t60 on the way; configuration options, heat, mobo swap?

[malt]

Hello all! I've been reading over these forums for the last week or so. Lots of good information here! I just pulled the trigger on a factory refurbished t60, and I have a few questions. This will be my first thinkpad! =]

http://www.thinkpaddepot.com/Product/7- ... d-3gb.aspx

This is the exact model I ordered, above. I don't intend to use the thinkpad for gaming, but it does have the ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 GPU. I would have preferred to purchase a thinkpad with the intel GMA 950, but I wanted the sxga+ 1400 x 1050 display. So my first question is, did lenovo ever have a unit that shipped with the gma 950 AND the sxga + display? From a bit of searching, this configuration seems non-existent.

I'm very picky about my machines running cool, so I am a bit concerned when I read some of the threads here that detail thermal problems, specifically with the ATI gpu's running hot. If i had to sacrifice the higher res display to get a cooler running laptop I'd probably do so, but as of now the order has been placed so I'm hoping I will get lucky and get a t60 that runs cool.

I saw a post here, by ssd_thinkpad:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 68#p507868

The mobo was replaced with a GMA 950 unit, and this was compatible with the sxga + display. This seems like the best of both worlds to me, and I also plan on eventually popping an SSD in there. I have some experience building PC's and working on older laptops, but not with thinkpads. I found a motherboard on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-IBM-Lenovo-Thin ... 0748816378

I'm wondering if this mobo would work for that transplant, and if it would reduce any functionality. I haven't even received my t60 yet, and heat with the x1400 may be a non issue, but i'm still curious about this transplant for battery life reasons. I usually end up undervolting and underclocking my hardware, because my emphasis is on maximum lifespan as apposed to bleeding edge performance, I'd be interested in everyone's experience undervolting / underclocking their t60's ( this one has the core duo T2400 ).

Thanks for reading!

[RealBlackStuff]

Welcome to the forum.
If you had asked before you bought, we could have told you that there are 15.4 widescreen T60's with Intel GPU and SXGA+ LCD.
There exist 14" GMA/SXGA+ machines, but I'm not sure if these are standard.
Anyway, the X1400 runs the hottest of the non T60p machines.
That eBay mobo will/would work in your new machine.
Don't know out of my head if your machine has WWAN, and if this mobo has that also.
The T2400 is the standard CPU for this type, no point wasting money in upgrading it.
HTH.

[billp117]

I would suggest leaving the T60 just as it is...it will run just fine.

Enjoy your new ThinkPad.

[malt]

Hey RealBlackStuff, thanks for your response. Ah, so they do exist! Well.. I am also a stickler when it comes to widescreen laptops.. they rub me the wrong way. I was specifically looking for a 14.1" non-wide screen model, ( that was SXGA + ofc ) but that is my oversight in not mentioning this specifically.

I may possibly have found a 14" GMA / SXGA+ machine on the same site, for a bit less $$ . However it is unclear looking @ the specs they list, because they either typo'd the display info, or they list it as an XGA, yet list the resolution as 1400 x 1050 . If you are curious this is page with the description of that model:

http://www.thinkpaddepot.com/Product/24 ... d-t60.aspx

billp117, thanks ! I'll let you guys know how she runs whenever it arrives. =P

If I do find the notebook I receive to run too hot, I'll just RMA it back, and go with a GMA model. I can always upgrade the ram later on even if it's lower spec'd. Thanks again!

[billp117]

When you get it...install Windows 7...you will be very pleased and it will run great.

[malt]

billp117, certainly I shall, I agree and I run win 7 ultimate on all my machines currently, thanks for your suggestion. I've noticed win 7 seems to really excel in terms of power management compared to previous versions of windows, especially with multiple cores / underclocking & undervolting in power saving mode(s).

