any news on a competitor to the new macbook air?

[oshelef]

Hi All,

With the recent update of the Macbook air, is there any news on an update to the x300/x301 line? It had seemed like it was a dead end, and the direction was to the t400s/t410s, etc..., but I'm wondering if Lenovo is going to respond to apple's reinvestment in the space?

Personally: I'm reasonably happy user of the x300. My chief complaint is the slow cpu. When I got it, the chief downside of the macbook air was the lower res screen, and that has been remedied. Looking forward, I'm not sure the larger size of the t410s will make it appealing.

Any news? And the U260 doesn't seem like a good alternative.

[Harryc]

Moved to the X30X forum

[sanjuro]

no, lenovo like other pc manufacturers are being shellacked by apple on smartphone (iphone), slate (ipad), and ultralight notebook (macbook air). it's too late for them to do anything before the holidays.

not sure that lenovo will do anything until sandy bridge updates are released during/after the ces during january 2011.

i'm pretty sure that it's within capability of thinkpad designer to come out with a worthy successor to x301 that can be a decent competitor to the new macbook air. will it be cheap enough to manufacture and also sell in enough quantity? probably not.

[ThinkRob]

Why would Lenovo need to make a competitor to the MBA? They've had a superior machine on the market since late 2008!

The current 13-inch MBA has a 1440x900 display, a 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, a 128/256 GB SSD, and up to 7 hours on a non-removable battery.

The X200s -- released two years prior -- has a 1440x900 display, a 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, any SSD you'd like (user-upgradeable), and up to 12 hours on a removable battery.

The main thing the X200s lacked was an aggressive marketing campaign to convince users it was revolutionary.

The MacBook Air certainly *looks* lighter and sleeker, but then again Lenovo isn't really known for competing on the basis of shininess.

[pianowizard]

The main thing the X200s lacked was an aggressive marketing campaign to convince users it was revolutionary.

I just came across this CNET article, which says that in a very recent survey, 36% of all people planning to buy a laptop said they were going to buy an Apple laptop. While Apple's aggressive marketing contributes to the huge success of their products, I think another important factor is that there are just too many PC laptops to choose from. For the average computer user, it's a daunting task picking one out of hundreds of PC laptops to buy, but there are only six different models of Apple laptops to choose from.

At the rate Apple products are gaining market share, I wonder if the day will come when we'll be forced to give up PCs and switch to Apples, just like many Apple users were forced to migrate to PCs when Apple seemed to be going extinct back in the 1990s.

[oshelef]

Why would Lenovo need to make a competitor to the MBA? They've had a superior machine on the market since late 2008!

The current 13-inch MBA has a 1440x900 display, a 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, a 128/256 GB SSD, and up to 7 hours on a non-removable battery.

The X200s -- released two years prior -- has a 1440x900 display, a 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, any SSD you'd like (user-upgradeable), and up to 12 hours on a removable battery.

The main thing the X200s lacked was an aggressive marketing campaign to convince users it was revolutionary.

The MacBook Air certainly *looks* lighter and sleeker, but then again Lenovo isn't really known for competing on the basis of shininess.

Perhaps, although personally, I find the 12.1" screen too small for it to be primary computer. What I like about the MBA and the x300/x301 is the screen in a very portable package. But maybe I should take a closer look at the x201s.

[sanjuro]

x200s is a fine computer but it sure is ugly compared to macbook air or any of the macbooks.

average consumer has little understanding of the value of x20xs series. so a large majority will choose macbook air over x20xs series.

x300/x301 was considered a competitor to the first gen macbook air. the 13" ultralight segment dried out as apple took its time redesigning macbook air and lenovo let x301 languish then terminated the series.

now apple owns the segment. macbook air is even more of a boutique computer, never intended to be a big source of profit for apple. may be lenovo will see the light and bring the x3xx series back.

since apple often sets the trend in notebook designs, you can see where apple and other pc manufacturers are headed in future mainstream notebooks: flash drive sans 1.8" or 2.5" enclosures, no more hd, no dvd, no externally swappable battery, etc. all these points to thinner and lighter mainstream notebooks.

[ThinkRob]

x200s is a fine computer but it sure is ugly compared to macbook air or any of the macbooks.

average consumer has little understanding of the value of x20xs series. so a large majority will choose macbook air over x20xs series.

I disagree with the first statement. I think the X200(s) is actually quite attractive and professional. I also like the MacBook design, but for completely different reasons. The MacBook looks like something that would look great on a coffee table in a modern living room. The ThinkPad looks like something that you'd work on in a modern office. They're designed with different criteria and different goals, and I think both succeed.

As far as the average consumer... well... if the past 20+ years of computing are any indication, the average consumer is pretty poorly-equipped to judge on the basis of technical merit.

