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Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

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kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#31 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:16 am

Well my mum used thinkpads almost ever since the first ones came out (that's also around when IBM entered China) and she is still using a T430s today. My dad was also mostly using ThinkPads after the millennium and is using a X230 today.
Therefore my first laptop is a ThinkPad T43 but I didn't know how to speed it up properly and such so it felt really slow. Then I upgraded to a T530 but by then I also learnt to unleash the full powers of the T43 so I mainly used T43 and later T43p up until like last year when the motherboard failed from GPU desoldering. So I also had no experiences with anything other than ThinkPads up till that point.
But then also last year I brought my friend's little brother a free retired Latitude D630 from China hoping he would start using one of these before his parents waste money on a netbook for university. After bringing it to him it turns out his parents have never seen such quality business class laptops before and his parents were caught using it when he is away. Being a little frustrated we went out for a package deal of two Latitude D830s for C$35 each as that's the closest cheapest thing to that D630 and we each keep one. That's when the T43p motherboard failed. Also at the same time I had to swap out the bottom cover and the palmrest for replacements because they are cracking so badly over the micro bumps you run into from carrying it every day and also I had a broken screw pole on the palmrest, while the D830 has the bottom cover being entirely magnesium so it has zero bottom case flex and had none of those issues.
So I kept this laptop instead and I would put latitude as second best because while you do end up with things like inferior pointing stick, you also don't get nearly as much brand tax over here and these can be found for next to nothing if not for this pandemic.
Then I also found a beaten up Latitude C840 and a non-working Latitude CP M233ST for like C$20 each. Surprsingly despite the bottom cover cracked in half, the C840 has the UXGA display in remarkably good shape and the CP only needed reseating the MMC Pentium MMX CPU to get it working, although I eventually had to spray contact cleaner on the display connector as the display was fuzzing out. I was also lucky enough to come by a parted out C840 in China where they sent me the shell of the laptop to fix mine.
This really does let me know more about these Latitude laptops. For example, compared to the A31p, the C840 has the Sharp quality screen instead of Flexview, slightly worse 15" T4x grade speakers and they might fail, worse wifi signal reception, no bluetooth, worse build quality with hinges that can break the chassis if stiffened enough and worse trackpoint, but then you get a screen that aged much better, wifi antenna in every C840 model, a touchpad, far better battery life, an upgradable graphics chip that's partially DX8 capable and much faster in benchmarks than the FireGL card, and there is just no contest if you upgrade that card to the Quadro4 500 (which also changes the model name to Precision M50) or the Radeon 9000. RAM slot and GPU desoldering are also less of an issue but not impossible.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#32 Post by KentT » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:19 pm

My favorite non ThinkPad laptops in terms of average business class. I like Dell Latitude from E 5500 line and higher, and also like the older Fujitsu LifeBook T731 convertible and relatives a great deal. I also like Dell Precision laptops. For full rugged laptops, I like Panasonic ToughBooks. HP EliteBooks are also excellent machines, but pricier spare parts and accessories like that of Fujitsu.

dr_st
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#33 Post by dr_st » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:32 am

My first, last and only personal non-Thinkpad laptop was the Compaq Evo N610c, 18 years ago:
viewtopic.php?t=73888
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

w0qj
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#34 Post by w0qj » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:27 pm

ThinkPads (especially the flagship models, the T-Series, X-Series, & P-Series) are built like a tank, and lasts you a long time.
I've carried mine to/from work everyday; its built quality never failed us.
Our key ThinkPads are covered by the comprehensive 5-year warranty.
ThinkPad's premium price is justified when the total cost of ownership is amortised over the 5+ years of everyday usage.

Our key ThinkPad machines also have mobile broadband (WWAN).
Literally used it to reply while on taxi/bus/train/ferry while in the field!

We previously bought Toshiba Protege notebook computers, and both literally fell apart (especially the hinge) in our hands within 3 years of everyday use.
We fully understand why Toshiba exited the notebook computer business earlier this year (2020).

We also used HP computers, but they have a nasty habit of "having no parts", hence prematurely EoL (End of Life) for the notebook.

==>ThinkPad 5-Year Warranty to cover the electronics (especially LCD screen, motherboard & SSD).
==>ThinkPad build quality ensures notebook computer does not physically fall apart on you.

