Pro's and Cons of Buying a T42

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manny · #31 Post by **manny** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:17 pm

Took the plunge and got the FVU. Tell me I made the right choice.

asiafish · #32 Post by **asiafish** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:50 pm

You made the right choice

gazingwa · #33 Post by **gazingwa** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:14 pm

great unit, as long as you purchased on the card site for 1379

asiafish · #34 Post by **asiafish** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:21 pm

Its only money.

Still the 14" T42s are probably about the best all-around laptop computer design on the market, can't go wrong no matter which version you get.

manny · #35 Post by **manny** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:32 pm

Actually changed my order and got the 2379DXU for 1500 shipped. I dropped by a store and didn't find the 15" very heavy. Its apparently only 0.5 pounds heavier..

asiafish · #36 Post by **asiafish** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:38 pm

Its closer to a full pound, perhaps you compared a 6 cell 15" to a 9 cell 14"? There is also a difference in physical size of the units (obviously). I find the 14" to be the largest case size that doesn't intrude, and can actually use it on a coach class airplane seat. The 15" is a smidge larger than the old T20 series, which was just a bit too large when flying coach.

manny · #37 Post by **manny** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:45 pm

I won't really be flying with the TP, just for home use so I'm not concerned about flights too much. I will be moving it around the apartment quite a bit though.
On the phone, I was told the FVU was 4.95 pounds and the DXU was 5.4 pounds. The one I saw in the store was a 15" (2373-CVU) and was missing the CD-R drive - it felt pretty light and like the weight was spread out over the body pretty well.

asiafish · #38 Post by **asiafish** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:53 pm

Not sure what battery the FVU has. Mine is a T42p (GVU) so it came with the 9 cell and weighs about 5.3lbs, drops to a bit under 5lbs with the 6 cell.

For mostly home use the 15" is fine. Did you get the UXGA screen? XGA on a 15" is a bit strange (very large pixels), but the UXGA would be a treat.

manny · #39 Post by **manny** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:58 pm

No I got the SXGA+ IPS. The screen looked really nice in the store.

asiafish · #40 Post by **asiafish** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:10 pm

One thing, IPS screens really suck batteries dry, if you want to use unplugged you should look into getting a 9 cell.

I have the SXGA 14" and love it, gorgeous color and such tiny pixels. I'm sure you'll love yours.

manny · #41 Post by **manny** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:12 pm

What is IPS, why does it suck batteries dry? Also, how long would a 6-cell or 9-cell battery last?

asiafish · #42 Post by **asiafish** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:28 pm

IPS is the technology for flex view screens, and it uses more power than conventional screens.

I have no idea on your battery life with the 15" IPS screen, I have the 14" which is conventional. Also processor speed affects it, I have the 1.8

I get about 3:45 on the t cell and about 5:20 on the 9 cell

manny · #43 Post by **manny** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:18 pm

So do you think its worth changing my order back to the FVU? I have been reading about 'ghosting' problems on the Flexview LCDs. I would rather just get the FVU over the DXU if the LCD is worse, sucks up power and the laptop is heavier. Are there any other models that have the extras of the DXU, but with a 14.1" screen? I would like to stay under 1500 using EPP. Currently, my DXU is about 1500, and the FVU was 1250 with upgrade to 512mb RAM.

asiafish · #44 Post by **asiafish** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:50 pm

Most people with teh Flexview seem to like it, and I can't comment as I've never seen one. Personally I just don't like large laptops and the 15" is just a bit too large. The 14" is on the big side for me, but since the X lacks an optical drive I tollerate the size of the T.

darrenf · #45 Post by **darrenf** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:54 pm

Manny,

I may not be the best council because the FlexView that I use is a desktop screen, but I sold two 2379DXUs this week and I used them for a day before turning them over to the new owners so I've at least seen the ThinkPad FlexView. Unfortunately I didn't play any games during that time so my experience with ghosting is still limited to what I've seen on the desktop display.

While the 2379DXU FlexView was brighter than the brightest setting on my non-FlexView screen, I don't consider the picture extraordinary. In fact I thought the screen was a little unevenly backlit and found it odd that the band of screen perpendicular to my line of sight was quite a bit brighter than the rest of the screen. This is an effect similar to what you would see viewing a projection TV up close. Similar to a projection TV, the effect went away when viewing from further away. I was only conscious of it occasionally.

