ThinkPad T400 - renewing the thermal grease

[Czechnology]

hey everyone!

I've always had issues with my T400 running way too hot (especially under Vista, got a bit better with W7).

Recently it started to get even worse, so I decided to reapply the thermal grease, it got better at first but then got worse again - and I don't think it's gonna get any better in the "burn-in" phase. Maybe I've just didn't apply it right or put too much of it there.

So I'm gonna buy me a better/more expensive AS5 and try again and better. Do the experts here have some advices to give me, please?
I have a version with switchable graphics.

(Please don't throw any you'll ruin your warranty at me, it's gone already. And I know getting inside of the laptop is always a risk. I'd rather like some constructive advices, thanks!)

(ps, I read this post and this link)

Thanks in advance!

[Harryc]

What's your CPU idle temperature? I am typing this on an R400 with a T9400 CPU in it and the current idle temperature is 33*C (Arctic Silver 5 applied by me) and Power Manager CPU performance set to Adaptive.

[Czechnology]

Around 64, before it was 50-60... way too high
(and that it with very constrained power mode and highest fan rpm)

[Colonel O'Neill]

T400 with P8700 typing this at 40C. I replaced stock with MX-2, a smidge lower than stock.

Have you tried undervolting with RMClock?

[Czechnology]

O'Neill, no I didn't try undervolting, don't really want to
Anyway, I'm sure I've gotta reapply the paste anyway since it's obvious it got worse after my "corrections". The old grease was in a pretty bad shape but obviously I didn't do a very good job neither.

Harryc, any advices on the grease renewal? Or specifically with AS5?

[Colonel O'Neill]

It took me a few tries to get it right. I finally ended up over doing it a smidge (MX-2 is non-conductive) and that brought temps down.

Undervolting is simple, albeit time-consuming with all of the Prime95 testing, so I don't see the downsides to undervolting.

[Harryc]

AS5 application on a Core 2 Duo CPU -
http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth ... e_v1.1.pdf

[Czechnology]

Harryc, interesting method, I've mostly read about spreading the grease evenly over the whole surface with a credit card or similar.


Is the AS5 actually the best one for my application, or are the MX-2, MX-3 or MX-4 (or others) better variants to use in the TP?

[Harryc]

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?o ... itstart=13

[Czechnology]

Well, I've taken it apart today, removed the "old" grease, cleaned it well with a 96% ethanol then followed the manual precisely and applied the AS5... Seemed better at first but now the CPU's running at over 70 °C with fan on max (about 5.7kRPM) and Power Source Optimized power plan, while doing some basic programming - Eclipse, Browser with a few tabs, music widget...
I really don't know what's wrong Even during the burn-in period, I don't think it should be running this hot.....

[richk]

Sometimes, a cable can get in the way and make it so you cannot get the heatsink correctly seated

[Colonel O'Neill]

Which CPU do you have?

EDIT: My bad, I didn't notice your signature. Why is it that you don't want to undervolt?

EDIT2: My P8700 maxes out at 59C/55C after running five iterations of IntelBurnTest at Standard. Fan at 3500RPM.

[Czechnology]

I'm trying undervolting now but it's not much change i gotta say
(makes my computer very lazy though)

[Colonel O'Neill]

Undervolting shouldn't affect performance at all...

Do note that it's underVOLTing and not underCLOCKing.

[Czechnology]

In that case I propably don't know how to use the RMclock app right

Strange is, that with 0RPM the temp goes "only" to about 80 °C whereas with max RPM it only falls by about 10 °C...
I really have no more ideas what could have I done wrong

[Colonel O'Neill]

Is your heatsink making proper contact with your CPU? Did you clean the CPU side with rubbing alcohol as well? The working area where you open up your laptop fairly dusty?

[Czechnology]

Is your heatsink making proper contact with your CPU? Did you clean the CPU side with rubbing alcohol as well? The working area where you open up your laptop fairly dusty?

I think it does.
I've cleaned both sides well.
What do you mean? Yeah, inside of my laptop is fairly dusty after more than two years of operation but the surface of the chips was clean, except for the old grease.

[Czechnology]

So, after the first (not so succesful) try, today I've tried again.

So far, running HyperPi at 3k fan RPM under 60, which is better than I could achieve on idle before. But that might be just the start, previously it also started out good and turned worse with time.

Problems - my GPU temp is not showing up anymore in TPFan: it was there for some time after start and then it disappeared. I hope I didn't damage anything..?
Also, my Fan is not producing a strange sound - not very loud but a high-frequency-like cliking sound. And max. RPM decreased from around 4.5k. How could that have happened? Can I fix it? The sound is about to give me headaches

Or should I rather get a new fan+heatsink? I had the typical problem with the heatsink over GPU and that thermal pad that I'm unable to replace (I've never seen it sold anywhere). If so, where could I get the fan+heatsink from (with shipping to EU).

