Use R&R set from one T60 to restore another T60?

[Muse]

I just acquired a T60 T2400 1.8GHz Core Duo ATI x1300 system with no HD. I had a 250GB HD from a dead system, and I put it in the T60 and wiped the HD. I partitioned the HD into 100GB and 135GB. I have a Rescue and Recovery set of 7 CDs I made about 4 months after getting my first T60 direct from Lenovo, made the set mid-March 2007. That system (I'm typing on it now) is a Core 2 Duo T5500 1.67GHz with a 60GB HD and integrated Intel GMA950 graphics. Nothing has changed on the machine except that I've upgraded the 1.5GB DDR2 to 3GB. I've never used the R&R set before, never needed to, but now I'd like to use it to install XP Pro on the just acquired T60, which has its CoA intact and legible on the bottom. Shouldn't this R&R set work on the "new" T60? I did very little with my first T60 in the 4 months I had it before making the R&R set in March of 2007, but I suppose the set was a backup, not a factory default set. Don't remember. All I know is that I labeled them thusly:

Disc 1: T60 Rescue & Recovery Startup disk
Disc 2: T60 "Product Recovery Disc 1" 3-13-07
Disc 3: T60 Recovery 2
Disc 4: T60 Recovery 3
Disc 5: T60 Recovery 4
Disc 6: T60 Recovery 5
Disc 7: T60 Recovery 6

Well, the R&R CD disk set I made on my T60 in March 2007 doesn't seem to be working on the T60 I just acquired. R&R comes up when I put in the startup CD (the first of the 7 CDs), I chose to restore the backup, don't worry about anything done since, just wipe the HD and restore what's on the disks (Tonight, I also tried restoring to "factory default" condition, and I get the same behavior, i.e. after the startup disk installs, I cannot install any other disks.). The HD in there was in an Acer, so there's no sense in trying to keep anything on it.

R&R (says Rescue and Recovery 3) says to remove the disk, remove power from the machine, restart it and insert the last disk of the set, the disk labeled "Final C." However, as you see above, there is no disc labeled "Final C." I don't believe R&R instructed me to label one Final C, or if it did (i.e. the last disk), I obviously labled it T60 Recovery 6. I'm told that R&R CD recovery disks total 7 on a T60, so I'm obviously not missing any disks. I checked date/times on the 7 disks and they do get progressivly later disk to disk, so I certainly did not mislabel any of the disks. When I insert the last disk (or the 2nd or the 1st) it doesn't appear to see anything. The Next button is greyed out, nothing shows up in the Name/Date table, it's stuck.

I suppose I can maybe skip XP on the machine and just install Windows 7 32 bit. I have the upgrade disk from the Acer that died. I never installed it on the Acer. However, I don't know if the Windows 7 upgrade disk for the Acer will install on the T60. The Acer was Vista Home Premium, although I don't know if that makes any difference. I think I can do a clean install with the Windows 7 32bit disk, but don't know if it will work on a T60. I think I might very well prefer to run XP Pro on the machine rather than Windows 7 32bit, I believe I'll have less issues to deal with given the software I run. AFAIK, there's not much advantage in Windows 7 for me.

Is there something wrong with my R&R disks? Or will they only work on my first T60, not on the "new" one? Should I get and use a regular XP Pro disk to install the OS and then manually get all the updates and downloads, or is there some way I can take advantage of my R&R disks. Any help appreciated!

[91011]

I think your problem is that you're really not trying "to restore the backup". You want to select the option that says something like "Restore Factory Install". I think it's the bottom selection. IIRC the Final C disc asked for is part of a backup of the installed C drive but your seven discs are Factory Recovery discs. Sorry I can't be clearer, I stopped using R&R discs years ago.

Your Acer Win 7 disc would install, although an upgrade disc has to used differently than a full install disc. But the install would not activate because the T60 does not have an Acer SLIC 2.1 marker in the BIOS (or a Lenovo SLIC either).

John

[Muse]

I tried the Restore to Factory Defaults (or something like that) tonight but that failed as well (and in the same way, IIRC).

Too bad Win7 won't activate. Are you sure? I was going to try that next as much as anything to find out if it would work.

Looks like maybe my only option is to install from an XP retail disk, maybe modifying the installation first using nlite to accept it as an OEM installation. Elsewhere, I've been instructed how to go about doing this. Well, except for using nlite, but I've seen that stuff elsewhere and it shouldn't be too hard to come by. Or else maybe I can get a working set of R&R disks.

