ThinkPad X212 wishlist

[sanjuro]

Perhaps if they go 16:9 you'll get a thinner bezel.

If they go 16:9, I'm giving up on Thinkpads. I don't see much appeal to the existing line-up anyway. Other vendors are catching up on quality or offer superior components like IPS LCD like in HP Elitebook 8740w with DreamColor LCD (WUXGA+ 30bit IPS display).

[hannesw]

my wishlist for the X2xx(s) replacement of the future. lots of it is a repeat from earlier posters. see it as a summary.

must have:
- UEFI
- USB 3 (on board)
- eSATA (on board)
- digital display out (on board)
- better displays. NO 16:9! it's all about vertical screen size.
- keep it power sipping. X series (especially the "s" modells) are basically typewriters. i will buy a W series when in need of more ompf.
- sell without os. or better: with linux
- (german problem) europlug powersupply not the grounded but huge schuko

must keep:
- huge batteries (<= why i did not buy a T4xxs)
- keyboard (no edge-style keyboard)
- UMTS
- webcam

nice to have:
- better speakers
- bootable miniPCIe SSD connector (miniPCIe slot which really is SATA) but keep 2,5" SATA slot.
- external PCI express (as expresscard in the dock or better as a normal PCI-e slot in some kind of dock)
- more rigid (i want to be able to stand on it when closed. not that i'm going to, but i want to have the impression i could)

not needed:
- analog modem
- touchpad
- fingerprint reader

i would not mind moving to 13" screen size WITHOUT optical drive to implement all that. especially the hybrid hdd design or more space for batteries.
alternatively i could move to a new T4xxs which has USB3 and bigger battery options.


edit: moved "more rigid" to "nice to have"

[Jason404]

I pretty much agree with your wrap, but standing on it is not a requirement for me. I'd prefer it to be strong enough to to take some abuse from my two year old nephew (which my X200s has survived) but still be very light, as I take mine everywhere. Also, the fingerprint reader is really useful on Windows. It's allowed me to use a multitude of very strong passwords, with no hassle.

[hannesw]

i agree. my X200s survived without a scrach when it fell down from about one meter onto hard floor twice. both times it was switched on. durability is not an issue with the current model, more would not hurt though. it is not a top priority.
i therefore moved the point to "nice to have"

i agree that fpr may be useful for a lot of people. i think it is not save enough to be used for full disk encryption. as an alternative to a short os password or to unlock wifi- or firefox password keyring it is adequate. i see no advantage over a short typed password, since i already have my hands on the keyboard. a fpr is not disturbing, nor is it expensive hence i dont care about it ...

[jvarszegi]

What I'd do:

1. More X25-M options, available on all models

2. Go to the superior chiclet keyboard from the Edge / x100e

3. Make the whole ensemble less wedge-shaped, even with the 9-cell battery

4. Drop the weight

5. Improve the screen

That would be a truly great machine.

[LegendaryKA8]

Well, the X-series is a lot of things to a lot of people. Here's my observations:

The Sandy Bridge IGP is going to be one of the fastest IGPs ever released, and if Intel's hype is being lived up to it's going to be able to run some games. The X-series isn't meant for gaming, so I'm not particularly worried... but my guess is that it's going to be on par with the current Optimus offerings on the T-series. Enough graphics horsepower for light work.

Unfortunately, I see the 14" T-series and the X-series switching over to 16:9. I detest saying this as I hate 16:9 with a passion, but this is the fault of the LCD manufacturers(which apparently operate like an oligarchy) than anyone else. They're not really making 16:10 or 4:3 panels in any significant numbers anymore, unfortunately. To remain cost-competitive, Lenovo has to go with the flow. Blame the LCD manufacturers and the huge numbers of consumer notebooks that're sold. After saying that, the 16:9 switch alone will most likely turn me off to getting any new notebooks for a while. I really don't like the very limited resolution choices with 16:9 and the loss of a 1440x900-ish display makes that form factor just plain ridiculous for a notebook, if you ask me.