ThinkPads all the way!
Last edited by w0qj on Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Daily Driver: (X1E3) X1 Extreme 3rd Gen | mobile broadband (WWAN)
Current Thinkpads: X1E3 | X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230
Retired Thinkpads: T410 | T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#35 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:37 pm

w0qj wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:27 pm
==>ThinkPad build ensures notebook computer does not physically fall apart on you.
Well technically this is not true for the likes of the weakest built T series, T510-T530 series. I have one well used T520 and one barely used T530. The well used one is also falling apart with the palmrest having the strength far weaker than even something like the palmrest on my ThinkPad T23, and the touchpad has annoying delamination that just makes it look aged, and the barely used T530 has a completely battered heatsink plastic grille. The thing is, the well used T520 spent its entire life on a desk, yet the palmrest still cracked.
Similarly, I also happen to have a completely battered Latitude E6520. The battered E6520 has been dropped on concrete at least once and has scuffs, dings and scratches all over its body (and unsurprisingly, the hard drive is obviously dead from that kind of abuse). The palmrest has this soft touch coating like a ThinkPad lid that has gone sticky. Yet not a single thing on the laptop is cracked. But the T520 really is a bit smaller, thinner and lighter than the MIL-STD 810G rated body of the E6520 so I suppose there's that.
But you should also be glad that most T series after the clunkpad disaster of the Tx40 series until like the Tx80 series all are more or less solid business class laptops.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

w0qj
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#36 Post by w0qj » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:28 am

We switched from other brands to ThinkPads, and never looked back.
For example, our Toshiba Protege computers fell apart on us (hinges on two separate Protege machines!!) after 3 years of daily use.

It really depends on how your computer has been (ab)used...

We literally just donated our still functional T410 to another family who needed to do "zoom" school classes in this age of COVID-19...
Our T410 is still alive and well (OK, we self-upgraded it to SSD, maxed out to 8 GB RAM, but T410 itself is working well!)

But our 10+ year T410 was the machine we were specifically referring to for above (glowing) comments...despite heavy travel and its associated wear & tear!

Finally, our ThinkPad X1C3 Carbon Gen 3 had been brought to exotic locations and still functioning too!
How about a 10-hour *BUMPY* bus ride in a foreign country while replying emails over mobile broadband?

We only use ThinkPads.
kfzhu1229 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:37 pm
w0qj wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:27 pm
==>ThinkPad build ensures notebook computer does not physically fall apart on you.
Well technically this is not true for the likes of the weakest built T series, T510-T530 series. I have one well used T520 and one barely used T530. The well used one is also falling apart with the palmrest having the strength far weaker...

But you should also be glad that most T series after the clunkpad disaster of the Tx40 series until like the Tx80 series all are more or less solid business class laptops.
Daily Driver: (X1E3) X1 Extreme 3rd Gen | mobile broadband (WWAN)
Current Thinkpads: X1E3 | X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230
Retired Thinkpads: T410 | T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#37 Post by kfzhu1229 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:54 pm

w0qj wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:28 am
We switched from other brands to ThinkPads, and never looked back.
For example, our Toshiba Protege computers fell apart on us (hinges on two separate Protege machines!!) after 3 years of daily use.

It really depends on how your computer has been (ab)used...
Well fair enough for the abuse because I think the Canadian winter played a huge part in the aging of the plastics. We have typically 20 degrees Celsius of temperature difference every day vs night and up to 30 degrees if sunlight is directed at the laptop! That plays a role even if the laptop is just sitting indoors, and can really take a toll if you carry this laptop in your backpack for example when the outside is like -20C. Probably this is why Dell's use of aluminium and magnesium aged far better than the quality plastics used in ThinkPad T520.
Okay yeah I just had a look back with the "evolution" of Toshiba laptops and it's just sad after the turn of the millennium. Toshiba had some great machines in the 90s and even in early 2000s they were still great machines. And then I have received a trash picked Toshiba Satellite A70 from 2004 and that thing is definitely a step down in build quality compared to the earlier Pentium 4-M machines, with a generic Phoenix BIOS and less durable plastics, but still it's decent compared to the likes of Dell Inspirons and held up just fine. I am able to take it all apart and put everything back in with nothing breaking.
And then I have the experience of a Satellite A200 that's 2 years after that A70, and it's just totally wrecked. Same problem as you where the hinge completely snapped off, and that's thanks to the fact that Toshiba removed the magnesium support around the hinge area that are present in the Satellite A70!
And then you look at the later Satellites, well they are just the quality of acer at that point, and it's pretty much guarnteed none of those machines will actually survive by today under any sort of normal usage! Probably why Toshiba went out of business!
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

dr_st
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#38 Post by dr_st » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:49 pm

