New) Added support for new CPU models.
(New) Added support for NVIDIA Optimus models.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... um=rssT410

So looks like this is why they switched back to NVIDIA.

I'm happy with my T410 (integrated) but i know some people were clammoring for Optimus or even Switchable on the normal T410 as this seems to add that.

[Volker]

Yay, finally the T410 owners get to enjoy the thermal problems and driver instabilities that the discrete-graphics T410s has

[SHoTTa35]

Well maybe that's why they didn't do it on the T410 yet, with Optimus, it switches on the fly so you don't gotta manually do it. It depends on what app is running makes the GPU kick in without reboot or anything the user does.

[bradsh]

So I'm guessing that current discrete-T410's will not see this, as it probably required a hardware change. Pretty lame lenovo was not on the ball out of the gate on this. At least it's coming, but it doesn't really matter to me

I also would have really liked to have seen 512mb available out of the gate instead of 5 days after I ordered.

[w0qj]

1. With NVIDIA Optimus in T410 discrete graphics, I wonder if there would be any major latency spike problems?

2. Now, if only T410 (or its successor) adds USB 3.0 support, then it'll be a really useful notebook!

[SHoTTa35]

Intel is just finally doing up USB 3.0 in their chips so yeah that's why it didn't come yet. Lenovo is not gonna invest a whole nother $9.75 or whatever it costs per chip for USB 3.0 for the "average" Thinkpad. The T series is a top system but it's the bottom of the top systems. The T510, T410s, W series (in that order) i would say are "higher" range.

[SHoTTa35]

Well there you go:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... um=rssT410

This package installs the software (display driver) to enable the following devices:
- NVIDIA NVS 3100M
- Intel HD Graphics

Supported ThinkPad Systems:
- ThinkPad T410, T410i, T410s, T410si (NVIDIA Optimus models)
- ThinkPad T510, T510i (NVIDIA Optimus models)

Supported Operating Systems:
- Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit

[anthean]

So, uh, has anyone tried this out ? The release date is listed as "2010/09/17"--half a month ago.

Are all T410 models with nVidia graphics considered to be "NVIDIA Optimus models" ? Or is this a hardware change that has been introduced just recently ?

See this Lenovo Thinkpad ad on youtube posted just today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEjZDuc44vs

EDIT: See this article in engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/05/leno ... nounces-t/

[Radioguy]

Simultaneous use of integrated and discrete GPU's on one display? Amazing.

[anthean]

Just looking at the current order form for a T410, I see the video card is referred to as "NVIDIA NVS 3100m Optimus Graphics 512MB DDR3 with AMT", so apparently this is new hardware.

[amardeep]

A Smarter ThinkPad – New Hybrid Graphics/Battery Saving Combo
http://lenovoblogs.com/lenovofiles/2010 ... ing-combo/

[dallascowboys]

Just looking at the current order form for a T410, I see the video card is referred to as "NVIDIA NVS 3100m Optimus Graphics 512MB DDR3 with AMT", so apparently this is new hardware.

Just about to order one!, by the way, what is AMT an Acronym for?

[SHoTTa35]

Active Management Tech - basically only used in corporate environtments for theft management and other management.

[dallascowboys]

thanks

[Navck]

Want switchable graphics without buying another Thinkpad? Planar swap time, we're going to need someone with a T410 with Optimus implementation and the part numbers, then we'll be all good in ordering and swapping the planars and components.

[anthean]

Want switchable graphics without buying another Thinkpad? Planar swap time, we're going to need someone with a T410 with Optimus implementation and the part numbers, then we'll be all good in ordering and swapping the planars and components.

Yeah. I was hoping that the BIOS update would be enough. I mean, what was the point of posting a BIOS update that enables Optimus technology when in fact any Optimus enabled Thinkpads that ship henceforth must inherently have this BIOS when shipped ?

In any event, it would be nice to get an official statement from Lenovo.

[Navck]

I'd love to see a BIOS update and drivers that would just enable this but I think there were probably some hardware changes*.

*Don't quote me on this.

[bradsh]

Want switchable graphics without buying another Thinkpad? Planar swap time, we're going to need someone with a T410 with Optimus implementation and the part numbers, then we'll be all good in ordering and swapping the planars and components.

What the hell is a planar? Are you saying buy a new motherboard? With the GFX chip, won't that be well over $300?