I figure there should be nothing wrong with my disks, maybe I'm just not using them right, ergo this thread.

[dr_st]

Should I get and use a regular XP Pro disk to install the OS and then manually get all the updates and downloads

This is what I've been doing both on my T42 and my T60. It allows me to install only the drivers/applications I want and need, and does not force a specific partitioning of the drive as the recovery disks do.

[RealBlackStuff]

Don't you people ever read the instructions or other posts?
The hard disk needs to be WIPED before you can use a Recovery set!
Get DBAN or Active@Killdisk and let it do it's job, then use R&R.

[dr_st]

No it doesn't - the recovery set has the capability to wipe the disk itself. In fact it will forcefully wipe it (after you agree of course), repartition it and install.

[Harryc]

My experience has been that you are both correct. There are times when I have to wipe a hard drive completely prior to installing R&R discs, and there are times when it just works. For example I found that if the hard drive previously contained GRUB/Linux then the R&R discs will load but the machine won't boot because GRUB has left it's mark on the MBR, and R&R does not over-write or correct that with the right new MBR. IMHO if the R&R discs don't seem to be loading correctly a HD wipe is not going to hurt anything and is worth a try.

[Muse]

Don't you people ever read the instructions or other posts?
The hard disk needs to be WIPED before you can use a Recovery set!
Get DBAN or Active@Killdisk and let it do it's job, then use R&R.

Thank you, and I'll not take offense at your admonition. However, I sometimes (often) do RTFM and similar. But where are the "instructions" for using R&R? I don't see them (well, when run from the CD's, but it didn't tell me to wipe the drive). I poke in and out of what I see in this my first T60 and don't see instructions. I'm having a devil of a time just finding out even the most rudimentary information on the R&R capabilities of this machine. For instance, I'm curious to know if I have a hidden recovery partition. I go into R&R and a backup immediately starts. Not wanting to back up this system at this time, I click Cancel and nothing happens. It sits there at 0% and I have to go into Task Manager and kill R&R. This happened twice this morning.

Where does it tell me I have to wipe my HD before using a recovery set? Well, one time it failed was when the drive was one big hunk of unallocated space. Isn't that the same? OK, I will run DBAN (like I said, I have a DBAN CD, which I made around a year ago to blank a friend's HD) against this 250GB and try the 7 CD recovery set again and see if I finally have success. I don't quit easy, well, alot of the time. Again, thanks RealBlackStuff.

[dr_st]

For example I found that if the hard drive previously contained GRUB/Linux then the R&R discs will load but the machine won't boot because GRUB has left it's mark on the MBR, and R&R does not over-write or correct that with the right new MBR.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. I wonder whether a FIXMBR from a Windows installation disk's recovery console can do the trick in the case you described. Of course doing a full wipe is just as good, since the installation will do it anyways.

[Muse]

No it doesn't - the recovery set has the capability to wipe the disk itself. In fact it will forcefully wipe it (after you agree of course), repartition it and install.

Ah, well, I've tried at least 1/2 dozen times, and yes I got the impression that R&R will do the wiping. I let it do it several times. Repartitioning, I didn't see, however the HD had only one partition on it when the set was made, so I figured I should try it that way at least once. I prefer two partitions on this 250GB drive, but it failed either way.

[Muse]

IMHO if the R&R discs don't seem to be loading correctly a HD wipe is not going to hurt anything and is worth a try.

I'm going to try that today, run DBAN, then insert the startup disk of the 7 CD R&R set and see if I can get a 2nd disk to load, and etc....

Edit 20 minutes later: DBAN is running now in autonuke mode. Typically the "remaining" time is fickle, but it's not jumping between 2 and 16 hours, it's staying around 5 hours and 15-20 minutes. First I tried running in another DBAN mode and it errored saying the error was usually caused by Bad Sectors. I restarted it and decided after scanning the info and decided to run in autonuke mode, which it recommends for most users and says is particularly safe. So far so good this time... AFAIK (other than that possibly spurious message) there's nothing wrong with the HD.