The 2379DXU is at a very good price right now for the feature set. To build a 2378FVU up to the same specs (warranty, HDD, RAM, BT) would probably cost more than the DXU. If it wasn't so huge I would have one, but IMHO the case is unnecessarily large (particularly the thickness of the lid - ouch!). Consider too that the FlexView draws 60% more power than a similar 15" screen and the 15" draws more power than the 14" to start with, so if you plan to use the laptop on battery power you will have to work fast.

My laptop is the 2378FVU and while I don't think that the screen is anything special, I do think that it's better than most laptop screens that I've seen. The backlighting is even throughout and thanks to the resolution there is very little "windowscreen" effect (that black grid that one sometimes sees around and between the pixels).

The color on the 14" SXGA screen has a blue cast that I don't remember seeing on the 15" of the DXU. I've had to correct the blue out with color profiles on my FVU. If the color on the laptop FlexView screens is as vivid as the color on my desktop FlexView display, this would be a very big positive for gaming. I can't profile the color on my 14" display when in full-screen 3D mode and I find it to be washed out (as most laptop screens are). The FlexView on my desk has gorgeous color in comparison. I don't know if it's more accurate, but it's much more vivid.

As far as the ghosting is concerned, I have only experienced it on my desktop display but it is irritating enough that I would not like to game on it regularly.

Manny, how much gaming do you plan to do and what other tasks do you plan to handle with your thinkpad? How important is battery life? I would expect that you will be happy with either the DXU or FVU but for different reasons. Perhaps you should get the DXU in (it's shipping VERY quickly right now, BTW) and try the things that might be a concern like games and then return it if you're not happy and get the FVU.

-darren

p.s. - One more random thought to make the decision even harder

-- 1400x1050 is pretty small for me on a 14" screen. I would prefer a 1280x1024 screen in the 14" form factor but that's not available. I think 1400x1050 on a 15" screen is just about perfect. I've used the 1600x1200 on a 15" screen and that's harder to read than the FVU's SXGA 14".

manny · #46 Post by **manny** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:50 pm

Darren thanks for sharing your views. I will not be doing much gaming on the TP at all. I intend to use it for general web browsing, maybe some work related tasks, like programming, trading, etc. The reason I chose the DXU over the FVU was that the difference in size did not seem too great, and the weight of the DXU is only 0.5-1lbs more than the FVU. I would like long battery life, but if it is something I have to give up for a bigger clearer screen, that is acceptable as long as the battery in teh DXU does not drain in less than 3-4 hours. How many hours can one expect with an FVU and DXU, assuming a 6-cell battery. I am just going to wait for the DXU, and if I'm not pleased, I will either send it back for an FVU or a 14.1" with lower resolution. I think overall either choice would be good for me, specially given that I was initially going to get a Sony VAIO or a Toshiba before I decided to go for a TP. I don't think those Ultrabrite glossy type screens could ever grow on me and those laptops just seemed a lot more chunkier (> 7lbs) and noisier in general.

asiafish · #47 Post by **asiafish** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:55 pm

A 9 cell would be a good way to keep a DXU running over 4 hours, doubtful on a 6 cell as it only gives my GVU (14" T42p) 4 hours.

#48 Post by **aamsel** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:48 am

I also dislike the "glossy screens".

The Flexview is not glossy, but, although it may be just a 1/2 pound more weight, it seems really "klutzy" compared to a 14.1" Thinkpad, IMHO. The measurements and weight specs alone do not tell you the true difference in the overall mass difference that I experienced.

I do favor the 14.1" models over the 15" without question but, there are some inadequacies to the 14.1" display:
1.) The viewing angles on the 14.1" SXGA+ do not compare to the Flexview viewing angles. (that's why they call it "Flexview"!!)
2.) The 14.1" SXGA+ has a band of brighter illumination at the bottom of the screen and a band of darker illumination at the top of the screen.
This (I think) is due to the backlight being at the bottom of the screen?
I don't know why this effect (or defect) can not be eliminated, but I have seen about (6) different 14.1" T series SXGA+ models, and they all look this way.