Well, Satellite is Toshiba's consumer line, I would never have high expectations of that. However, learning that the latest Portégés also suffer from reduced quality is a bit sad.

Then again, it may be just a particular flaw of a specific model. It's not like DELL's Latitudes haven't had a history of terrible hinges at some point (D600, I'm looking your way...)
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Lomax
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#39 Post by Lomax » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:46 pm

I'd be willing to consider a machine from any manufacturer as long it has:
  • TrackPoint
  • Small size
  • Matte screen
  • Sculpted keys
  • ThinkLight*
AFAIK there are no alternatives to the Thinkpad line, and the X230 with an X220 keyboard I'm currently using is the last machine that meets my requirements. Depressing.

*) Backlit keyboard would also be ok, as long as it's not "chiclet" style
600E - 600X - 770X - X31 - X32 - T43p (SATA) - T60p - X200t - X61s - X200s - X201s (PVA) - X220 - X230 (X220 kbd)

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#40 Post by kfzhu1229 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:00 pm

dr_st wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:49 pm
Well, Satellite is Toshiba's consumer line, I would never have high expectations of that. However, learning that the latest Portégés also suffer from reduced quality is a bit sad.

Then again, it may be just a particular flaw of a specific model. It's not like DELL's Latitudes haven't had a history of terrible hinges at some point (D600, I'm looking your way...)
Well actually I believe in the 90s Toshiba Satellite are darn reliable machines. I believe that trend continued until the Satellite A series in the Pentium M generation that changed things for the worst.
The last Satellite Pro series are only pro in name, and features the same internals as an acer. While if you look back to the Pentium 4-M days, a Satellite pro would come with the Sharp branded UXGA displays.
I have seen a number of Toshiba Tecras on sale around the T520 sandy bridge generation locally and well they are extremely bland looking and has neither the elegance of ThinkPads nor the rigidity in Latitudes or Elitebooks. They look like what Toshiba Satellite should've looked like. I believe they have lost their brand reputation by that point as for literally anyone I know of that has a liking of business class laptops, they would much better prefer the Latitude ThinkPad Elitebook trio than something like a Tecra or a Travelmate.
And yeah the Dx00 and Dx10 series had lots of problems with their build quality and the plastics simply don't feel the same as the C series that came before it. Though I guess their strong suit is they don't fail with soldering failure like the T4x series do. But I find their screens having a higher chance of backlight failure than ThinkPads.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

cadillacmike68
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#41 Post by cadillacmike68 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:31 pm

kfzhu1229 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:37 pm
w0qj wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:27 pm
==>ThinkPad build ensures notebook computer does not physically fall apart on you.
Well technically this is not true for the likes of the weakest built T series, T510-T530 series. I have one well used T520 and one barely used T530. The well used one is also falling apart with the palmrest having the strength far weaker than even something like the palmrest on my ThinkPad T23, and the touchpad has annoying delamination that just makes it look aged, and the barely used T530 has a completely battered heatsink plastic grille. The thing is, the well used T520 spent its entire life on a desk, yet the palmrest still cracked.
Similarly, I also happen to have a completely battered Latitude E6520. The battered E6520 has been dropped on concrete at least once and has scuffs, dings and scratches all over its body (and unsurprisingly, the hard drive is obviously dead from that kind of abuse). The palmrest has this soft touch coating like a ThinkPad lid that has gone sticky. Yet not a single thing on the laptop is cracked. But the T520 really is a bit smaller, thinner and lighter than the MIL-STD 810G rated body of the E6520 so I suppose there's that.
But you should also be glad that most T series after the clunkpad disaster of the Tx40 series until like the Tx80 series all are more or less solid business class laptops.