[Neil]

they either typo'd the display info, or they list it as an XGA, yet list the resolution as 1400 x 1050

It's a typo, they have XGA+, obviously just left off the S.... Here is the original description:

Product: ThinkPad T60 1951-A47
Original description: Based on 1951-43U: T1300(1.6GHz), 1GB RAM, 60GB 7200rpm HD, 14.1in 1400x1050 LCD, Intel 950, CDRW/DVDRW, 802.11abg wireless, Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, 9c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

[malt]

Neil, thanks a lot for your reply and the additional information. My order currently is still pending, so I am going to give them a call tomorrow morning and change my order to the ThinkPad T60 1951-A47! =]

[brucehe]

Hello all,

I was reading this thread thought I would share my experience with W7. I installed it as a dual boot on my t60 and the machine seems to run hotter with W7 than XP (watching tp fan control temps and fan operation) so I just run XP and it works fine. I plan to replae thermal paste and clean the fan eventually to see the effect.

Have fun with your new machine.

Bruce

[RealBlackStuff]

That looks like a nice machine, except the CPU is on the 'weak' side, but maybe it has been upgraded during refurbishing.
I would ask that very specifically before buying it.
The original T1300 is only a Core Solo 1.66GHz, wrongly(?) described in that ad as Core Duo, http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27242
You should upgrade to at least a T2300 Core Duo: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27233
Or e.g. a T5500, the equivalent Core 2 Duo, suitable for 64-bit OS: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27253
Or even a T7200 Core 2 Duo, as above but with double the L2-cache, great for 64-bit OS: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27255

You should also check the battery. The original was the large 9-cell (sticks out at the back), standard is the 6-cell.

[malt]

hey RealBlackStuff,

Good catch with the core solo, I didn't notice that. I did notice the 9 cell bat so I was curious about that. I tried calling already this morning and left a message. I will try calling again if I don't hear back soon, and I will ask about the processor / battery. This depot site seems like a decent source of grade-A refurbs, but I have noticed that they tend to post conflicting specs for some models, if I am to look up the actually model number specs and compare. ( also most of the notebooks come with a 3 mo to 1 yr warranty, the t60's seem to come with 1 yr ) Thanks everyone for your help!

p.s. my preference is the duo core, it has a much lower TDP than the core 2 duo. I don't need crazy crunching power, or even 64 bit in this notebook, my emphasis is on low temps. =P So as long as this ships with a core duo I wont touch it other than to replace thermal compound w/ arctic silver 5. I do happen to have an acer laptop who's motherboard died just out of warranty, that I can pull a larger HDD, ram, and a core 2 duo from if I want. The RAM may not be compatible, I'll have to check.

EDIT:

Talked to their sales department, they were very helpful and thorough, got my order changed, and they confirmed that it will have a core duo processor. Thanks for the help everyone, I'll update this thread when my t60 arrives!

[Muse]

I would have preferred to purchase a thinkpad with the intel GMA 950, but I wanted the sxga+ 1400 x 1050 display. So my first question is, did lenovo ever have a unit that shipped with the gma 950 AND the sxga + display? From a bit of searching, this configuration seems non-existent.

Yes, I have one and I bought it in November 2006 direct from Lenovo. Still works great! I went shopping for another a few months ago and I would have preferred another just like (except I wanted Core Duo) it but I couldn't find any on ebay. So I bought a machine that was close. It has the ATI x1300 graphics and is Core Duo T2400 (my original is Core 2 Duo T5500). Same display, though.

I'm also more into lifespan of the equipment as opposed to bleeding edge performance. In fact, I intend to relegate my original T60 to data server duties, at least for a while. I want it to run cool. This is why I figure the GMA950 graphics are a better idea than the ATI x1300 in this role. However, I'm going to have to apply Arctic Silver 5 to the CPU. The CPU temps are just too hot.

You should give some consideration to applying Arctic Silver 5 to your machine if you want cool temperatures. Chances are it will improve things a lot if you apply it well. Using Arctic Silver is something of an art, and their online documentation suggests you may have to do it more than once if you aren't experienced to get the best results. Edit: I see reading further in the thread that you already know about Arctic Silver...

[Muse]

I do happen to have an acer laptop who's motherboard died just out of warranty, that I can pull a larger HDD, ram, and a core 2 duo from if I want. The RAM may not be compatible, I'll have to check.

