T41 Power Adapter

[ParatoOptimal]

I bought a genuine IBM power adapter on ebay for a T41.
The advert said it was for ... it listed dozens of ThinkPads Including the T41 and X31 but gave no voltage or amp specs. Now that's it's arrived, I've found it to be part number 02K7006. Output is 16V, 3.36A.

I've read and been told that Voltage can be within 10% of what it's supposed to be. I don't know if that's 10% higher or lower. I've read that Amperage can be higher but NOT lower.

I've checked the hareware maintenance manuals for the T41 and X31.
The model numbers and amperage don't match.
Did I get screwed!
Should I demand my money back?
It was $1.99 + $7.99 shipping.

[poshgeordie]

The hardware maintenance manual for T40 -T42 says the adapter has to be 72W (page 246). The supply volts are 16V.

Using the formula W/V=I (watts divided by volts = current) 72W/16V=4.5A, so yes you have the wrong adapter.

What it means in practice is that the lower current one will be running at 100% output trying to give more current than its designed for and will not charge the battery very quickly, and may well fail prematurely.
Premature failure with these could mean the output volts goes high just before complete failure and will cause motherboard damage.

I'll probably be told I'm the profit of doom, but I'd personally never use one!

Re money back - yes without a doubt and send the relevant page of the HMM as proof with the above calcs written on it too.

[Binh]

Should I demand my money back?
It was $1.99 + $7.99 shipping.

Don't worry about lower amperage. The 56W adapter works fine with T41 and T42. I use the same adapter for my T42p (FireGL, overclocked) for more than 1 year and it is fine.
For T4x, maximum charge wattage is 30W, plus average 15-20W of T41 power consumption.
If you are unsure, don't do something heavy while battery is charged (bellow 70-80%, above 80% the charge wattage will be reduced bellow 30W).

[ParatoOptimal]

I'm looking at 13n6243.pdf. I don't see any info on page 246.
I got it from http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T41

T41 3-pin 72W 16V 4.5A
-------------------------------------------
ASTEC 08K8203 72W 16V 4.5A
DELTA 08K8207 72W 16V 4.5A
SANKEN 08K8211 72W 16V 4.5A

T41 2-pin 72W 16V 4.5A
-------------------------------------------
ASTEC 08K8205 72W 16V 4.5A
DELTA 08K8209 72W 16V 4.5A
SANKEN 08K8213 72W 16V 4.5A

[RealBlackStuff]

I would return it and insist on a 72W adapter or your money back.
OTOH, you should have done your homework first and/or have asked here before falling in the eBay "bargain" trap.

[poshgeordie]

Yup, "my" manual must be an old one - it's on page 254 on "yours"!

[ParatoOptimal]

HA! thanks for the rap on the knuckles. I did all due diligence in home work and have poured over many docs and manuals. The ONE thing I didn't do was to ask the seller since the auction was ending. It seemed shady that he didn't list the specs. But, since he listed many TP models, I thought it was a later year, high wattage model that would work with all the models he listed. I didn't think the T41 and other higher W models would be listed if it was such a low W adapter. He had two of the same in two different listings and one was snatched up quickly. I also thought if it was a little lower W than I hoped for that it would suit my X31 as a backup.

I would return it and insist on a 72W adapter or your money back.
OTOH, you should have done your homework first and/or have asked here before falling in the eBay "bargain" trap.

[ParatoOptimal]

This is a paltry 53.76W.

Don't worry about lower amperage. The 56W adapter works fine with T41 and T42. I use the same adapter for my T42p (FireGL, overclocked) for more than 1 year and it is fine.
For T4x, maximum charge wattage is 30W, plus average 15-20W of T41 power consumption.
If you are unsure, don't do something heavy while battery is charged (bellow 70-80%, above 80% the charge wattage will be reduced bellow 30W).

[ParatoOptimal]

I find many listings on ebay where the part number is one digit off from what's listed in the hardware maintenance manual I got from thinkwiki.org.

Sometimes it seems that I'm going by Part Number and they're going by the FRU Number which is one digit different. Other times I don't know where they got their Part number or FRU Number. Maybe it's a later PN or FRU that also suits my old T41. It would be terrible if the polarity was different or the tip size didn't fit. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Here's an FRU not in my manual ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Genuine-OEM-72W ... 255c13e8f7

Some sellers list many laptop models. They also list their item as compatible with both 2-pin and 3-pin adapters. They may work with the laptop but a 2-pin is not "compatible" with a 3-pin or the correct replacement when you're looking for a 3-pin.

The seller of the one I purchased mentioned that he's sold almost a hundred of these without a single complaint. He offered to refund my "full money" or to meet to swap it for another adapter. He has no other adapters listed on ebay. So, I don't know what he's offering for a swap. He's two states away but was going to be in my state yesterday afternoon. I didn't get notice of that until it was too late. I hope "full money" includes shipping. Ebay buyer protection covers the cost of the item and shipping.

I'll see if the P.O. will return it to him as refused delivery. I did open it. So, they could charge me for shipping. I'm guessing it's at least $3 to ship. He charged me $1.99 for the adpater and $7.99 for shipping.

I checked my other devices and I don't have anything that I could used this with.

[RealBlackStuff]

Nearly every model TP came with its own adapter P/N or FRU, even though they are mostly the same item.
There are/were a few manufacturers who all made the same units, but each again with a different P/N or FRU.
And then there are the EMEA versions with 3-prong power cords, as compared to 2-prong power cords in North America.
Add to this mix that different countries have different power outlets (and thus require different power cords), and all confusion hell breaks loose.
The main thing is to stick to the basic requirements (16V/4.5A/72W) and 2-prong or 3-prong.

As an aside, a similar mayhem exists for earlier (16V/56W) and newer (20V/65W and 20V/90W) adapters.
But why make it simple, if you can complicate matters?

[ParatoOptimal]

I'm well aquainted with the similar mayhem.
I experienced it with my X31 and am currently looking for a power adapter for my T41 and my Lenovo 300 N100. I prefer three prong.

Lenovo should have a DB where you could enter a PN or FRU and get a list of which laptops it was bundled with, which others it can be used with and which other PNs and FRUs it's identical to.

[RealBlackStuff]

Lenovo should have a DB where you could enter a PN or FRU and get a list of which laptops it was bundled with, which others it can be used with and which other PNs and FRUs it's identical to.

Wishful thinking!
Look at the wild variety of T4x and R5x motherboards! I'm losing the plot, with currently 82 and counting...

[ParatoOptimal]

So, is the polarity the same in all of these?

An odd thing is that the Part Number in the Hardware Reference Manuals is listed as the FRU Number on the actual power adpaters I've found on ebay with a Part Number, one digit different from the "FRU" number.

[RealBlackStuff]

The polarity (+ center, - outside) is the same all over.
IBM/Lenovo were/are absolutely lousy at naming their stuff, Marketing P/N, P/N, FRU, FRU no. and FRU P/N, quite often -but not always- only 1 number apart.
Also have a look at this: http://www.elhvb.com/mobokive/eprm/eprmx/12531.htm

[ParatoOptimal]

The ebay seller took back the power adapter and gave me a full refund.
He made every effort to still do business but he didn't have the correct adapter.
He's actually in my state every friday to pick up computer parts.

I ended up ordering one from laptopsxyz on ebay.
It works but it arrived with what looks like old tape gum stuck to every recessed edge and groove on the adapter. It had no tape on it when it arrived. is this a bad sign?
Thanks