Linux Mint 10 Julia Released

[Harryc]

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1581

[Radioguy]

Yum.

Although, I'm surprised there hasn't been a "Spear", "Pepper" and so on.

By the way Harry, what's the best way to do a permanent install alongside Win 7?

I want to shrink my Win 7 partition, create a new one, and install Mint (KDE ver.) on that. Thing is, I want to pose as little risk to the Win install, and would like to have its bootloader by default.

[Harryc]

Do you have a recovery partition?

[ThinkRob]

Any idea if they've finally started supporting signing for their repositories? Last I checked (a year or so ago) they didn't.

Other than that, Mint looks great!

[Harryc]

Mint allows the user to install from unsigned sources and gives a warning to all sources (both signed and unsigned) through apt even though the main Mint and LMDE repositories are signed and secure. Here's a thread with more detail...
http://peppermintos.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2440

[ThinkRob]

Mint allows the user to install from unsigned sources and gives a warning to all sources (both signed and unsigned) through apt even though the main Mint and LMDE repositories are signed and secure. Here's a thread with more detail...
http://peppermintos.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2440

I was referring to the APT message of "Authentication warning overridden" that appears when installing packages from the Mint repos. This thread is what really got my dander up back when I first ran into the issue. Now obviously that was quite a while ago, and so I suppose that three releases later it's probably fixed.

[Radioguy]

Do you have a recovery partition?

I do. Will they not play well together?

[Harryc]

Well, if you install Linux normally, GRUB will overwrite the MBR, so in effect your Thinkvantage button will not work on boot to go into R&R. GRUB 'should' however offer an option to boot into the recovery partition as well as Windows. I do not know of a way off the top of my head to install Linux on a second partition without disturbing Windows in any way, which is what I think you are asking. Try a Google search as this has to be a common question. I'd guess you install Linux and put GRUB on the extended or Primary boot partition with it, and then do some slicing and dicing with the Windows bootloader. The option on where to locate GRUB would be in a bootloader config panel during the Linux installer process, which would vary by Distro. I also think you'd get more pointed help for this particular question in a Distro specific forum.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/

[Radioguy]

Well, if you install Linux normally, GRUB will overwrite the MBR, so in effect your Thinkvantage button will not work on boot to go into R&R. GRUB 'should' however offer an option to boot into the recovery partition as well as Windows. I do not know of a way off the top of my head to install Linux on a second partition without disturbing Windows in any way, which is what I think you are asking. Try a Google search as this has to be a common question. I'd guess you install Linux and put GRUB on the extended or Primary boot partition with it, and then do some slicing and dicing with the Windows bootloader. The option on where to locate GRUB would be in a bootloader config panel during the Linux installer process, which would vary by Distro. I also think you'd get more pointed help for this particular question in a Distro specific forum.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/

You would think it's been addressed there, but no. My searching has not spawned anything specific to dual-booting with the Win7 bootloader or any reference to R&R.

Obviously, you assumed correctly as to my intent: Installing Mint, and adding it to the Win7 bootloader. I saw some passing reference on an Ubuntu forum stating it's been done, but no information as to how. I could just start a thread on the Mint forum (regged already), but preservation of the Win7 bootloader doesn't seem to come up much there. I have a feeling the answer will be GRUB to everything.

By the way, you say that GRUB needs to be on that partition with Mint? Will the Win7 bootloader not be able to boot Mint alone even if it's listed?

[Harryc]

Will the Win7 bootloader not be able to boot Mint alone even if it's listed?

Well no, I think it will be able to if you can figure out how to edit the boot.ini file to make it work. Here's another approach with basically the same result - if you put GRUB on the same partition as Mint and make it a boot partition (active boot flag), the machine will boot up and present you with the GRUB menu (not Windows bootloader) . One of the selections will be Mint, the other will be Windows. I believe that would work if you can live with that. It should not touch the Windows install or the MBR of the drive or the R&R partition, but you will not get a Windows boot screen when you power on the machine. To get rid of it you'd simply format the Mint partition and put the boot flag back on Windows, or simply keep Mint and put the boot flag back on the Windows partition. Then it would boot right into Windows again. GParted comes to mind as a tool to be used to toggle the boot flag.

[thinkpad1]

Is the OP saying, basically, that he desires the Windows 7 bootloader control the booting with a Linux OS installed? That to me, is strange, because Windows is designed to only boot itself. Even when you have XP one one partition and on another partition you then install Windows 7, Windows 7 WON'T give you the option to boot XP! AT least, that is what I was A) told and B) read. I really doubt that's inaccurate. That tells you something, doesn't it? Sounds like a lot of trouble but there is probably some workaround but sounds like more trouble than its worth.