With the larger bezel on the X20x, I think they could squeeze in a 16:9 panel in the existing form factor. The move to 16:10 already increased the X20x's footprint to nearly that of a 4:3 14" T-series. We don't need it getting any physically wider or squatter. That would start pushing the definition of 'ultraportable' and the shorter palmrest will make for some sacrifices; the loss of the touchpad for those used to it and a smaller palmrest to type on(or a squished keyboard which is even scarier). The form factor of the X20x is as important as its weight, in my opinion.

I'm definitely interested to see what the new generation will bring, but for the foreseeable future I'm sticking with my X200.

[ThinkRob]

"but how thin and flimsy the lid is, really really bothers me now. I want a ROCK SOLID Thinkpad in the future. I feel Lenovo really cheaped out on some aspects of the x200, mainly the chassis."

I thought that too (I stated quite strongly that the X200s felt "flimsy".) While it certainly doesn't feel strong, after having used the X200 and X200s as my primary machine(s) while traveling... well... they're sturdy machines!

With that said I think its time for a whole new chassis that brings us back to older thinkpad quality and yet improves durability even further; further serving to separate the thinkpad as THE business notebook of choice- bar none. As it stands right now HP's line is pretty much right there in terms of quality.

Older ThinkPad quality? Like the T4x (which died due to planar flex)? Or like the 600 series (which was much, much heavier and thicker than recent models)?

Portable, modern, affordable, durable. Pick any three.

Yes a whole new chassis with more metal and strategic use of carbon-fiber and the most advanced roll cage design they can make, something that can pass the tougher MIL-STD-810G drop procedure used by the military. A standard which current thinkpads currently don't make, but could with a bit of good engineering.

...and with a bit more heat. And a lot more money. And lower specs. And a good bit more weight.

Ruggedized laptops are overkill for almost all users, and the compromises that need to be made in terms of cost, performance, and portability make it not worth it for a business-oriented company like Lenovo.

[filmbuff]

you're kidding on #2 right? superior?!?

my wish list would be similar to what has been posted by others:

1) better quality screen option
2) keep the laptop light-weight with great battery life
3) wish they would keep the 16:10 ratio though it's likely to go bye-bye.
4) i wouldn't mind if they trim 0.5-1.0 inch off the width by shrinking some of the peripheral keys to shrink the form-factor slightly.
5) i'd like to see the vga output stay
6) keep offering a cam-free version (more antennae space triumphs a camera any day)

2. Go to the superior chiclet keyboard from the Edge / x100e

3. Make the whole ensemble less wedge-shaped, even with the 9-cell battery

4. Drop the weight

5. Improve the screen

That would be a truly great machine.

[penartur]

If they go 16:9, I'm giving up on Thinkpads. I don't see much appeal to the existing line-up anyway.

Why would you prefer e.g. 16:9 FullHD IPS panel over 8:5 1280*800 TN one?

[pianowizard]

Why would you prefer e.g. 16:9 FullHD IPS panel over 8:5 1280*800 TN one?

The X212 is only 12" and would definitely not have full HD, i.e. 1920x1080. It's going to be only 1366x768, worse than the 1440x900 of the X201s and X200s.

[penartur]

The X212 is only 12" and would definitely not have full HD, i.e. 1920x1080.

There were suggestions of making the next-gen of X200 actually X300, that is, 13" screen in a X200 case. There are 13" screens with 1920*1080.

It's going to be only 1366x768

Are you a lenovo insider?

[pianowizard]

There were suggestions of making the next-gen of X200 actually X300, that is, 13" screen in a X200 case.

Then start a new thread entitled "ThinkPad X313 wishlist". This thread is about a 12" Thinkpad that might be called the X212. It's the screen size rather than the case that determines the model number. If Lenovo ever puts a 12" LCD in the case of a W710, it would still be named after the 12" LCD, not the 17" case.

[jvarszegi]

you're kidding on #2 right? superior?!?

