Wanted to say thanks and a q on the T42

[admsteiner]

Hey,

I ordered a T42 (2378-FVU) about a week ago from my computer supplier (graduation present from my dad, so it made it much less costly ). I'll post my review and thoughts on it once I get it. It had been between a thinkpad, a Latitude and that really small Sony. I went for the Thinkpad once I saw that it had a trackpad as well as the pencil eraser (which I can't stand).

Anyway, does anyone know if the 2378-FVU comes with Bluetooth, or would it have to be ordered seperately? I've never used Bluetooth, nor do I forsee using it in the near future, but I figured I'd ask.

Also must say that I love the forums, I've been hear reading posts every day for the last week and a half or so. Definitley the friendliest forum I've been to, and the near unanimous praise for the T-Series is really making me anticipate it more and more.

Thanks again.
Adam Steiner

[csv96]

No Bluetooth. However, it is one of the units that has the Bluetooth antenna built-in. If you ever want to add Bluetooth, you can just replace the modem communications daughter card (MDC2) with the bluetooth/modem communications daughter card (BMDC2). You can also replace the icon plate (the panel below the screen that has the various light-up icons) with one that has a Bluetooth icon.

[admsteiner]

Thanks. As I mentioned I don't think I'll need Bluetooth, but I was curious whether it would have it or not. Thanks for the info.

--Adam

[mattfromomaha]

Funny thing about the "pencil eraser" you can't stand...I used to be in the same boat. I refused to buy a ThinkPad forever because I hated not having a touchpad. As soon as they came out with the dual devices on the T30 I bought by first IBM.

On a cross-country flight a few weeks later I was stuck in coach between two large people and didn't have the elbow room to use my touchpad. I forced myself to use the Track Point and quickly realized why so many people love it. It takes some time to really get used to it (and get it set to your liking), but now when I'm in the office I swear at my desktop because I have to have a mouse.

Give that TrackPoint a fair chance, and enjoy your ThinkPad - You made the right choice!

[admsteiner]

Something tells me I will, although, like touch typing (which I still haven't had the patience to learn), it will be something I'll need to force upon myself to try.

Had my first laptop had the Trackpoint (or the name equivalent), I'd probably have hated the touchpad. But both it and my second (a Sceptre 69002, same ODM model as the Dell Inspiron 5000) had the touchpad. I guess we'll see what happens.

[cynic]

IBM's trackpoint is much better than any other companies (after all, they invented and patented it and continue to do research into different applications of the technology including a really cool 3D rotation method using the trackpoint and tactile feedback responses) Since IBM owns the patent, the other versions out there (mostly by Synaptic) don't use the same underlying technology.

Both the keyboard of a ThinkPad and the ease of location of the trackpoint will win you over (not to mention how easy it is to scroll with the use of the scroll button and the trackpoint) I find myself with my right-hand thumb on the scroll button and my right-hand pointer-finger on the trackpoint instinctively if I'm not typing... it's like it is their natural resting position.

You'll be a touch-typist in no time using this keyboard (without forcing yourself) Plus, you won't have any "Fn key" vs "Ctrl key" vs "Windows key" hangups that some typist have. (Not me! )

[admsteiner]

I didn't know that IBM invented the trackpoint, and I *never* heard of any kind of 3D rotation method. I guess I'll have a number of surprises once my thinkpad gets here.

As for touch typing, it's not that I can't learn it, I just don't have the patience to do so I type quicker with my 3-7 finger method.

--Adam

[lilserenity]

Hiya,

I remember when I first got my first computer in 1991, I was eight years old, and it was a Commodore 64. My mom used to work as a secretary and from that she was a touch typist, she was amazing, I used ask her to do the typing, I was in awe.

In 1993 I had over taken her abilities, and was beginning type fast and programmed in Commodore BASIC 2.0.

In 1995 I got my first 'real' computer, an Amiga 500 Plus (a computer I still have fond memories of). From having that computer, I learned to touch type...

...It's now 2004, and I can touch type perfectly as I am here, and that is saying something given I am using a laptop, some say the hardest type of device to type on. Not so, it's a ThinkPad, and they easily have the best keyboard I have ever used, the keys are full size, they have the response you need in a keyboard and I don't find myself hankering for an external keyboard. In other words, you will eventually find yourself touch typing. I never set out to teach myself to touch type, it just happened.

Having used a myriad of laptops in my time, I find that on other manufacturer's models I cannot touch type, the keys have very little feedback, they are too small and just always end up hitting the wrong keys. This is why at all costs I always try to take my T23 everywhere with me on my IT work, because I know if a laptop is involved, I will never get anything done except frustrate myself, IBM really cracked it with their keyboards.

That is the pleasure of the ThinkPad, sure you won't find every single latest mod-con on the system, it may not have every expansion port of its rivals, but its the focus on the details that are looked over by other manufacturers as an after thought, namely the keyboard and mouse control. IBM have for me and I can definitely say many others perfected this, and for that reason I don't mind spending a few hundred extra because I *know* I can get my work done just as quick as I could on a desktop, its these details that promotes productivity and creativity on the ThinkPad. For the record, I do not own a desktop machine, my ThinkPad does all the computing I need, and a lot more besides.

