RAID1 Failure - Possible HD Diagnostic

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Geophyte1 · #1 Post by **Geophyte1** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:07 pm

My RAID1 just failed for the third time in 10 days.

When A RAID1 fails in Intel Matrix Manager I believe you should be able to boot from either HD as a single HD but I've noticed twice that there is one drive I have that will not boot while still in raid1 configuration as a single drive but will boot after I have brolen the RAID1. The other drive has no problem booting as a single RAID1 drive.

Is the fact that the one drive will not boot while still set to a RAID1 drive possibly diagnostic of a bad drive? This is also the drive that "clicks" as noted in another post.

I have called Lenovo and I expect to eventually get a new drive but I'm just curious to see if anyone has had this happen and what was the eventual outcome.

This same drive will not fully rebuild the raid using the boot raid manager but after the raid is broken on both drives it will rebuild in windows as the source drive.

I also noticed that when the non-raid booting drive is still set to raid1 and I try to boot with it as a single the raid manager on bootup says "Failed" next to the Volume and "Error Occurred" next to the drive whereas the other drive says "Degraded" next to the volume and "Member Disk" in green next to the drive.

But after I break the raid on the non-booting disk it says Non-raid disk in green.

???

thanks

AMATX · #2 Post by **AMATX** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:21 pm

Coincidentally, this morning I just happened to be reading some info on this problem over at:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/

I don't know enough about Raid to comment much, so I'd just recommend you poke around over there some, in the W5xx/W7xx section, if I remember correctly.

#3 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:13 am

After making the same mistake three times, don't you think it's time to replace that hard disk?
It probably will work fine as a single HD elsewhere, just not in a RAID setup.

Majestic · #4 Post by **Majestic** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:07 am

Geophyte1 wrote:My RAID1 just failed for the third time in 10 days.

Time to replace the problem drive especially after 3 tries.

When A RAID1 fails in Intel Matrix Manager I believe you should be able to boot from either HD as a single HD but I've noticed twice that there is one drive I have that will not boot while still in raid1 configuration as a single drive but will boot after I have brolen the RAID1. The other drive has no problem booting as a single RAID1 drive.

Is the drive that will not boot your clicking drive, if so replace it in your RAID array.

Is the fact that the one drive will not boot while still set to a RAID1 drive possibly diagnostic of a bad drive? This is also the drive that "clicks" as noted in another post.

A clicking drive usually means a drive that will eventually die. A clicking drive would also not be a good choice as drive in a Non-RAID use since it is on it's way out.

This same drive will not fully rebuild the raid using the boot raid manager but after the raid is broken on both drives it will rebuild in windows as the source drive.

This is correct. The Intel Matrix Manager will do the rebuilding from with-in the operating system.

I also noticed that when the non-raid booting drive is still set to raid1 and I try to boot with it as a single the raid manager on bootup says "Failed" next to the Volume and "Error Occurred" next to the drive whereas the other drive says "Degraded" next to the volume and "Member Disk" in green next to the drive.

But after I break the raid on the non-booting disk it says Non-raid disk in green.

That all sounds like the Intel Matrix Manager is working correctly since you are trying to use a problematic drive in the array.

thanks

Geophyte1 · #5 Post by **Geophyte1** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:15 pm

Thanks for the information. I'm headed toward getting a replacement drive.

I do believe the clicking drive is the one that acts badly.

I did call Lenovo Friday but they had trouble locating the drives as being under waranty - they were purchased in late November 2010 - so I'm waiting for a call from the Warranty People to which I'm then supposed to fax the proof of purchase and then hopefully I'll get a replacement 500.

So I've had some time to play with it and come up with more questions.

Thanks again,

Geophyte1 · #6 Post by **Geophyte1** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:08 pm

Well, I've just rebuilt the RAID1 with the replacement HD sent by Lenovo and everyting seems very good.

The HD they sent is a Seagate whereas both the 302 and 500 gig HDs I've had thus far have been Hitachi. The Seagate has a higher part number than the Hitachi.

The Seagate is in slot 0.

There are no longer any audible clicking sounds.

I've gotten the stethoscope out and the Seagate drive is whisper quite even with the stethoscope. It is much much quieter than the Hitachi. I can definitely hear the Hitachi doing something when the HD light flickers but I'm not sure I hear anything on the Seagate.

Thanks again for the help.

Majestic · #7 Post by **Majestic** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:51 am

Glad to hear you got the machine up and running again.

Geophyte1 · #8 Post by **Geophyte1** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:41 pm

Bad news. The RAID1 degraded this evening.

The new Seagate drive showed "Failed" on the Intel Matrix Manager Donsole drive information page and on bootup it showed "Failed" Next to the RAID1 and "Error Occurred" next to the drive.