It's not just superior, it's far superior; there's no contest. We have an X201 and an X100e (as well as T60 and T61 at present), and the X100e keyboard is more comfortable, accurate, and faster in actual use (the wife, who also does a lot of typing, agrees). I would never have thought this possible before using it. The touchpad on the X100e is also superb, especially for such a cheap machine. I would take an X201 with the chiclet keyboard over the current X201 keyboard 100% of the time, although I would certainly pick an X201 over an X100e for just about every use scenario.

If you take this superior keyboard and added it to the X2xx series, it could really deliver some benefits in terms of making the machine thinner while actually delivering a superior typing experience. When you put the X100e next to the X201, there's really no contest in terms of smallness and thinness, which has to be partly due to the reduced key travel. I would love an X201 in the X100e size, even if it were only available with a max 6-cell battery. I guess I need to pick an X201s next time.

[penartur]

Then start a new thread entitled "ThinkPad X313 wishlist". This thread is about a 12" Thinkpad that might be called the X212. It's the screen size rather than the case that determines the model number. If Lenovo ever puts a 12" LCD in the case of a W710, it would still be named after the 12" LCD, not the 17" case.

I wonder why you haven't pointed out that the model in subject will likely be called X210, not X212.
I believe that this thread is devoted to the possible X201 successor, not to the exact X212. And X200 with the upper lid assembly with smaller bezel and 13" LCD will definitely be X201 successor, not X301 successor.

[penartur]

It's not just superior, it's far superior; there's no contest. We have an X201 and an X100e (as well as T60 and T61 at present), and the X100e keyboard is more comfortable, accurate, and faster in actual use (the wife, who also does a lot of typing, agrees).

We have a couple of Edge (don't remember whether it is 14 or 15); i'm using X200s' keyboard on the go and "IBM travel keyboard with ultranav" in the office/home; i've also had an experience with R61, T400 and T500... and i can say that Edge keyboard is nearly unuseable when compared to classic thinkpad keyboards.

If you take this superior keyboard and added it to the X2xx series, it could really deliver some benefits in terms of making the machine thinner while actually delivering a superior typing experience.

If in the X201 successor, lenovo will replace classic keyboard with the one from Edge, it will mean the end of already diluted thinkpad brand for me.

[jvarszegi]

We have a couple of Edge (don't remember whether it is 14 or 15); i'm using X200s' keyboard on the go and "IBM travel keyboard with ultranav" in the office/home; i've also had an experience with R61, T400 and T500... and i can say that Edge keyboard is nearly unuseable when compared to classic thinkpad keyboards.

Nope. Adn the fact that you can't even remember the screen size of the Edges available to you means you certainly haven't used them extensively. Most who use the chiclet keyboard agree it is an improvement. I have now typed many, many pages of text on the X100e, and so has my wife; we have actual experience. And we are both long-time Thinkpad users.

If in the X201 successor, lenovo will replace classic keyboard with the one from Edge, it will mean the end of already diluted thinkpad brand for me.

You can say that, and so might others. In reality what would most likely happen is that you and others would grumble, but try the keyboard and see that it is actually superior. If not in your case, in most others... In any event I think that what would make the most sense is to offer it as an option, maybe on the new X201s, to enable even more thinness in addition to the superior typing experience.

Try it! You'll love it.

[pianowizard]

Most who use the chiclet keyboard agree it is an improvement.

I have come across two kinds of chiclet keyboards, one with flat tops, the other with curved tops. The former is much more common and IMO aren't as good as the latter. The X100e has the latter. The Edge has the flat type, I think.

[erik]

The Edge has the flat type, I think.

nope, the Edge key tops are curved.

typing on an Edge doesn't feel much different than typing on a standard ThinkPad.   (i hate to admit it but i had an Edge 13 on my desk not long after they were released.)

[penartur]

Nope. Adn the fact that you can't even remember the screen size of the Edges available to you means you certainly haven't used them extensively.

So, if someone haven't used some sort of keyboard extensively, then they cannot say it's a piece of junk?

Most who use the chiclet keyboard agree it is an improvement.

My personal experience and other users feedback disagree with that.