I'm not disagreeing about the T500 line, but the T61s are quite robust. I dropped the boss lady's T61 6463 onto the tile floor, about a 2 foot drop (by accident, but hey...). The hinge or hinge brace or chassis is slightly bent because it's now quite stiff and takes some finagling to lock both tabs when closing the lid, but it's still working fine and no problems with the HDD either. No screen issues and no strange behavior. The system was off, which was good.

I tried servicing a customer's Toshiba satellite (win 7 era) and the insides had corroded so bad I could not get all the screws off. And there some snap off parts to separate the casing, which always sucks. She has a ThinkPad now.

My only non ThinkPad laptop was the first one I ever bought, an old Micro Express with W95 or W98 on it. It was Ok, but the FDD went bad in a couple months and the batteries failed in less than a year. Then I was brought in at IBM (actually a subsidiary, bur later into IBM itself) and got acquainted with ThinkPads. Ive been quite pleased overall so far.
600, 600X
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#42 Post by kfzhu1229 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:31 pm

cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:31 pm
I'm not disagreeing about the T500 line, but the T61s are quite robust. I dropped the boss lady's T61 6463 onto the tile floor, about a 2 foot drop (by accident, but hey...). The hinge or hinge brace or chassis is slightly bent because it's now quite stiff and takes some finagling to lock both tabs when closing the lid, but it's still working fine and no problems with the HDD either. No screen issues and no strange behavior. The system was off, which was good.
Hey well I did a similar "experiment" with my Dell Latitude D830, from that T61 era, essentially a 15.4" widescreen T61. It dropped off my bed onto the wooden floor which is also about 2 feet, and well the laptop came out unscathed but the floor now has a giant dent where I dropped it. :lol:
I imagine if I drop it on that same angle onto tile instead, I would have to replace that tile :lol:
I suppose ThinkPad wins in this aspect because the plastic is much more forgiving to whatever it touches against when being dropped.
Also when this thing touches the wall, it leaves a streak of black mark as if you just drew using pencil onto the wall.
But I do agree that the T6x seem much stronger than the T520, that it suffers from neither the T4x chassis flex problem, nor the lower quality plastics used on T500 line. The GPU failure isn't exactly Lenovo's fault so yeah.
cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:31 pm
I tried servicing a customer's Toshiba satellite (win 7 era) and the insides had corroded so bad I could not get all the screws off. And there some snap off parts to separate the casing, which always sucks. She has a ThinkPad now.
Well that seems to agree with what my friend's experience was with a Satellite A200 (T60 era) before the screen broke, and at that point everything is falling apart, so I have replaced it with a Precision M4300 for him and a smaller Latitude D630 for his dad.
Though to be fair, that A200 went thorugh a lot. It went through a cockroach infestation and yet the low heat nature of iGPU saved itself that the motherboard is perfectly working. But all that heat on the inside means the plastics inside are now so brittle that touching the low-cost ZIF connectors inside is like removing RAM on a plastic only SIMM slot on something like a Commodore Amiga, and taking the screen off the computer is like performing a heart surgery and requires 2 men to operate!
P.S. Later it turns out the screen backlight broke not because the backlight is dead, but rather a cockroach took a chomp on the red wire for the CCFL bulb and performed a suicide, and eventually from the internal resistance of the cockroach, the wire heated up enough to melt the solder and disconnect :lol:
I know this because I took the backlight off to fix a WUXGA panel and it worked perfectly (that burnt screen has a vertical line on it anyway so it's not worth saving).
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

ajkula66
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#43 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:55 pm

Looking back now that I'm mostly retired from working on laptops of any kind, it comes down to the keyboard and TrackPoint, at least for me.

If I wanted a better (modern) screen than anything that was ever offered on a ThinkPad, I'd grab the 8740W that was just posted in the Marketplace. One has to experience a DC 2 panel to understand how truly glorious these are. The keyboard leaves a lot to be desired but the Trackpoint rendition is a lot better than Dell's, IMO.