As was true with the "Failed" Hitachi drive, the Seagate was in slot "0" and would not boot up the machine by itself until after I broke the RAID1 on it and then it booted the machine. I'm using it to send this post.
I'm getting much closer to believing that this is not a hard drive problem.
In December this happened with my old 320gig HDs and I called Lenovo and they were going to replace the mainboard but I talked to the tech and he brought both a HD and a main board and when the "failed" HD wouldn't boot the machine and the new drive started rebuilding as a RAID1 it was assumedd that it was a HD problem and that was that. The computer was not used much if any until after Christmas and that was when I started trying to rebuild the RAID1 with the 500GB drives. So the 320s never got to run much after the RAID1 was rebuilt and did not get a chance for the RAID1 to fail before I quit using them.

This is now the fourth time the RAID1 has failed with 500GB drives and each time the RAID1 lasts about 3 days and then degrades.
I'm out of town tomorrow but I'll call Lenovo on Wednesday.

Anybody seen anything like this before?

Geophyte1 · #9 Post by **Geophyte1** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:00 pm

Rebuilt raid1 on 1/26/2010 Hitachi in slot 0 and seagate in slot 1. failed 2/2/2011 - slot 0 drive again showed failed.
Rebooted and in Windows 7 in Intel Matrix Mgr set failed raid to normal and raid immediately started rebuilding.
Have used 1 day and part of today and still in raid.

Still no answer as to why.

I did have matrix magr open when it failed but only to look at information - no actions.

Seem to always be looking at IE screen when it happens. computer freezes and then it is degraded.

thanks,

Majestic · #10 Post by **Majestic** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:35 am

When the computer freezes are you forcing a reboot by using the power button? If so, then the storage manager will treat the forced shutdown as a possible system problem and go into a verify mode upon restart.

Also try using IE with no add-ons or install a different browser. It could be a problem with IE itself. I've got an older Compaq laptop that will occasionally lock up with IE. I've never resolved the issue, but I suspect it has to do with some add-on IE uses.

Geophyte1 · #11 Post by **Geophyte1** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:02 pm

Interesting timing on the answer.

It happened again last night and for the first time I did not force it down but it still degraded.

I've been tinkering with some settings based on some other posts I've seen. None of these deal directly with a Raid but they have some of the same issues such as the ethernet adapter periodically disconnecting. I'm trying some things and will let everyone know how it goes.

I also just posted a new topic concering an event log entry hoping to make it go away and also hoping it will help solve this problem.
If none of this fixes the problem I'll try the IE idea.

I suppose the good news is that I am running a raid1 so I'm theoretically not losing anything.

Geophyte1 · #12 Post by **Geophyte1** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:21 pm

I've got so many posts going that there is some overlap but....

I found out one thing i don't want to run with the RAID1 on my computer.

the last two times my RSID1 has degraded it has been soon after I've run CCleaner registry cleaner.

I'm working today ona single drive and will let the raid1 rebuild agsain this evening - hopefully.

Majestic · #13 Post by **Majestic** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:15 am

I've been using CCleaner for years on all my systems and never experienced a problem especially with RAID and Intel's storage manager. I guess it is always possible for CCleaner to be the cause depending on what options you have set to clean although I don't recall any settings that would have a direct effect on RAID. The only way to tell for sure is to abstain from using it to see if the problem goes away.

After you do the rebuild you should consider running the Toolbox diagnostics for your model if you haven't done so already. That might detect an underlying hardware problem.

Geophyte1 · #14 Post by **Geophyte1** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:30 am

Thank Dale. I'm glad to hear that it may not be CCleaner.

This RAID1 thing has been going on for about 2 months now and has been discussed to some degree on other posts here and on another Thinkpad forum. I just started using CCleaner less than a week ago. It may be just coincidence but I had stretched out the degrading occurrences to a week for the first time before I installed CCleaner and after I installed it and ran it it happened immediately and then again yesterday. I've uninstalled it so well see how stable the computer gets. I have also been working on cleaning up my events log and one of the events I can't seem to get rid of - and is on another post - involves registry leaks. I know CCleaner left a key with a reference to some software I had uninstalled but I suppose that may mean that the supposedly uninstalled software may be hiding somewhere and recreating that key.

So many unknowns.

During this RAID1 trip I have run the TVT hardware diagnostics a few times but nothing ever shows up. Coincidences do seem to happen with computers and I think during this RAID1 thing I have had a few.

I've read a number of posts on many forums lately and it seems to me that some update, either Lenovo or Microsoft, in early to mid December may have triggered what I'm experiencing. Not sure.

Majestic · #15 Post by **Majestic** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:34 pm

Did you ever check to see if your chipset is supported by Intel's new Rapid Storage Technology driver and manager? That has replaced the Intel Matrix Manager, at least on my RAID desktop system. The newer driver and manager might help resolve your issues.