If you use a Live CD or DVD, you can shrink your partitions and do what you want to do. For e.g., I use SystemRescueCD to do this if I need it done or to prepare the partitions for installs. PartedMagic does the same thing but I haven't used it for these tasks yet.

Linux Mint will use Grub 2 (1.98) but it should be mature now. There's a different method for editing grub (there is no grub.conf file now) but there's instructions and info on how to edit it. Just google it. I haven't had to edit Grub 2 yet so I can't give a lot of detailed instructions. As long as you have a 2nd computer handy with internet access, you can google the solution.

I hope that helps.

I think Grub should be sufficient but it depends why you want the Windows 7 boot manager to control the boot process. If you install Linux, Grub 2 normally 'becomes' the boot manager (and you go to the Grub screen) if you install the Linux to the MBR. If you insist on Windows 7 controlling the booting, you will want to install Mint 10's grub in the root partition so it doesn't overwrite the Windows MBR. But, then you have to research the method so that Windows will 'see' your Mint OS and give you the option to boot it.

[Radioguy]

Well no, I think it will be able to if you can figure out how to edit the boot.ini file to make it work.

If that is indeed possible, I would like to know more about it, despite any additional workarounds.

Here's another approach with basically the same result - if you put GRUB on the same partition as Mint and make it a boot partition (active boot flag), the machine will boot up and present you with the GRUB menu (not Windows bootloader) . One of the selections will be Mint, the other will be Windows. I believe that would work if you can live with that. It should not touch the Windows install or the MBR of the drive or the R&R partition, but you will not get a Windows boot screen when you power on the machine. To get rid of it you'd simply format the Mint partition and put the boot flag back on Windows, or simply keep Mint and put the boot flag back on the Windows partition. Then it would boot right into Windows again. GParted comes to mind as a tool to be used to toggle the boot flag.

If you insist on Windows 7 controlling the booting, you will want to install Mint 10's grub in the root partition so it doesn't overwrite the Windows MBR. But, then you have to research the method so that Windows will 'see' your Mint OS and give you the option to boot it.

Seems the same idea, yes? That may be the only practical solution for me, although, I would prefer Windows' bootloader recognize Mint as a bootable OS.

I see that you both wonder why I specifically want this. Well, for one, this all stems from caution to begin with; One, I want to take the least amount of risk, most especially (now) to the R&R partition and F8 options, and two, I would like the Linux install to be as unobtrusive as possible. While I know some of you are advocates of Linux, I would like Win7 to remain my primary OS, and have its bootup as unaffected as I can.

Ideally, I would like nothing to change short of my invoking the boot menu, say by F12, and choosing Mint. If that's not possible, I wish to come as close as I can.

[Harryc]

Is this Linux Mint install for your T61? IMHO the best approach on any Thinkpad for dual booting is to run a second hard drive in an Ultrabay adapter and install everything Linux related on it, including GRUB. Then change your boot order to put the Ultrabay adapter at the top. When you want to boot into Windows, you simply remove the Ultrabay drive, or switch boot drives at the F12 prompt, or choose Windows at the GRUB boot screen, or change the boot order in BIOS. It's a very flexible and non-intrusive (to Windows) arrangement.

[Radioguy]

It's crossed my mind, but I do have room on my boot drive. I also don't yet have the HDD adapter (looking for the right price). It's also key that said adapter be compatible with the retaining screw since my T61 does travel. I've noticed my Ultraburner is starting to slip out a bit during travel because I removed the screw so as to allow my use of an Ultrabay battery.

It would just be easier to install it on my main HDD and not have another swapping issue.

[Harryc]

I have no idea if the 2nd HDD adapter is compatible with the retaining/security screw on a T61, or any Thinkpad. Interesting question, if anyone knows the answer reply here.

[moronoxyd]

Even when you have XP one one partition and on another partition you then install Windows 7, Windows 7 WON'T give you the option to boot XP! AT least, that is what I was A) told and B) read. I really doubt that's inaccurate.

But it is.
If you install Windows 7 after Windows XP the Win7 bootloader will give you the option to boot Win XP, unless you managed to delete the Win XP partition in the process or something else went wrong.

Also, you can tell the Windows bootloader (either Win XP or Win 7) to boot other systems like Linux, but you have to add them to the list by hand, as Windows doesn't offer them automatically.
That's really easy for Win XP (write the Linux bootsector into a file, say by using "dd if=/dev/sda of=/mnt/linux.mbr bs=512 count=1" and add the line "c:\linux.mbr="my Linux of choice" to c:\boot.ini). For Win 7 the easiest way would be to use a tool like EasyBCD.