I still favor the 14.1" models.
They are the "flagship" of the T series, and the T series is the "flagship" of the Thinkpad line. I have no idea what sales numbers are for Thinkpads, but my guess would be that the vast, vast majority of them are 14.1" models. It is a size that is much more "in tune" with business needs.

Andrew
Austin, TX

manny wrote:Darren thanks for sharing your views. I will not be doing much gaming on the TP at all. I intend to use it for general web browsing, maybe some work related tasks, like programming, trading, etc. The reason I chose the DXU over the FVU was that the difference in size did not seem too great, and the weight of the DXU is only 0.5-1lbs more than the FVU. I would like long battery life, but if it is something I have to give up for a bigger clearer screen, that is acceptable as long as the battery in teh DXU does not drain in less than 3-4 hours. How many hours can one expect with an FVU and DXU, assuming a 6-cell battery. I am just going to wait for the DXU, and if I'm not pleased, I will either send it back for an FVU or a 14.1" with lower resolution. I think overall either choice would be good for me, specially given that I was initially going to get a Sony VAIO or a Toshiba before I decided to go for a TP. I don't think those Ultrabrite glossy type screens could ever grow on me and those laptops just seemed a lot more chunkier (> 7lbs) and noisier in general.

manny · #49 Post by **manny** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:47 am

I am really quite confused now.

You guys are providing me a lot of info, but making this harder for me.
I am still not sure if the 15" screen will be much better than the 14". My options at this point are:

-Stick with the DXU. About 1500 for me.
-Get the FVU, add 3 year warranty, extra RAM, live with 40gb HD for now (maybe buy a bigger HD a year later). This should cost about 1400-1450.

Now, if the Flexview screen is nothing too much more impressive than the 14", and Flexview may have potential problems (unevenly backlit, ghosting, sucking batteries), specially since it seems to be a newer technology that has not been fully tested, I would rather get the smaller form factor, lighter weight FVU that eats less battery assuming the screen is still almost as impressive as the 15". To be honest, I could not care less about looking at my screen from different angles - all I would like is a clear, crisp, bright (not ultra bright like the Sonys, Toshibas, etc.) screen cabable of showing vivid images and colors. I will not be using the machine for gaming, and may use it for watching DVDs. To compare, this is what I currently use on my desktop:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... C-d3alt1me

I am quite happy with the NEC monitor in the link above, and just want to be assured that the TP LCD on both the 14" and 15" models would be at least as good.

So given all the new info, what do you guys think?

Again, I appreciate the advice and info.[/url]

asiafish · #50 Post by **asiafish** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:11 am

If you don't care about wide viewing angle, which is the raison d'etre for the flexview, then get the 14".

#51 Post by **aamsel** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:43 am

Get the 14.1".
It is as good/better display than the one in the link.

Also.... (another factor)
If you decide to get something else a year or two from now, my personal opinion is that there would be higher resale value on a 14.1" model, just because so many more of them are sold.

Andrew
Austin, TX

manny wrote:I am really quite confused now.
You guys are providing me a lot of info, but making this harder for me.
I am still not sure if the 15" screen will be much better than the 14". My options at this point are:

-Stick with the DXU. About 1500 for me.
-Get the FVU, add 3 year warranty, extra RAM, live with 40gb HD for now (maybe buy a bigger HD a year later). This should cost about 1400-1450.

Now, if the Flexview screen is nothing too much more impressive than the 14", and Flexview may have potential problems (unevenly backlit, ghosting, sucking batteries), specially since it seems to be a newer technology that has not been fully tested, I would rather get the smaller form factor, lighter weight FVU that eats less battery assuming the screen is still almost as impressive as the 15". To be honest, I could not care less about looking at my screen from different angles - all I would like is a clear, crisp, bright (not ultra bright like the Sonys, Toshibas, etc.) screen cabable of showing vivid images and colors. I will not be using the machine for gaming, and may use it for watching DVDs. To compare, this is what I currently use on my desktop:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... C-d3alt1me

I am quite happy with the NEC monitor in the link above, and just want to be assured that the TP LCD on both the 14" and 15" models would be at least as good.

So given all the new info, what do you guys think?