Here is the link........

http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/hi ... hpsts/imsm

Geophyte1 · #16 Post by **Geophyte1** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:27 pm

When I look on the Lenovo site at the download page it shows the Rapid Storage as not available for the W700ds in windows 7. Based on the Intel site and the prerequisites it appears it would work.

I downloaded the iden tool but it has a problem with permissions even though I try to run as Admin. I'll play with that when i have more time.

Geophyte1 · #17 Post by **Geophyte1** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:33 am

Just thought I'd post an update to the RAID1 failures that were happening with a frequency of 1 or 2 a week.

I did a number of things so I'm not sure what did it but my RAID1 has not degraded since 2/2/2011. Slot 0 had become - and maybe always was - the defacto slot where the HD had the error irrespective of which HD was in that slot.

Without going into a complete list of what I did - because I don't have a complete list - here are a few. Some of these will probably seem amusing, but there was some reason for suspcion.

I uninstalled PCDoctor. Haven't used CCCleaner. Haven't opened matrix manager. Installed OpenDNS. Disabled the telephony service. Removed a few programs none of which were on the computer when the problem started. Some of these were in response to events. I tried to clean up the number of events as much as possible.

I still think it had something to do with the interaction of IE and some other program or service because it always seemed to happen when IE was being used but I continue to use IE.

Someday maybe I'll try one at a time but my motivation to do that is low.

Thanks for the help.

Majestic · #18 Post by **Majestic** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:27 pm

Thanks for the update as well.

I assume you have done so already, but just a reminder to review Windows Event Logs to see if there is any indication of the problem there.

Geophyte1 · #19 Post by **Geophyte1** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:12 pm

The RAID1 degraded this past Monday - 4/4/2011. It lasted over 2 months.

Unlike all of the other previous degradations, the events log did not have any "unusual" events before iastor started appearing.

One of the items I thought I had done back in February to try and correct the problem and which I think I had neglected to mention in previous posts was to disable the PCI bus power management. This was in response to some searching on the internet on a specific event description "The device, \Device\Ide\iaStor0, did not respond within the timeout period."
I had gone under "Power Plan" and disabled the PCI Express Link state power management BUT I had failed to go to the Global Power Settings tab and disable the PCI bus power management.
I did this Monday afternoon before I rebuilt the RAID1 so we'll see how long it lasts this time.

Geophyte1 · #20 Post by **Geophyte1** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:15 pm

RAID1 degraded again about 1 hour ago.
Still don't know what is causing it.

Can anyone provide some direction as to how to get rid of this evebt log item. The list of the registry handles leaking is growing.
The "HarddiskVolume3" reference is confusing. I used CCleaner on Windows 7 and my XPMode after the RAID1 degraded today just to see if it would fix the messages but nothing changed.
Thanks.
"Windows detected your registry file is still in use by other applications or services. The file will be unloaded now. The applications or services that hold your registry file may not function properly afterwards.
DETAIL -
7 user registry handles leaked from \Registry\User\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000:
Process 696 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\lsass.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000
Process 696 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\lsass.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000
Process 4616 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Lenovo\tvt_reg_monitor_svc.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000
Process 4616 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Lenovo\tvt_reg_monitor_svc.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000
Process 696 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\lsass.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000\Software\Microsoft\SystemCertificates\Disallowed
Process 696 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\lsass.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000\Software\Microsoft\SystemCertificates\My
Process 696 (\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\lsass.exe) has opened key \REGISTRY\USER\S-1-5-21-1071416937-1800309502-2446005284-1000\Software\Microsoft\SystemCertificates\CA"

hunterman223 · #21 Post by **hunterman223** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:44 pm

Have you tried a format and reinstall? Seems like too many unknowns to easily diagnose, see if it does it with a fresh install, all drivers and no programs.

Geophyte1 · #22 Post by **Geophyte1** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:47 am

This machine had a fresh install immediately before this started. This list is growing but it has had some of these from day one after the install.

I understand your method and the troubleshooting that could be conducted in this way by carefully watching as things are added but I'm not willing to devote the time at this point.

What about the Harddisk3? Is that the XPMode hardrive it is indicating?

Anybody know?

Geophyte1 · #23 Post by **Geophyte1** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:11 am

I'm just going to continue to use this thread to keep a record of the degradations.

It happened again yesterday.

Geophyte1 · #24 Post by **Geophyte1** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:17 am

I should have mentioned in the preceding post that, for the first time in a number of degradations, the drive in slot 1, the Seagate, showed failed.
I rebuilt the RAID1 last night and, at the moment, things are working as they should.