[domi]

x300/x301 was considered a competitor to the first gen macbook air. the 13" ultralight segment dried out as apple took its time redesigning macbook air and lenovo let x301 languish then terminated the series.

It is of course unfortunate Lenovo decided to discontinue the X301, but that doesn't mean the X301 (which is still available new, complete with 3 year warranty and everything) isn't a worthy alternative to the new MacBook Air: it has the same CPU, the same display size and resolution (but is matte, which many people will appreciate), its RAM can be increased to 8 GB (it maxes out at 4 GB on the MBA), it has one more USB port, a user-replaceable battery (in fact, two), a user-replaceable hard drive, a better keyboard (IMO, although the keyboard on the MBA isn't bad). I purchased a 13" MacBook Air three weeks ago, and ordered an X301 yesterday, I will be able to enjoy the best of both worlds

[oshelef]

it has the same CPU

Really? I haven't seen a x301 with either a 1.86 or a 2.13 ghz cpu.

[domi]

Really? I haven't seen a x301 with either a 1.86 or a 2.13 ghz cpu.

OK, I should have written: "same generation CPU", ie. Core 2 Duo. I think for most people the differences in GHz make little difference in real life. At least it's the case for me. For instance, I've ran my X60s at 1.0 GHz all the time, although its nominal speed is 1.6 GHz. People usually don't buy ultraportables like the X301 or the MacBook Air for gaming, video editing or the like.

[oshelef]

OK, I should have written: "same generation CPU", ie. Core 2 Duo. I think for most people the differences in GHz make little difference in real life. At least it's the case for me. For instance, I've ran my X60s at 1.0 GHz all the time, although its nominal speed is 1.6 GHz. People usually don't buy ultraportables like the X301 or the MacBook Air for gaming, video editing or the like.

Perhaps. I have an x300 myself, but the main limitation I have is the CPU speed. For general purpose internet and email it's fine. And sure, it limits the quality of things like full-screen video (watching). That's the trade-off I knew. But the practical limit is that I actually regularly use the full (single threaded) cpu in Word. (equation editing and rendering is apparently very cpu intensive or not well optimized.) And that's a 'business case' for a faster cpu. The point is, I want an ultra portable that is my main computer.

But I won't hold out much hope that Lenovo comes through with what I'd want.

[domi]

The point is, I want an ultra portable that is my main computer. But I won't hold out much hope that Lenovo comes through with what I'd want.

I see your point: you would want the power of the T410s with the size/weight of the X301 That would have been an X302, but we're not going to see that. The T410s was too big/heavy for me, so I settled for the X301. Switching from an X60s, I will win on all counts, except storage capacity.

[penartur]

Why would Lenovo need to make a competitor to the MBA? They've had a superior machine on the market since late 2008!

The current 13-inch MBA has a 1440x900 display, a 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, a 128/256 GB SSD, and up to 7 hours on a non-removable battery.

The X200s -- released two years prior -- has a 1440x900 display, a 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, any SSD you'd like (user-upgradeable), and up to 12 hours on a removable battery.

Do you really don't see the difference between 12" and 13"?
Why then you think did lenovo released X30x?
Also, new MBA comes with Geforce 320M, which is afaik far superior in terms of performance compared to integrated intel GPUs.

[oshelef]

I see your point: you would want the power of the T410s with the size/weight of the X301

Pretty much. Although, honestly, I'm not in need of an optical drive (although I'm happy to have the slot for an extra battery). And, I'd be fine with a MBA type integrated SSD to save space/weight/price. (I occasionally notice space constraints on my 64gb ssd on the x300, but it seems that 256, or even 128 would tide me over for quite a while.)

Oh, and although there isn't a "business case" for them, I wouldn't mind louder speakers than the x300. I have to play equalizer tricks to get the volume on podcasts loud enough to be heard over the sink when I'm doing dishes

But, yes, form factor is important to me. I enjoy that it is small enough/light enough that I carry it with me without regard to whether I'll need it. And, when I do need it, it has everything I need, since it is my main computer.

[sanjuro]

It is of course unfortunate Lenovo decided to discontinue the X301, but that doesn't mean the X301 (which is still available new, complete with 3 year warranty and everything) isn't a worthy alternative to the new MacBook Air: it has the same CPU, the same display size and resolution (but is matte, which many people will appreciate), its RAM can be increased to 8 GB (it maxes out at 4 GB on the MBA), it has one more USB port, a user-replaceable battery (in fact, two), a user-replaceable hard drive, a better keyboard (IMO, although the keyboard on the MBA isn't bad). I purchased a 13" MacBook Air three weeks ago, and ordered an X301 yesterday, I will be able to enjoy the best of both worlds

When your X301 arrives, give us a comparison of your experience with X301 and MBA.

I saw the new MBA recently. It looked thinner than the X300 I have, though about the same weight. If the new MBA had an i5 or i7 CPU, I would have gotten one myself.