Thanks!

[Colonel O'Neill]

GPU temperatures don't appear if you use the integrated graphics chipset.

I think my fan's doing the same, but barely noticeable. My maximum RPM at 64 is now 4300RPM too instead of I believe near 4800 before.

I think at this point, you're fine; T CPU's are hotter than P CPU's, so full load at 60 is good.

[Czechnology]

GPU temperatures don't appear if you use the integrated graphics chipset.

It did before Maybe the heat got to the discrete graphics chip and heated up the thermometer there? Strange...

I think my fan's doing the same, but barely noticeable. My maximum RPM at 64 is now 4300RPM too instead of I believe near 4800 before.

It was very noticeable but it seems to have gone more quiet. However RPM still only at 4.5 while previously it went up to 5.7 or so...

I think at this point, you're fine; T CPU's are hotter than P CPU's, so full load at 60 is good.

What is a P CPU?
Now I'm running at 46 °C on idle with 3k RPM. Still hotter that I'd like but considerably better than before.


I'd like to get a T420 someday but if everything works fine, my T400 should be ok for at least a year or so.

[Colonel O'Neill]

It's never appeared for me on the integrated chipset. It shows itself immediately after booting, but disappears as the drivers and programs initialize. Same with standby.

I don't think I've ever seem mine go up to 5.7k. The X61 does though.

A P CPU is of the form Pnnnn, such as P8700.

EDIT: I just realized... If you install the switchable driver improperly, then the GPU indicator will show up while on integrated because the ATI card is not turned off and is essentially infinite looping. This will produce very high temperatures as well as very short battery life.

[Czechnology]

If you install the switchable driver improperly, then the GPU indicator will show up while on integrated because the ATI card is not turned off and is essentially infinite looping. This will produce very high temperatures as well as very short battery life.

How can I check for this? Switching between the graphics works fine for me and the GPU temp is not being shown (now).

[Colonel O'Neill]

The symptoms are that the GPU would go above 70C with no apparent usage. It also heats up the CPU significantly. Which could possibly explain your original issue. Battery life would've been around 30 minutes on a charge or something ridiculous like that.

GPU temp has never shown for me on integrated except for when the discrete card is improperly activated due to improperly installed drivers. IIRC, it would indeed appear to switch properly and provide extra performance on the discrete card. Ironically, it would run cooler on the discrete card than on integrated if this was the case.

Are you saying it doesn't show up on discrete either?

[Czechnology]

Well, the GPU would show and go up to 50 or 60 even when on integrated graphics. But the CPU too.

Currently, the GPU temp is shown only if on discrete graphics and runs at about 55.

Battery life is not what it used to be two years ago but mostly still around 2 hours.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Yeah... that didn't seem normal at all.

Under full CPU and GPU load, while overclocked, my CPU and GPU hit 70 to 72.

I'm still pulling three hours out of my 6-cell with 7% wear.

[hunterman223]

Noticed you haven't replied back. If you need help undervolting, an excellent guide is here. I have the same CPU and managed to achieve an 18 degrees-Celsius decrease in temperature, which is pretty good considering there is no loss in performance.

As you have a T9400, you will need to edit the registry to enable half-multipliers, otherwise you will end up underclocked a few-100mhz. It's not hard at all, here's how.

1.) Close RMClock
2.) Run command "regedit.exe"
3.) Navigate to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\RightMark\RMClock
4.) Open "PStatesData" key.
5.) On the left side of the numbers, 3rd row down it should read "09". Change this to "0A" On the right side of the numbers, there should be a value reading "08". Change this to "09" (See screenshot here)
6.) Press OK to save, exit regedit.
7.) Run RMClock and enjoy your half-multiplier. (It will not show up as 9.5x, the above hack "tricks" it into recognizing half-multipliers)

Hopefully that helps, if you need more info let me know.

[Czechnology]

Thanks for your instructions, I'll try them later. So far I'm happy the temp stays under 50 °C, that's much better than before the second try with the thermal grease.

[hunterman223]

No problem. Hopefully undervolting works for you as well as it did for me, I now idle at or around 30*C.

[Colonel O'Neill]

RMClock and some other tools tend to underreport the CPU temperature, whereas TPFC seems to provide a better value. HWmonitor provides both sets of data though.

[blackomegax]

Late advice: use AS ceramique.
it won't run or seperate after a year or two like AS5 and is within a few degrees of performance.
I use to use it exclusively on laptops till i lost the tube. Oddly since then, I have not had a need since my X200 and current T420 run room temp. I may do the nvidia chip on this, though.