That's amazing! My Acer Aspire 6530 laptop died (smelled of burning electronics, and I barely had time to get the data off onto a flash drive before it stopped working entirely) also just out of warranty (14 months from the purchase date in August 2009). I pulled the 250GB HD and am using it right now in the T60 I just bought (my last post describes it). That T60 didn't come with a HD. The RAM in the Acer (DDR2 667 MHz 200 pin) is a perfect match for my T6x's (I also have a T61 I bought recently!), and I'm using it. Don't know if I can make use of the CPU, don't have need to right now. Seems unlikely, I think it's an AMD.

[malt]

Hello Muse,

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, I have one and I bought it in November 2006 direct from Lenovo. Still works great!

Good to know, this helps clarify things for me, because searching around and looking @ the specs on thinkpaddepot, there is conflicting information about this. I thoroughly agree and am a fan of arctic silver 5. I have a large tube somewhere around here from building various PC's and working on other machines, so I plan to do this with the t60 as well. And applying it definitely takes attention to detail! =]

That's amazing! My Acer Aspire 6530 laptop died (smelled of burning electronics, and I barely had time to get the data off onto a flash drive before it stopped working entirely) also just out of warranty (14 months from the purchase date in August 2009). I pulled the 250GB HD and am using it right now in the T60 I just bought (my last post describes it).

I find an external 2.5" enclosure to be a cheap and useful solution to these sort of circumstances. ;] I bought an Acer Travelmate 4720, from newegg and just out of warranty something on the mobo popped, while I was using it. After that I got no lights, no fan, nothing. The power block led would blink different colors, that was the only sign I got at all pointing to a problem, but I didn't bother trying to diagnose it because I don't have the equipment to repair motherboards. I was pretty disappointed because I liked the travelmate.. solid construction, good screen, 9 cell battery ( not to mention it ran me $1k at the time ).

But... I have pulled the 2 GB of corsair ram I put in the travelmate and it will work in the t60 when it arrives, so at least I can re-use this. I will probably end up ebaying the travelmate for parts unless I happen across a cheap motherboard somewhere. Thanks again for the extra info Muse!

[Muse]

I find an external 2.5" enclosure to be a cheap and useful solution to these sort of circumstances.

I was seriously considering buying a 2.5" enclosure at one point maybe around a year ago. I had my reasons, don't recall them right now. However, the Thinkpads (e.g. your T60) offer what I think is a better idea, being the 2nd HD caddy. Cost is about the same. The speed is bound to be far better. The neat thing is that the caddy goes into the optical drive slot. The optical drives on the T6x machines pop in and out in a couple of seconds, so you can just whip out your optical drive and slide in your 2nd HD and vice versa. In fact, I ordered a 2nd HD caddy for about $12 shipped from Hong Kong (off ebay), this was on Xmas Eve. Should get here any day, I figure. I'm not sure what I'm going to use it for. I was thinking Ghosting drives/partitions, but I since discovered that USB connected HDs work OK for that. However, a caddied HD is going to be faster than a USB HD. For copying or moving large amounts of data between Thinkpads, the caddy should, I think, be optimal.

[malt]

However, the Thinkpads (e.g. your T60) offer what I think is a better idea, being the 2nd HD caddy. Cost is about the same. The speed is bound to be far better. The neat thing is that the caddy goes into the optical drive slot. The optical drives on the T6x machines pop in and out in a couple of seconds, so you can just whip out your optical drive and slide in your 2nd HD and vice versa. In fact, I ordered a 2nd HD caddy for about $12 shipped from Hong Kong (off ebay), this was on Xmas Eve. Should get here any day, I figure. I'm not sure what I'm going to use it for. I was thinking Ghosting drives/partitions, but I since discovered that USB connected HDs work OK for that. However, a caddied HD is going to be faster than a USB HD. For copying or moving large amounts of data between Thinkpads, the caddy should, I think, be optimal.