I have now typed many, many pages of text on the X100e, and so has my wife; we have actual experience. And we are both long-time Thinkpad users.

Okay, X100e/Edge keyboard is better than classic keyboard for you, but not for the others.
By the way, what do you think of Edge's "reduced" layout?

In any event I think that what would make the most sense is to offer it as an option, maybe on the new X201s, to enable even more thinness in addition to the superior typing experience.

If it will be the option, it's okay; but i doubt that there will be choose between thinner chassis and thicker chassis. Also, current X200 keyboard is not as thick as you're saying; maybe some ultra-slim keyboard will help to shove a couple of millimeters.

Try it! You'll love it.

I've already tried it, and i definitely don't want to try it for another day/month/year waiting for the moment i'll begin to like it as you say. I'd better stay with the classic keyboard, which was great for me since the first day i've met it.

[Jason404]

@jvarszegi

The quality of the keyboards is a subjective matter, so there is little point in arguing whose opinion is right, but I would think that most people would disagree with you. I certainly do. I was thinking of buying an X100e until I had a go at using one. My friend also has an Edge, which he bought on my recommendation, and I do not find it as easy to touch-type on compared to the classic keyboards.

Anyway, the keyboard quality of classic keyboards is a famed part of the ThinkPad brand, and I think it is unlikely that Lenovo are going to mess about with it or change the layout. Also, the isolated keyboards on the new cheaper models do not have the liquid spill protection bath and drainage system.

[Jason404]

I wonder why you haven't pointed out that the model in subject will likely be called X210, not X212.
I believe that this thread is devoted to the possible X201 successor, not to the exact X212. And X200 with the upper lid assembly with smaller bezel and 13" LCD will definitely be X201 successor, not X301 successor.

They would still have to rename it the X31x if they include a 13" screen, to keep the naming scheme consistent.

Also, as the new L-series (R-series replacement) have started on L412 and L512, which indicates that Lenovo are on the ***2 generation now. They have skipped numbers in the past, to keep up with other series (eg. no X5* chassis between the X41 and X60 models).

[jvarszegi]

@jvarszegi

The quality of the keyboards is a subjective matter, so there is little point in arguing whose opinion is right, but I would think that most people would disagree with you.

Not people who have actually used an Edge or X100e to do work, as opposed to touching one for several seconds or minutes.

Anyway, the keyboard quality of classic keyboards is a famed part of the ThinkPad brand, and I think it is unlikely that Lenovo are going to mess about with it or change the layout.

They already did... hence the Edge/X100e keyboard. They're obviously afraid of angering their larger user base, but are probably using the Edge/X100e as a way of doing extended market research on the new keyboard. Lenovo has done a great job of popularizing the Thinkpad brand, due to a combination of marketing and price. The reality is that if they went to the new keyboard on all their machines, they would continue to sell, since die-hard Thinkpad purists who would desert the brand over such a thing are surely in a tiny minority. Where are they going to go-- to another manufacturer with worse keyboards? Nope.

[jvarszegi]

So, if someone haven't used some sort of keyboard extensively, then they cannot say it's a piece of junk?

Correct. Touching a keyboard does not entitle you to "review" it.

My personal experience and other users feedback disagree with that.

No. Most who actually use the keyboard agree that it is an improvement. "Best ever", even. http://blog.laptopmag.com/thinkpad-edge ... z14h3Xt3NF

[penartur]

They would still have to rename it the X31x if they include a 13" screen, to keep the naming scheme consistent.

As i have said before, i believe that this thread is not about the specific possible model called X212 but rather about X201 successor, be it X21x or X31x.

Also, as the new L-series (R-series replacement) have started on L412 and L512, which indicates that Lenovo are on the ***2 generation now. They have skipped numbers in the past, to keep up with other series (eg. no X5* chassis between the X41 and X60 models).

However, T400/T500 successors are called T410/T510, not T411/T511 or T412/T512. Anyway, its name doesn't matter for me.

[penartur]

Not people who have actually used an Edge or X100e to do work, as opposed to touching one for several seconds or minutes.

