CES2011: IPS LCDs for the T61, T400 available? (!)

[ThinkRob]

Their iPhone has a "retina" display.

Eh, don't give 'em too much credit for that one. Stellar marketing to be sure, but there were (and are) several phones with equally-crisp displays, including some that use superior display tech.

[pianowizard]

Eh, don't give 'em too much credit for that one. Stellar marketing to be sure, but there were (and are) several phones with equally-crisp displays, including some that use superior display tech.

"Retina" refers to the super-high pixel density of 326 DPI. Which phones had a higher DPI?

[automobus]

I would like to know as well. What product, besides perhaps digital viewfinders (camera) and projectors, have ever had such pixel density? As far as I know, it could be a world record.

[anthean]

Eh, don't give 'em too much credit for that one. Stellar marketing to be sure, but there were (and are) several phones with equally-crisp displays, including some that use superior display tech.

I really wasn't trying to quibble over names. Nor am I claiming the iPhone display is the best (although I have one and am impressed).

I was merely asserting that Apple gets what they want. That suppliers yield to Apple's demands. And that it seems reasonable MacBooks have 16:10 displays because that is what Apple wants.

And I am a little tired of Lenovo whining that "We're not Apple." Lenovo claims to be the third (or is it fourth) largest computer maker. But at the same time, they demur that they have too many different products with too many different screen sizes for them to actually have any influence with suppliers.

This may be true. But Lenovo controls what products they offer. Apple succeeds by keeping their product line simple, and in fact the Thinkpad line was also quite simple when Lenovo purchased it from IBM. If Lenovo has diarrhea of the product line, it is their own fault.

[ThinkRob]

I would like to know as well. What product, besides perhaps digital viewfinders (camera) and projectors, have ever had such pixel density? As far as I know, it could be a world record.

The iPhone 4 probably wins on sheer pixel density. Still, numbers aren't always meaningful, and considering that you can't actually resolve anywhere near that resolution at an arm's length away, there are a number of screens that appear equally-sharp. (Of course if you hold the screen right up to your face you can tell a difference -- but that's not really typical.)

As far as the display tech is concerned, Apple's "revolutionary" display is not clearly superior to its competitors: Super AMOLED, Super LCD, and IPS displays are all found in the same class of phones that the iPhone 4 competes in.

[pianowizard]

Still, numbers aren't always meaningful, and considering that you can't actually resolve anywhere near that resolution at an arm's length away, there are a number of screens that appear equally-sharp.

You really need to try browsing the internet on an iPhone4 and compare the experience with that on any other smartphones, which are only up to 854x480 resolution. It's a night-versus-day difference. On the iPhone4's 960x640 screen, you can rotate it into portrait mode (i.e. 640x960), fit most web sites' width within the screen's width and the text is still legible. On my HTC Touch Pro2's 800x480 screen, the 480 pixel rows I get in portrait mode is insufficient for most web sites. The only way I can view the full width of a web site is in landscape mode, and I have to scroll a lot more than someone viewing the same web page on an iPhone4 in portrait mode.

Like many if not most people on this forum, I think most Apple products are overrated and find certain Apple fans' attitude repulsive. But I don't let my bias prevent me from appreciating some of these products' nice or even revolutionary features, e.g. the iPhone4's screen *IS* a revolutionary smartphone display; the 17" MacBook Pro *IS* a very fine machine; the iPad *IS* a brilliant idea.

[anthean]

Just to make clear, I wasn't an Apple fan until a week ago, when I got a Verizon iPhone. This is the first Apple product I have owned (although I did briefly use a Mac at work 20 years ago).

But I am impressed. Impressed enough to ditch Lenovo and all their excuses.

[pianowizard]

Apple succeeds by keeping their product line simple, and in fact the Thinkpad line was also quite simple when Lenovo purchased it from IBM. If Lenovo has diarrhea of the product line, it is their own fault.

Somehow I missed this post earlier, perhaps because I was browsing this thread on my HTC Touch Pro2's low-res screen LOL! Anyway, I too salute Apple and Jobs for understanding that "less is more". IBM also understood that. But most of the current PC laptop and desktop manufacturers don't. One thing that I find particularly puzzling is why Dell, HP etc. find it necessary to offer separate lines of laptops to "home" and "business" users.

[ThinkRob]

But I don't let my bias prevent me from appreciating some of these products' nice or even revolutionary features, e.g. the iPhone4's screen *IS* a revolutionary smartphone display; the 17" MacBook Pro *IS* a very fine machine; the iPad *IS* a brilliant idea.

I agree with your second point; hardware-wise I think the MacBook Pro is one of the nicest consumer machines out there. And yes, the iPad is brilliant in the sense that no manufacturer had previously realized the market that existed for that sort of tablet (and the only other manufacturer that really did take an honest stab at internet tablets was so woefully incompetent that the execution was a complete joke.)

As far as the iPhone 4's display though, I'm sorry -- I just don't see how it's "revolutionary". It's slightly-higher resolution than its competitors, but that's about it. TBH, I was a lot more impressed with the Nexus One and Nexus S displays when they came out than with the iPhone 4's display.