Edit 50 minutes later: My question then is which option should I choose in R&R when I try to load XP on the wiped disk in the "new" machine? Restore to factory defaults or backup from recovery set, saving no data? I think both will be offered to me. Like I say, the 7 CD set was made about 4 months after getting the brand new T60. I'd done little with it but I suppose it could not have been in the original condition. Is it possible that the set even so makes restore to factory defaults possible? Also, is it possible that a hidden partition remains on my 4 year old T60 with restore capabilities? There's only one backup available when I look for them in R&R from Windows XP, and it's dated April 2009, evidently one that was created automatically. I erased a few backups in there to free up HD space. There's only about 10-12GB free on the 60GB drive of my 4 year old T60.

[91011]

Muse, here is what happened the first time - I re-created your problem with these steps:
1. Boot with Startup Disc
2. Select ‘Restore your system’
3. Step 1: Select first option ‘Restore my entire hard drive…from a backup’.
4. Step 2: Select CD/DVD
5. Step 3: Do not save any data
6. Predesktop installer runs
7. “Please remove the CD. Power off to continue restore process”.
( select: ignore winpe error if it appears)
8. After the re-boot the “insert Final C” message appears which refers to doing a restore from a backup.
9. At this point there in no option available to do a Factory Restore.

R&R is now expecting to do a Restore from Backup and the HDD must be erased and R&R re-installed to start a Full Factory recovery.
------------
To fix:
1. Start over – which you’re doing now by erasing the disc.
2. Boot with your R&R Start-up disc. It loads the main menu but doesn’t create the full R&R partition.
3. In the left column select ‘Restore your system’.
4. On the next page select the bottom option – Restore to factory without saving.
5. R&R will now begin creating the recovery partition.
6. When finished, you’re asked to remove the disc & reboot.
7. After rebooting it should ask if you have a Supplemental Disc – select NO – and insert Disc 1 of your R&R when asked.
8. Wait and wait some more.

John

[AMATX]

Uhmmm, why not just clone one drive to another?

* Backup good drive.

* Restore that backup to the new drive.

* Done...no messing w/R&R

When done, maybe change the network name of the new 'puter, so you don't have duplicate names if running on the same network.

[Muse]

To fix:
1. Start over – which you’re doing now by erasing the disc.
2. Boot with your R&R Start-up disc. It loads the main menu but doesn’t create the full R&R partition.
3. In the left column select ‘Restore your system’.
4. On the next page select the bottom option – Restore to factory without saving.
5. R&R will now begin creating the recovery partition.
6. When finished, you’re asked to remove the disc & reboot.
7. After rebooting it should ask if you have a Supplemental Disc – select NO – and insert Disc 1 of your R&R when asked.
8. Wait and wait some more.

John

I'll try this. DBAN is now ~54% through, another estimated 3 hours to go. Not sure, I think I may have already tried this sequence, possibly not exactly. Will try. One thing, there's a screen that comes up in R&R, it's one you can keep from coming up a second time by checking the checkbox saying something like "Do not show again." I've not checked that yet. Should I do so? Presumably that screen showing up (it's informational, for the most part IIRC) should not interfere with the outcome, but I'm wondering. I sure haven't seen anything yet about a "Supplemental Disc." I hope I will when I try this today!

[Muse]

Uhmmm, why not just clone one drive to another?

* Backup good drive.

* Restore that backup to the new drive.

* Done...no messing w/R&R

When done, maybe change the network name of the new 'puter, so you don't have duplicate names if running on the same network.

OK, could you please please elaborate somewhat? How do I back up that good drive, and I presume you're talking about the 60GB drive on my other T60, the one that's been running XP Pro since December 2006. It runs OK, basically. The drive only has about ~48GB free (Edit: Oops! 48GB used, ~12GB free!), IIRC, a good chunk of it being inessential data. The drive is one big partition, just as it came from Lenovo. Would I do the backup to media? I do have a DVD-RW/CDRW drive I can slip in any of the machines, so I could write to DVD-Rs, DVD+Rs. Use what? R&R to do it, Ghost? I have bootable Ghost CDs (from Norton Systemworks 2001 and 2003), ones that will write to FAT32 and ones that will write to NTFS. I have been thinking of investing in a 2nd HD caddy for Thinkpads as a handy device to have. They are available on eBay for around $12. Several times the last week or two I've thought it might be very handy to have one of those. I could partition or format a drive in it on any of my Thinkpads, I figure I could also Ghost a partition or HD right to a drive in the 2nd HD caddy. Comments appreciated!