//edit: Sorry, forgot half of the dd-Command

[ParatoOptimal]

On the multi OS issue with W7 and Linux, everything I've read has always stipulated installing Win versions with oldest first with later versions installed in order of release and Linux AFTER any and all Win installs. I've read that the Win boot loader is more likely to get hinky and crash with Linux where as Linux/Grub play nice and load all OSes equally. The Grub loader has always been more flexible than Win's loader. I've had XP's boot loader crash numerous times back when XP was loaded with Win98SE and even when XP was the ONLY OS loaded.

[ajkula66]

Harryc wrote:

I have no idea if the 2nd HDD adapter is compatible with the retaining/security screw on a T61, or any Thinkpad. Interesting question, if anyone knows the answer reply here.

No it's not. It's missing an insertion point that T4x/T6x media drive have to enable the screw to hold them in place.

[ThinkRob]

OI've read that the Win boot loader is more likely to get hinky and crash with Linux where as Linux/Grub play nice and load all OSes equally. The Grub loader has always been more flexible than Win's loader.

This is absolutely in line with my experience. I've never had a problem with GRUB (or, heck, even LILO) loading both Windows and *nix OSs. I *have* had problems getting Windows's bootloader to do anything other than boot Windows.

[Neil]

Is there any compelling reason to go with Mint 10 instead of Mint 9? I'm thinking of staying with 9 because it is a LTS version. Is that reasonable?

[Harryc]

Neil, if LM 9 is working for you then I'd agree there is no reason to upgrade. I did this upgrade specifically fix (2) problems I was having. The first was with SPDIF out on the Advanced Mini Dock...never worked until LM 10 for me. The second problem is documented at this link, also fixed. http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54878

[ThinkRob]

The second problem is documented at this link, also fixed. http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54878

Has this been reported upstream? Since it's been fixed in the driver(s) and since it's got a major, negative impact on functionality, I'm pretty sure it's the sort of thing that Canonical can and will patch, despite 10.04's LTS status.

[Harryc]

Has this been reported upstream?

, I drink the Linux cool-aid from time to time, but I definitely don't have time to swallow an entire glass of it.

[ThinkRob]

, I drink the Linux cool-aid from time to time, but I definitely don't have time to swallow an entire glass of it.

It takes all of 30 seconds to report a bug -- heck, there's even a nick, point-n-click GUI app for it! -- and in this case, it might actually result in the fix being issued to you fairly quickly. Still, you're not required to, so I can certainly understand your perspective.

I absolutely would report it, but I lack a box running Ubuntu. If it's still around when it comes time for me to use Lucid again I'll file a report.

[t140568]

"Julia" ... That was the name of one of my previous Thinkpads! Creepy!

[Harryc]

"Julia" ... That was the name of one of my previous Thinkpads! Creepy!

Frankly it's a bit creepy that you name your Thinkpads .

[ThinkRob]

Frankly it's a bit creepy that you name your Thinkpads .

Aw, that's nothing. Now when they start responding to their names... That's when I'd get worried.

Kidding aside, I suppose I technically do name my machines as well, but only in the sense of coming up with hostnames for when they're on the home network. I've got anywhere from 5-10 hosts connected at a time, so I kinda need to do that so as to keep everything straight.

[t140568]

I'm not worried about them responding, just concerned about them turning against me. "I'm sorry, Tim. I'm afraid I can't do that" ala 2001: A Space Odyssey. Seriously, though, the hostname is what I was referring to.

[ThinkRob]

Seriously, though, the hostname is what I was referring to.

Ah. Right. The naming convention I use is as follows:

Laptops get bird names, selected according to their color (ThinkPads get names like 'raven', 'crow', 'kestrel', etc.)

Desktops get names based on their appearance (i.e. my IntelliStation is 'blacktank').

My home server is named 'coreserv', but it has a number of CNAMEs corresponding to the functions it provides ('fileserv', 'mediaserv', 'backupserv', etc.) so as to allow me to easily split off those functions to another box if necessary.

Mobile devices get boring names ('bb', 'n1', etc.) because they're not often connected and I almost never connect to them.

Front-ends and appliances are named according to function ('audio-livingroom', 'xbmc-study', etc.), and are placed on their own subdomain 'av.home.<rest-of-domain>'.

As for networking gear, the naming is strictly functional ('edge-study', 'wds-kitchen', 'core', etc.) with the exception of the modem/gateway, which is 1) on its own subnet 2) inaccessible from inside the network 3) not named.

And finally, the print server is named 'slug', as it's an NSLU2.