When it comes to build quality, Panasonic rules supreme but there's no trackpoint and the keyboards are meh...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

cadillacmike68
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#44 Post by cadillacmike68 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:24 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:55 pm
Looking back now that I'm mostly retired from working on laptops of any kind, it comes down to the keyboard and TrackPoint, at least for me.

If I wanted a better (modern) screen than anything that was ever offered on a ThinkPad, I'd grab the 8740W that was just posted in the Marketplace. One has to experience a DC 2 panel to understand how truly glorious these are. The keyboard leaves a lot to be desired but the Trackpoint rendition is a lot better than Dell's, IMO.

When it comes to build quality, Panasonic rules supreme but there's no trackpoint and the keyboards are meh...


Well, I'm not "retired from using laptops", but my main machine, you can't even find the ThinkPad. It's docked and is under several USB HDDs and remotes for my Acoustic Wave, I use a full size beige blue letter IBM keyboard, full size optical mouse and a Dell U2412M monitor. Boss lady has a similar setup with two U2412Ms. Even my travel machine is docked when it's here with a full size IBM marked ThinkPad keyboard, mouse and an Acer 22" 16:10 monitor (I can't justify buying a 4th U2412M).

So, yeah a ThinkPad, but maxed out every which way.
600, 600X
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530

ajkula66
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Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#45 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:56 pm

cadillacmike68 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:24 pm

So, yeah a ThinkPad, but maxed out every which way.
When I said that I was "retired from working on laptops" I was referring to fixing them, not using them in general. Apologies for lack of clarity.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#46 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:32 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:56 pm
When I said that I was "retired from working on laptops" I was referring to fixing them, not using them in general. Apologies for lack of clarity.
Well I suppose in that case I kind of just do it when I see good deals locally, like e-waste prices for those that are about to throw them to e-waste, like that Toshiba Satellite A70 I mentioned about. Got it for a grand total of C$5 in totally unknown condition. But, surprise surprise, not only is the laptop working, but the monster 12-cell battery also works as well as the screen is totally flawless. It's one of those earliest WXGA panels that actually have 1:500 contrast ratio and 55 degrees of viewing angles.
I found a genuine 120W charger to go with it (same plug as the T4x ThinkPads so quite rare for this kind of power rating), slapped Windows 98 SE on it and then sold it off to a buyer that wants it as a christmas gift.
ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:55 pm
If I wanted a better (modern) screen than anything that was ever offered on a ThinkPad, I'd grab the 8740W that was just posted in the Marketplace. One has to experience a DC 2 panel to understand how truly glorious these are. The keyboard leaves a lot to be desired but the Trackpoint rendition is a lot better than Dell's, IMO.
Fair enough. Dell's trackpoint rendition were never all that great compared to HP's. It takes a long time to get used to. Back when HP Omnibooks and Micron were the only other laptops to actually have a trackpoint and a touchpad simutaneously, Dell stood out then. They just never really improved much in the trackpoint. It took them all the way to the Latitude D400, D610, D810 to actually have usable trackpoint buttons. The earlier D600/D800 had this annoyingly raised plastic bar inbetween the trackpoint buttons and the touchpad that makes your thumb hit against that plastic bar every time when you hit the buttons and it's an annoying finger massage.
But hey if you are buying a new one today, Latitudes are the only mainstream models that kept the physical touchpad buttons along with the trackpoint and its buttons.
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#47 Post by w0qj » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:59 pm

Well, *maybe* the upcoming 30th ThinkPad Anniversary in the Year 2022 might have something like a "T30" (my own naming convention, "30" for 30th anniversary).
It's 14" LCD, got most of what you want, but no ThinkLight (looks like it's gone forever).
[Edit]I do realize that there's an old ThinkPad model out there already named "T30", but I'm dramatizing this to emphasize the "30" for the 30th ThinkPad Anniversary .[/Edit]

Start saving up for this now! ;)
Lomax wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:46 pm
I'd be willing to consider a machine from any manufacturer as long it has:
  • TrackPoint
  • Small size
  • Matte screen
  • Sculpted keys
  • ThinkLight*
AFAIK there are no alternatives to the Thinkpad line, and the X230 with an X220 keyboard I'm currently using is the last machine that meets my requirements. Depressing.