[pianowizard]

As far as the iPhone 4's display though, I'm sorry -- I just don't see how it's "revolutionary". It's slightly-higher resolution than its competitors, but that's about it.

The iPhone4 is 60% higher res than most smartphones' 800x480. The difference is almost the same as 1280x1024 versus 1024x768. And for web browsing, the iPhone4's 4:3 aspect ratio is far superior to other phones' shortscreens.

[ThinkRob]

The iPhone4 is 60% higher res than most smartphones' 800x480. The difference is almost the same as 1280x1024 versus 1024x768. And for web browsing, the iPhone4's 4:3 aspect ratio is far superior to other phones' shortscreens.

Since we're already way, way off topic here, agree to disagree?

[penartur]

"Retina" refers to the super-high pixel density of 326 DPI. Which phones had a higher DPI?

High-end keitais (japanese phones) switched to 854*480 years ago. I've used SH906i (made by Sharp for DoCoMo) for a while (it was released during summer of 2008) with a 3.0" screen, which means screen DPI was the same 326 DPI (currently i'm using SH-01B which, although having the same resolution, is 3.4", so slightly lower DPI). There are even older phones, SH905i for example. Many of these phones screens are also wide-viewing-angle, just like iPhone 4's. Also there are some phones produced by Fujitsu with 960*480 screen, and Sharp FullTouch resolution is IIRC 1024*480.
I believe 904SH (made by Sharp for Softbank) was their first VGA phone. It had 333DPI on its 2.4" screen; and it was released i believe during summer of 2006, four years before iPhone 4.
It seems that there just was not any demand on the west on such phones screens resolutions. In Japan the demand is caused by complexity of Kanji characters, which could not be fit in e.g. 10px*10px rectangle without losing their recognizability, as opposed to latin or cyrillic characters; so in order to have an acceptable amount of lines on your phone screen it should have really high DPI.

[automobus]

High-end keitais (japanese phones) switched to 854*480 years ago.

Aha! I was so sceptic about the iPhone screen being the first in the world. So much technology news does not spread far.

I believe 904SH (made by Sharp for Softbank) was their first VGA phone. It had 333DPI on its 2.4" screen; and it was released i believe during summer of 2006, four years before iPhone 4.

Impressive! That beats the OpenMoko handhelds. I always thought there must be some "real" phones with such pixel density, no way OpenMoko could custom order VGA screens. Until now, though, I had no proof.

In Japan the demand is caused by complexity of Kanji characters.

Makes sense. Now I know who, where, and when had high-density screens before, and even why. Thank you, penartur: that was a great post.

[penartur]

Makes sense. Now I know who, where, and when had high-density screens before, and even why. Thank you, penartur: that was a great post.

Some Sharps are also produced for China/HK/TW markets for the same reason. Not for Korea of course

[automobus]

It seems that there just was not any demand on the west on such phones screens resolutions. In Japan the demand is caused by complexity of Kanji characters, which could not be fit in e.g. 10px*10px rectangle without losing their recognizability, as opposed to latin or cyrillic characters; so in order to have an acceptable amount of lines on your phone screen it should have really high DPI.

I thank you again for presenting the truth. I found a very good article about Japanese text on screens and printers. I want all ThinkPadders to read this essay. Now I realise, I know so little about different cultures!

about Japanese text in digital devices, by Gatunka
Japanese Computers – Still Living It 8-bit

[twistero]

Well, this is an old post, but I can't find enough opportunities to bash Apple and their "revolutionary" retina display.

I believe 904SH (made by Sharp for Softbank) was their first VGA phone. It had 333DPI on its 2.4" screen; and it was released i believe during summer of 2006, four years before iPhone 4.

I believe the first VGA phone is actually the 903SH. It (and its variants) was very popular in southeast Asia for the gorgeous screen.
Also, Nokia had a few high-resolution screens for its smartphones, the earliest of which being N90, sporting a 352*416 2.2 inch display

about Japanese text in digital devices, by Gatunka
Japanese Computers – Still Living It 8-bit

In this article the author talked about "the rise of China" as if nobody in China used computers.
The problem of insufficient details, in mainland China at least, is partially solved by simplified Chinese characters. For those of you who don't know: There are two sets of Chinese characters, "traditional" which is used in Hong Kong & Taiwan (and on which Japanese Kanji is based), and "simplified" which is used in mainland China and Singapore. The simplified characters are, well, simpler, and often have far less strokes than the traditional counterpart. As a result everyday text in simplified Chinese are very readable in 10- or 12-pixel heights.

[anthean]

Between the competition from the "retina" MacBook Pro, along with this bit of news about declining LCD TV sales:

The LCD flavor of flat-screen TVs are by far the most popular, making up 84% of the market, yet demand for them is waning. Shipments of LCD units declined for the first time ever, dropping 3% to 43 million units in the first quarter, according to an NPD DisplaySearch report released Wednesday.

Source: CNN Money

I tend to think we will see Lenovo and other manufacturers responding not just with higher resolutions, but maybe even a return to 16:10 screen ratios. It is now a buyer's market.