Edit: Oops, I just realized I can't run an optical drive and a 2nd HD in the Thinkpads at the same time, well unless maybe I get a USB DVD drive. The only backups, cloning, etc. I've done with my Thinkpad (now since this month, plural) has been with R&R, the 7 CD recover set made in March 2007 and the occasional automatic backups that were done on my T60, of which one remains from April 2009. I don't know what other people have done or what is possible.

[91011]

I think I may have already tried this sequence

Perhaps, but try it with a clean install of the R&R partition.

it's one you can keep from coming up a second time

not important, either way

haven't seen anything yet about a "Supplemental Disc."

that will only show up if you have begun the Factory Recovery process

[Muse]

Thanks. I'm going to try the Factory Recovery process exactly as you describe. Maybe the time I tried that it was to the first of two partitions, I can't remember now. DBAN has a couple more hours to run before I can try it.

I presume that once I've successfully restored I can use HD partitioning software to create a 2nd partition, eh?

[91011]

I presume that once I've successfully restored I can use HD partitioning software to create a 2nd partition

Don't see why not.

In all of your attempts, if you never had any option other than the "Insert Final C disc" option, then you tried to do a Restore a Backup the first time which blocked you from ever being able to do a Factory Recovery with that R&R install. That's why you're erasing & re-installing the R&R partition.

[RealBlackStuff]

Oops, forgot to tell you, that you can stop DBAN or Active@Killdisk, after it has done ca 5%.
That's all it needs, wipe the bootsector, partition table and the beginning of the disk.

You're good to go for the "next round", whichever option you choose.

[Muse]

To fix:
1. Start over – which you’re doing now by erasing the disc.
2. Boot with your R&R Start-up disc. It loads the main menu but doesn’t create the full R&R partition.
3. In the left column select ‘Restore your system’.
4. On the next page select the bottom option – Restore to factory without saving.
5. R&R will now begin creating the recovery partition.
6. When finished, you’re asked to remove the disc & reboot.
7. After rebooting it should ask if you have a Supplemental Disc – select NO – and insert Disc 1 of your R&R when asked.
8. Wait and wait some more.

John

OMG, it's working.

RealBlackStuff: Well, I only saw your >5% not necessary message after DBAN had wiped the drive 100%.

Looks like I'm getting the Factory Restore, wonder if it will be precisely what my T60 was in November 2006 (when I received the machine from Lenovo) or what it was March 13, 2007 when I made the 7 CD set. Not a big deal either way, I hadn't done much with the system. Next, I guess, I run System Update 3.x and Windows Updates. Which first?

Thanks John, RealBlackStuff, Harryc, everybody who helped!

Edit way later: Man, it took a long time for the restore to finish, many reboots, tons of configurations, all totally automatic. Must have been well over an hour I watched this going on. Finally, the system starts in interactive mode. Clearly, this really is the factory default condition!

[91011]

It will be as it came from the factory. If you had made backup discs in Mar 2007 and restored from those it would be as from that day.

I always do Sys Update first then Win Update - no good reason.

Glad you got it working - Say hi to the Caffe Mediterraneum for me.

[Muse]

It will be as it came from the factory. If you had made backup discs in Mar 2007 and restored from those it would be as from that day.

I always do Sys Update first then Win Update - no good reason.

Glad you got it working - Say hi to the Caffe Mediterraneum for me.

Have only been in there once in last 20 years or so, it was 2 years ago with a friend. I did hit the Cafe Intermezzo (across Telegraph) a month or two ago for a humongous salad, what a deal! It's got me making similar (but smaller) salads regularly. Healthy delicious eats.

[Muse]

The fingerprint gathering applet failed. Said hardware failure several times, once a software error. I suppose when I get in there to change the DDR2 and clean the machine and likely apply Arctic Silver 5 to the CPU and GPU, I can see if the FPR is attached, the likely cause of the problem, agreed?

I tried running System Update several times and it appears to be connecting to the Package Index Server, (~33% each time!) and a message pops up that "the Package Index Server is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later." This has happened 1/2 dozen times. The machine right next to it, my other T60, had no evident trouble running System Update. Gotta think something's amiss. It's running version 2 of System Update, whereas my other T60 is running version 3. Maybe I should download version 3 and install it from a USB stick?

Edit: I downloaded it to a USB stick but rebooted before installing, tried running SU again and this time got a message that System Update was upgrading itself, and that's going on now. If I still have problems I'll install from the 3.14 version I have on the stick.