*) Backlit keyboard would also be ok, as long as it's not "chiclet" style
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#48 Post by TheForgottenKing » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:32 pm

Lomax wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:46 pm
I'd be willing to consider a machine from any manufacturer as long it has:
  • TrackPoint
  • Small size
  • Matte screen
  • Sculpted keys
  • ThinkLight*
AFAIK there are no alternatives to the Thinkpad line, and the X230 with an X220 keyboard I'm currently using is the last machine that meets my requirements. Depressing.

*) Backlit keyboard would also be ok, as long as it's not "chiclet" style
If you've got money to burn, I think a T480 with the T25 keyboard mod ($400 for the mod kit) is probably the most powerful machine that fits your requirements: https://www.xyte.ch/shop/t25-frankenpad-kit
W701ds: i7-940XM - 32GB DDR3 - 256GB SSD + 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD - FX 2800M - 17" 1920x1200 + 10" 768x1280 - ODD - Dock - Wacom - Calibrator
701R: Intel Atom x7-Z8750 - 8GB - 256GB eMMC - 1920x1200 @ 10.1" - 701C Keyboard - WIP
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#49 Post by amardeep » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:00 pm

w0qj wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:59 pm
Well, *maybe* the upcoming 30th ThinkPad Anniversary in the Year 2022 might have something like a "T30" (my own naming convention, "30" for 30th anniversary).
It's 14" LCD, got most of what you want, but no ThinkLight (looks like it's gone forever).
[Edit]I do realize that there's an old ThinkPad model out there already named "T30", but I'm dramatizing this to emphasize the "30" for the 30th ThinkPad Anniversary .[/Edit]
Unless you know something no-one else does, I'm highly sceptical there'll even be a T30th, never mind one with any features of note (they didn't exactly over-exert themselves with the T25).

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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#50 Post by w0qj » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:31 pm

Under Lenovo, there were:

5th Anniversary ThinkPad
10th Anniversary ThinkPad
15th Anniversary ThinkPad
20th Anniversary ThinkPad

[Edit: Also: 25th Anniversary ThinkPad = T25 ]

Just my own personal guess: Perhaps there'll be 25th 30th Anniversary ThinkPad in 2022 ?

<Thanks to everyone who spotted the 25th/30th mistake!>
Last edited by w0qj on Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#51 Post by kfzhu1229 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:58 pm

w0qj wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:31 pm
Just my own personal guess: Perhaps there'll be 25th Anniversary ThinkPad in 2022 ?
Think you meant 30th anniversary... the 25 year was already past.
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#52 Post by Ibthink » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:20 pm

10th anniversary model (a special X30 in Japan in 2002) was from IBM, not from Lenovo.

15th and 20th anniversary models were rather small affairs - the 15th was the ThinkPad Reserve (X61 with special leather cover) and 20th a special, Japan-only version of the X1 Carbon Gen 1.

ThinkPad 25 was the only anniversary model with actual meaningful hardware changes. My guess is if there is gonna be something in 2022, it will be something small.
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#53 Post by cadillacmike68 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:37 am

I'd rather have a 50h anniversary Canon F-1.
600, 600X
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T41 T42 T43
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#54 Post by Lomax » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:32 pm
If you've got money to burn, I think a T480 with the T25 keyboard mod ($400 for the mod kit) is probably the most powerful machine that fits your requirements: https://www.xyte.ch/shop/t25-frankenpad-kit
But this has a glossy screen and cannot be considered a "small" laptop by any standard. By small I mean with minimal width & depth; I could not care less about thickness - in fact I prefer a little heft over ridiculously ultra slim machines like the Macbook Air, which has been slimmed to the point where it's both fragile and unserviceable.
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#55 Post by dr_st » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:07 pm

Lomax wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
But this has a glossy screen and cannot be considered a "small" laptop by any standard.
The glossy screen as a matter of choice (plenty of matte options), but yeah, the size is what it is.
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#56 Post by TheForgottenKing » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:25 pm