If you doubt the quality of the IBM ThinkPad's trackpoint, sure you will have the trackpad there, but once you get used to the trackpoint, you will never leave it. To give you an idea of the trackpoint's accuracy, this is a CG picture I am working on, apart from the basic black outline, the rest has thus far been done using a trackpoint on my T23.

http://www.lilserenity.dynalias.com:808 ... colour.jpg (far from complete, but the shading was all done using a T23 trackpoint, no mouse, no touchpad)

Also a completed one: http://www.lilserenity.dynalias.com:808 ... colour.jpg

Now believe me you, if you can get those results in Photoshop, you will realise that the trackpoint is more than adept at navigating a GUI and using all the applications you need. It is in the perfect position.

Just one word of warning, make sure the trackpad doesn't get too dusty, we want your T series to look spotless

Sorry for the long reply, I just had to express how much the combination of the ThinkPad keyboard and trackpoint makes it a complete winner for me, and it is why I shall always choose an IBM ThinkPad so long as these two components remain as high quality as they are.

Vicky

[benz]

Is this 3D rotation thing currently implemented? Or is it still in the R&D stage?

[cynic]

The 3-D rotation thing is still R&D. There are a lot of really cool implementations (like a pointer/remote with a trackpoint so you can navigate while giving presentations) in development. Also the tactile feedback is very cool (think of the game controllers that shake when you fire, but with actual good applications) One of the things you'll notice if you look closely when using an IBM trackpoint is that it "bounces/rebounds" when it hits the screen edge (named "negative inertia" by IBM.) There was a study that your mind can perceive visual cues as if they were tactile if they were subliminial enough.. so you get a better sense of precision as to the boundaries of the screen.

Here's the history of the trackpoint at Wikipedia.
Here's IBM's trackpoint site (though it hasn't been updated lately.) The guy who invented it still works for IBM, here's his site. Checkout all the projects on his site!

EDIT: History of ThinkPad link deleted as JHEM posted a link to Bill's site with the exact same article and no need for registration. Page 6 has the trackpoint info. See post below.

It's interesting to note tha A) the trackpoint was buried by the bureacracy at IBM for a long time; B) one of the reasons the trackpoint was used was to counter the use of trackballs by Apple; C) the signature colour of red was also a bit of a battle in IBM-land.

[JHEM]

Sorry for the long reply, I just had to express how much the combination of the ThinkPad keyboard and trackpoint makes it a complete winner for me, and it is why I shall always choose an IBM ThinkPad so long as these two components remain as high quality as they are.

Vicky Luv,

Have you ever had one of the 600 series machines? There are many in our Thinkpad community (myself among them) as well as many others who look upon the 600 series keyboard as being the ne' plus ultra among laptops, with ALL other offerings coming in a distant second, even other Thinkpads.

While the keyboards on my T21, T23 and T30 are good, they're not quite in the same league as my 600X. I get monthly calls from professional wordsmith friends looking for another 600X to add to their collection as a backup in case their primary machine should fail.

With all of the Thinkpads I have at my fingertips, my venerable and greatly upgraded 600X was my go-to machine when I headed out the door for many, many years. It took the release of the T40s for me to finally succumb to the need for newer/faster and, as good as the T40 keyboard is, it's still not as good as my 600X.

Regards,

James

[cynic]

I second James' post above. The 600X is the brick tank of ThinkPads and the keyboard is especially solid. The whole case after 4 years doesn't look a bit different from the first day.

[JHEM]

The history of the Thinkpad can also be read here: http://www.thinkpads.com/genesis1.htm

Regards,

James

[lilserenity]

Hiya,

Indeed the ThinkPads I have used have been a 560, 560X, 560Z (different keyboard to the vanilla, E and X, more like a 570s), 570, 570E, T21 and t23. The best ones are the one on the 560Z and the 570 I had once, incredibly robust. I must admit the T23 keyboard has been replaced once by me, I wore the one that it came with out, hehe, nothing unsurprising there!

The 560Z's keyboard is very nice and I would be intrigued to compare it to a 600 series keyboard, for sure the T23's keyboard is by no means perfect (not quite as solid and not as clicky on the key action) but the key point (non pun intended) is the keys are full sized and well positioned just as they are with any ThinkPad (with the exception of the 240 series where the keys are a bit too small for my liking).

Maybe some day I'll get a TP 600 series just to feel and get to know a generation of ThinkPad I have never had the pleasure to use. The reason for not having a TP 600E or such like? At the time - 570s were much much cheaper and were more or less the same computer minus built in drive bay.

That said, the 570 itself is a brilliant ThinkPad, underrated Hopefully the T41 will mimic it closely enough in terms of dimensions for me to get that slim profile of the 570 that I loved so dearly that the T23 comes close to but not quite.

Vicky

[bli1348]

I owned a 600, am considering getting a T42. After reading the above praise on 600 KB over current models, I kinda wonder how is the current KB worse than the one on T42? I had no problem with 600 KB, just it's sad that now i'm buying a new machine with a worse KB?

To be honest, even though I paid over 3500 for my 600 when it first came out, I like it very much, but I don't regard it as a machine that needs to be collected.