Again, I appreciate the advice and info.[/url]

darrenf · #52 Post by **darrenf** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:32 am

More food for thought:

* Laptop screens are almost never as bright as desktop screens because of the backlighting power requirements. Desktop screens can take advantage of near limitless AC power to drive very bright flourescent tubes. Laptops have to choose a point of compromise between battery drain and brightness. I haven't used the monitor that you are using as a reference point so I can't offer an opinion on how the TP will compare, I just don't want you to be disappointed with the brightness of a laptop screen because you are comparing it to a desktop screen.

* The 15" is probably not appreciated by many posting here (myself included) because of the LARGE form factor. If that really doesn't bother you, then you might appreciate the improved construction of the 15" TPs. The keyboard surround is a simgle piece which probably improves the structure of the base and the lid may just be bullet proof as thick as it is. On the models I've seen the keyboard shows no flex out of the box. This is a fixable condition on the 14" if you notice any flex, but I think the 15" uses a keyboard with 5 anchors instead of 4 to reduce/eliminate flex.

* Battery life: My FVU with a new 9-cell, doing simple web browsing that requires very little CPU, draws 9.8W at the lowest screen brightness and 13.5W at the highest screen brightness setting. This is with the Intel wireless on and Bluetooth off. At low screen brightness that usage will get you just over 8 hours. At the high screen brightness you will get just over 5.5 hours. Note that these are very much best case numbers with the CPU at 600MHz (adaptive setting) and 38 degrees C. This is basically the life you will get if you are just sitting and reading (or, in my case, writing) sans any flash animations or heavy hard disk access. Also, the ThinkLight draws so little power to be negligible, so run that all you want.

-darren

manny · #53 Post by **manny** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:47 am

Another question:

How much will it cost me to upgrade my HD to 60/80/100gb on my own?
Also, how much will the RAM upgrade cost me?

tgtoss · #54 Post by **tgtoss** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:35 pm

Do it , do it now ..

Leon · #55 Post by **Leon** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:39 pm

Welcome to our Forum!

I like your attitude.......

manny · #56 Post by **manny** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:45 pm

Do what?

tgtoss wrote:Do it , do it now ..

zelchenko · #57 Post by **zelchenko** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:58 pm

asiafish wrote:T42p (GVU) 1.8GHz, 1024MB, 60GB 72K, Combo
Apple PowerBook G4 12", 1.5GHz, SuperDrive

Wow! Where can I get a 72,000 rpm (or 73,728, depending on how you count) hard drive?

asiafish · #58 Post by **asiafish** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:09 pm

You can get it from the Department of Defense, for 90 million dollars.

manny · #59 Post by **manny** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:46 pm

I am now contemplating a 3rd option (aghhh!)

Buy the 2686E7U openbay with following specs:

2686E7U EXP T43 FINGERPRINT PENT 750
IBM ThinkPad T43 2686 - Pentium M 750 1.86 GHz - 14.1" TFT
Built-in Devices Wireless LAN antenna, fingerprint reader, ThinkLight
Processor Intel Pentium M 750 1.86 GHz
Cache Memory 2 MB - L2 cache
RAM 0 MB (installed) / 2 GB (max) - DDR II SDRAM - PC2-4200 -533MHz
Display 14.1" TFT active matrix SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) - 24-bit (16.7 million colors)
Graphics Controller ATI MOBILITY RADEON X300 - 64 MB
Audio Output Sound card
Telecom Fax / modem - CDC - 56 Kbps
Networking Network adapter - Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet
Input Device Keyboard, TrackPoint, UltraNav
Power AC 110/230 V ( 50/60 Hz )
Battery Lithium ion
Manufacturer Warranty 1 year warranty

I could then add:

30L9192 3YR DEPOT REPAIR
73P2805 INTEL PRO WIRELES 2200 B/G
73P2891 MICROSOFT WINDOWS XP PRO
73P3289 CTO IBM 24X CDRW/DVDROM
73P3364 60GB 5400 RPM HARD DRIVE
73P3849 CTO 512MB PC2-4200 CL4 NP

This would be in the same price range, except I would have a slower drive, and I would have the X300 graphics (dont know how this compares to ATI 9600).
Any other similar suggestions?
I ambasically looking for everything the DXU has except with a 14.1" screen.

asiafish · #60 Post by **asiafish** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:16 pm

Why not spend a bit more and get the T42 M3U which has the 80GB
drive, fingerprint reader and the SXGA+ 14".

Pro's and Cons of Buying a T42

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