Lomax wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:32 pm
If you've got money to burn, I think a T480 with the T25 keyboard mod ($400 for the mod kit) is probably the most powerful machine that fits your requirements: https://www.xyte.ch/shop/t25-frankenpad-kit
But this has a glossy screen and cannot be considered a "small" laptop by any standard. By small I mean with minimal width & depth; I could not care less about thickness - in fact I prefer a little heft over ridiculously ultra slim machines like the Macbook Air, which has been slimmed to the point where it's both fragile and unserviceable.
Fear not, a man named xueyao also known as xytech is working on an X330 motherboard with an 11th gen i7 and a 2560x1600 screen (which is already an option for the X330), perfect for you.
W701ds: i7-940XM - 32GB DDR3 - 256GB SSD + 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD - FX 2800M - 17" 1920x1200 + 10" 768x1280 - ODD - Dock - Wacom - Calibrator
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#57 Post by schen » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:22 am

Now that "I'm back", I guess I'll try my hand at keeping this Zombie thread going a bit longer. :twisted:

For me; there is no second best...... not that there aren't other good machine/companies out there. Here's my thoughts on this.
* There's only the ThinkPad Trackpoint and no other. I did IT desktop support for some years and have managed fleets of machines and I've handled lots of other laptops with a version of "the nub" on their machines ranging from HP, to Dell to Toshiba and Sony; none of them feel right.
* The keyboard. No, I don't get hung up on the traditional (non-chiclet) versions. My experience goes back to the 701c which was my first ThinkPad and it didn't have a very good keyboard at all. Was I nervous when I moved to the T430s? You bet, but it turned out that I actually type a bit better on it than the old version. I've used every single "T" series machine from the T20 to my current T450s and almost all the "Xs", I'd say the 600 has the most solid deck, the last generation (up to the T420) has the best layout, but I type the best on my current machine.

Everything else, I can get over. I've worked on tiny (701c's 10.4") to truly bad (600 Dual-scan passive matrix/X300 TN panel) to my current 1080 IPS as really good along with George's lover interest, the A31 IPS panels. It turns out that it's a combination of pixel density and panel technology that I have to balance. I've seen plenty of really good panels on other folk's machines starting with Macbook, so it's not a thing for me. Who does stuff better?

* Apple- build quality, innovation, sheer beauty, feel
* Asus- Innovation
* Sony- Design
* Panasonic- bullet-proof build
* Razer- Everything that applied to Apple, but not Apple
* Dell- The ability to check every box and hit the price-point

However, none of these companies are able to be at or close to the top of all these items for such a long period of time. For Pete's Sakes, we're talking a 30 Anniversary edition in 2022! When all this is packaged together in the almost-top-of-the-line build quality; that's what makes ThinkPads my one and only with no 2nd best.
Family Daily Drivers- T430s, T450s
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#58 Post by crashnburn » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:53 am

MikalE wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:37 am
I usually catch spam very early in the mornings and report it. I missed this.
But truly, maybe this thread needed a revival and a 2020/21 updated comparative - whats a close second NOW? If any?
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#59 Post by JaneKing » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:10 pm

ThinkPad is so classy. simple yet beautiful matte black aesthetic.
I love how thin it is.
I like that the HDD and memory are user-upgradeable.
I also really like the display.

Hmmm...2nd best...HP Envy x360 13

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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#60 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:44 pm

crashnburn wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:53 am
But truly, maybe this thread needed a revival and a 2020/21 updated comparative - whats a close second NOW? If any?
I have not changed my opinion. It's always ThinkPads or Latitudes. I like how their older models try to achieve durability longevity and such in totally different ways. However I am also open to get my hands on good quality HP or Toshiba laptops like I have done with Satellite A70.
Thinkpads were always towards the more elegant side of things in the world of business laptops, Latitudes were built for maximum practicality. Trackpoints were a world better, and the Alps touchpads on the Latitudes are also a world more precise than the synaptics ones, being bigger and precise enough for you to move pixel by pixel in mspaint for example.
As for board design, ThinkPad likes to use lots of fuses for protection against permanent damage, Latitude likes to use just stronger components and certain resettable safety devices such as MOSFETs.
Unfortunately now the mainstream 14" and 15.6" ones they are both black on the outside, black on the inside and have the same chicklet style keyboard, just one has a blue pointing stick and the other has a red trackpoint. If not USBC, one comes with the rectangular charging port (that might be easy to kill the superio), and the other still comes with the old style big barrel jack that's in use for a good 17 years by now.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

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