Unfortunately, i've had to use it for a couple of hours. For how long, in your opinion, should someone use it, until you will honor their negative opinion on that keyboard?

They already did... hence the Edge/X100e keyboard.

And many people out there won't consider SL/Edge/X100 to be thinkpads. IMHO these are rather ideapads with thinkpad logo.

[jvarszegi]

For how long, in your opinion, should someone use it, until you will honor their negative opinion on that keyboard?

I just can't take your opinion at face value. You obviously had an aversion to the new keyboard before whatever trying-out you may have done, and can't even remember what machine you used. Sorry; I'm not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't think that your opinion has a sound foundation. As reviews and actual user testimonials show, the new keyboard is stellar.

[penartur]

I just can't take your opinion at face value. You obviously had an aversion to the new keyboard before whatever trying-out you may have done, and can't even remember what machine you used.

I used my coworker's Edge, and i don't know whether it is 14 or 15 (i'm not good at identifying screen diagonal by eye, although i can definitely say that it wasn't 13). What was you expecting, that i will measure it by ruler before posting my impressions there?

Sorry; I'm not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't think that your opinion has a sound foundation.

Once again, i've had to use it for a couple of hours. For how long should i have used it for you to appreciate my opinion on the keyboard?
And still, what is your impression of edge keyboard layout? I mean, absent dedicated ins/del/home/end/pgup/pgdn section, need to press Fn prior to F1-F12 so that it would be recognized as F* and not as some multimedia button (don't know whether it is configurable or not) etc?

[jvarszegi]

Again, since you obviously sneer at the Edge as a "non-Thinkpad" and could not identify the machine you used, and your opinion runs so contrary to reviewers and users who have used the new keyboards extensively, I simply cannot accept your opinion at face value. We can agree to disagree about whether your opinion has a proper basis. In any event, it is most definitely non-representative.

As for the Edge layout, I would prefer a layout that didn't make the function keys secondary (wondering if that's changeable by a setting). When it comes to that, the X100e keyboard would annoy some people with its layout too, due to some keys being removed (I never use keys such as Scroll Lock, but someone must). The main thing I'd like to see in the X2xx series is the option for the island-style keys; it'd be fine to keep the current layout.

The new keys make better use of the space available at the top of the key, and the keyboard can be made thinner; these are bonuses. I am not joking when I say that I type more quickly and accurately on the new keyboard, and tests bear these advantages out.

[JaneL]

jvarszegi & penartur

You two - take it outside. If this argument continues, this thread will be closed.

[nfotis]

Hello,

My own experience with X series was with an X41 years ago, and I hope to buy one X20x in the near future.

My thinkpad experience comes from a T40 (died with the motherboard flex due to ATI Radeon), and currently I am using a T60 (both are 4:3 1024x768 screens).

Important to keep, in my opinion:
- keyboard: as I am a touch typist, a good keyboard is a must.
The upper class Thinkpads are in a rare group of portable computers with good keyboards, and it is important to me (and many others, I suspect).

- generally good reliability and quality
(except the T40 ATI fiasco and the Nvidia discrete graphics in T6x, both of which are not attributable to IBM/Lenovo, as far as I can understand)

- good support

Things I would like to see in a future X20x:
- Sandy Bridge refresh (= better performance at lower wattage doesn't hurt), and removing the Intel VGA processor from the motherboard should improve things. Somewhere in middle of 2011, I guess.

- Better battery duration with the same batteries/peripherals

- No need to change form factor - in fact, I would be all for removing the touchpad and reducing the size a bit.

- A better quality of 1280x800 screens, no slimmer than 16:10
(I do not care at all for 16:9 screens, when I write documents in OpenOffice I need as much vertical space as possible. That is the reason I bought a T60 with a 4:3 monitor, too - and, sadly, these monitors are becoming more and more rare )

- Lower prices for EU people (maybe with rebates?)
(as an EU citizen, I see the rebates and prices at the US Lenovo site and I get rather distressed...)

- Lower prices for SSD upgrades (ideally at 120-160 GB)

Cheers,
N.F.