[erik]

'system planar' is IBM-speak for motherboard.   you'll find it referred this way in maintenance manuals and by any of us old enough to have serviced systems in the IBM days.

personally, i never say 'motherboard' except when having to explain what the hell a system planar is.

[Navck]

I'm willing to do it if there are positive results. So far I'm getting greater battery life than most people with their integrated so I'll sit on this one and wait. If it actually can combine the integrated and NVS3100m together in some form of pseudo load balancing thing to increase GPU power, then I'm definitely in, as long as I can still control the clocks on the NVS3100m.

And yes, some of us do have enough income to buy a i7-620m and yet refuse to buy a SSD, including enterprise tiered.

[amardeep]

FYI I asked the obvious question on the Lenovo Blogs page I mentioned in a previous message and received a response (viewable on the page too, but here are the details) :

Q : "Is this a software/driver update that can be applied to existing switchable graphics T410s models, or is there a hardware change which means it’s a feature of new “Optimus systems” only."

A : "Amardeep, that is a good question. All ThinkPads shipping today will be Optimus enabled if running Win 7.. The current T410, T410s and T510 that are in the field will not be able to upgrade. The changes are the following: 1- Graphics Driver, 2- BIOS UPDATE 3- EEPROM Flash. So the hardware is not changing, but the upgrade to Optimus is not supported due to the EEPROM update that is required."

[anthean]

Interesting. So, to recap:

There were no hardware changes.

Enabling Optimus was just a matter of writing the proper software. Which wasn't yet accomplished when the T410 originally went on sale.

But some of this software resides on an EEPROM chip, that while technically rewriteable, cannot be accessed through normal means.

Even though I own a T410, this is enough to make me laugh.

[dallascowboys]

Interesting. So, to recap:

There were no hardware changes.

Enabling Optimus was just a matter of writing the proper software. Which wasn't yet accomplished when the T410 originally went on sale.

But some of this software resides on an EEPROM chip, that while technically rewriteable, cannot be accessed through normal means.

Even though I own a T410, this is enough to make me laugh.

haha, even though it does seem kind of suspect on lenovo's end, why let you upgrade your t410 when they can give you a reason to buy a new one? lol

[Radioguy]

But some of this software resides on an EEPROM chip, that while technically rewriteable, cannot be accessed through normal means.

Is that the VBIOS? Theoretically, that could be dumped and flashed. Have any modder/hackers confirmed that the EEPROM cannot be flashed by an end-user with software at boot?

[w0qj]

Unless the upcoming model (T420?) has USB 3.0 connection, it may not be worth upgrading from T410 to upcoming model (T420)...

With Adobe Reader utilizing graphics GPU, and now upcoming browsers using GPU, I'm not even sure if GPU would be deemed "not needed" and be disabled (use CPU's built-in GPU)...

So if you use browser and/or Adobe Flash regularly, your GPU may be on all the time--negating the whole point of OPTIMUS, which was to shut down the GPU when it is deemed "not needed" to save power...

[Colonel O'Neill]

Again, Lenovo's implementation appears to allow you to assign certain apps to the IGP or discrete, so you can just get the driver to switch more selectively.

[dallascowboys]

Unless the upcoming model (T420?) has USB 3.0 connection, it may not be worth upgrading from T410 to upcoming model (T420)...

how do you know for sure that there is an upcoming T420? Obviously there will always be newer thinkpads coming up...after the t420 will be a new one and so on.

But the way you refer to it, it's as if you know for sure that it is coming up soon? Any ballpark launch dates? or any specifications on hardware?

[amardeep]

Very slightly off-topic, but ... tabook version 386 shows one model (2912-47U) with Optimus and ExpressCard/34. Surely this is a mistake ? No switchable graphics version had the ExpressCard as far as I know (instead they had a card reader), and I always assumed it was to free up some space for the additional hardware.

I'm also aware that the card reader was hardware semi-permanently plugged into the card slot on some Thinkpad models, but again assumed that wasn't the case on the slimline 's' models.

Anyone know anything about this ?

edit : an Optimus overview http://www.anandtech.com/show/2934/nvid ... sus-ul50vf

[bradsh]

what a crock, i kind of got doubly boned by lenovo on this. first off, i wanted 512mb, which they released 1 week after i received my unit. i also wanted optimus, which they release a few months later. pretty lame.

[Navck]

Such a shame for early adopters huh? Well thats OK, its not like people have a right to bring up the flaws of first gen SSDs and the lack of TRIM functionality.

This happens, go buy a systemboard or find a way to flash the EEPROM.