I already have a couple enclosures, but actually I read about the "ultrabay" and I was considering getting a battery etc to fit it. That is a good idea, I wasn't aware that they had a HDD caddy. This could work out well because I was eventually going to get a SSD for the boot drive, and I could use a regular HDD w/ caddy for data that is not frequently accessed or is written to often. I also make backup images regularly, and this would be ideal for that as well as you've pointed out. I pretty much planned to remove the optical drive because I rarely use them anymore, what with 8 GB usb flash drives being cheap nowadays, and I have a nice quad core system w/ an optical drive that I can use at home for burning stuff. Let me know how that caddy works, that's a good price, even cheaper than an enclosure! Thanks for the tip(s) Muse =]

[Muse]

Here's the listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

[malt]

Thanks for the link Muse! t60 arrived this past thurs. Looks brand new! I opened it up and upgraded the RAM. I noticed the underside of the keyboard has evidence of a spill, and some keys stick so I'm going to be replacing the keyboard. Also the screen res is 1024x768 ... which I am ok with for now but may end up upgrading. To others who may consider purchasing a refurbished thinkpad from thinkpaddepot, I'll forewarn you. The machine I eventually received looks brand new, no signs of wear. It came with what appears to be a new battery, that lasts 7 hours ( it's the bat that extends past the back of the laptop ).

However, I placed my order on monday, and didn't receive the laptop until the next thursday over a week later. Even though their site states they don't charge you until they ship the item, they charged me the day I ordered it, over a week before they eventually shipped it out. I changed my order from a more expensive model, and was told my account would be credited, I have yet to receive the difference. I had to make several calls to find out the status of my order, they rarely answered and when they did I was misled, telling me more than a couple times it would ship the next day, when it didn't.

So basically, although for now I'm happy with the thinkpad I received, the experience was very unprofessional, quite a hassle. I am fairly experienced with working on laptops, but if I were the average consumer I'd receive a refurbished machine with a keyboard that is damaged from a spill.. that I might not know how to replace or fix. Considering the poor communication of this place, such a person would be in for a long hassle. So there's my warning to anyone reading this thread and considering buying a thinkpad from the links I posted earlier.

[Muse]

Just saw your post. That's some tough luck, malt. Knock on wood, my vendors have been better. Maybe it's me, I check out the vendor pretty well if I have any doubt ahead of time. In your case, you knew you were up to issues should there be any and that's where you are. I hope you didn't pay too much. Myself, I would have been unhappy with the screen you got. My two used/refurb Thinkpads have also looked virtually new. If it weren't for wear on the keytops of the T60 I got a few months back you wouldn't know it wasn't new. The T61 I bought refurbed did look new, I swear. The battery that came with it, is far from new, though. It's got life, but not as much as the 4 year old one I got with my original new T60 (which I've babied!). The T60 I bought recently didn't come with a battery or a HD. It was represented as for parts, but I guessed (and right) that it was fixable.

[ssd_thinkpad]

This is ssd_thinkpad who wrote the report you wrote about in your first post.

The GMA950 worked nicer for videos than the x1300 GPU I had in my "untouched" T60. There are limitations for the gma950: You can not display blue ray movies. Other than that, it's fine. I am using the 15 inch Flexview with SXGA+ resolution. I am also using several external monitors when the notebook is docked, from 1280x1024 up to 1600x1200. No problems here.

The T60 with its gma950 and ssd works nice without using the fan at all. It is constantly around - below - 80 celsius. As much as I can remember, with the x1300 it was hotter and I had to run the fan once 85 celsius were reached. Thinkpad FanControl is a great tool.

To use less battery power, I removed everything I do not need on my thinkpad: internal speakers (external ones are connected to the docking station, and on the road I do not want to make noise), bluetooth, pcmcia card, fingerprint reader. I use rmclock to undervolt the cpu.

[ssd_thinkpad]

I use and can recommend the T2400 with around 1,8 GHZ. It's a core duo and it does not get so hot, does not use much watt. It is a 32 bit cpu so you can only use windows 7 32 bit.