#25 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:56 pm

If you want RAID, why not use a desktop?
With all the time wasted on this issue, I would have returned the machine long time ago to Lenovo!
Ever heard of a Lemon Law?
OR: forget about RAID, install Acronis True Image, and regularly make backups/images from main drive to other drive.

hunterman223 · #26 Post by **hunterman223** » Fri May 06, 2011 5:10 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:If you want RAID, why not use a desktop?
With all the time wasted on this issue, I would have returned the machine long time ago to Lenovo!
Ever heard of a Lemon Law?
OR: forget about RAID, install Acronis True Image, and regularly make backups/images from main drive to other drive.

I agree with that 100%. It doesn't seem like the issue is going to fix itself, and no one on here seems to know his to fix it either. Even if you give up on RAID, send the machine in to Lenovo. It can't hurt, and it may turn out to be the start of something serious.

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Geophyte1 · #27 Post by **Geophyte1** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:32 am

Another Raid failure to add to the list occurred yesterday, July 17.I do agree with the last poster that it doesn't appear that the situation is going to fix itself.

I enjoy having the W700 and don't want the hassle of changing machines.

I'll just let the RAID1 reconstitute itself every so often and go on. It takes about 2 hours and I can use it after it degrades until I get through with the days work and let the machine repair while I either sleep or watch the TV without risking the possibility of too much rework - which has not happened yet.

I believe this has something to do with updates but i'm not certain about that.

Majestic · #28 Post by **Majestic** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:03 pm

When the Intel Matrix Storage Manager kicks in, is it actually repairing the RAID or is it just verifying the RAID array? Back when I had the Matrix Storage Manager on my desktop, something as simple as an application hanging at shutdown/reboot was enough to start the verification on the next boot up. Most of the time there were 0 repairs being done, but the verification process still took a while. Since updating to the newer Rapid Storage version, that problem has resolved itself. My guess is that the Matrix Storage version was a little too sensitive to system burps.

Geophyte1 · #29 Post by **Geophyte1** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:08 pm

I'm not sure what matrix manager is doing in the background when it is happening but it has happened often enough now that I pretty well know when it is occurring.

The matrix manager notifies, with the icon, that the raid is degraded. on reboot, one drive is good and the other is failed. It has been both drive 0 and drive 1 at times and seems to go in streaks. I've learned that the most efficient way to rebuild is to open matrix manager and mark the "failed" drive as "normal". The raid automatically begins to rebuild.

The programs that I'm working with when it happens may have nothing to do with the raid1 degrading but I have suspicioned at times that IE has something to do with it.

This last time I was using Excel 2007 on my 64 bit Win7. I started to widen a column and I saw Excel do something I've never seen before. I can't really describe it other than to say that the column widened in one spot but not others and then the program hung.
A program/computer hanging is the key to it happening. There are times programs hang and everything eventually works itself out as it would normally do but when the raid starts to degrade it will hang a program/computer and if you leave it alone it will eventually come back but the raid is degraded. I'd say 8 times out of ten when the computer starts to go very slowly or hang, it is degrading.
I leave the matrix manager alone at all other times because I triggered a degradation once by letting matrix manager do one of its things - don't remember what that was.
Your problem sounds similar but not exactly like mine.

Geophyte1 · #30 Post by **Geophyte1** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:32 am

Another Raid1 Failure on my W700 yesterday, August Friday 13th. This one less than a month since the last.

Are there HDs that are actually made for, or work better with, these Lenovo Raid1s?

This has all been hashed before, in much greater detail, but I had the W700 about 9 months, using the 320 gig HDs that came with it in a RAID1 configuration, before the first degradation occurred. (The machine came with a RAID0 configuration because I had accidentally ordered the wrong RAID setup - my bad - but then, it turned out, the DVD player shipped with the machine would not start up and rebuild a Raid so I had to find and use an older (a few months older) DVD player to build the Raid1. This was done when I first got the machine) I have an onsite warranty and every Lenovo HW test showed the harddrive, and only the HD, as bad so Lenovo set up the tech to come out and replace the mainboard. I wish now that I had kept my nose out of it and let that happen as scheduled but when the tech made contact with me to schedule the visit I mentioned to him that the HD was the only thing indicating bad so he ordered a HD and when he came out he replaced the "failed" HD and it started rebuilding the Raid1 so no new/rebuilt mainboard was installed. I still don't know if that made a difference and I still believe that some update triggered this but what I do know is that after that first time the Raid1 started degrading on a very regular basis. I replaced, under warranty, one of the 320s because it was clicking and that helped a little but not much. Just before the problem started I had purchased two 500gig HDs so at some point I put them in and rebuilt from scratch but the problem still existed. Trying to troubleshoot and follow and leads from the I cleaned up my error messages as we are wont to do and that stretched the degradations out from less than a week to more than a month - sometimes two or three months. This last one occurred in less than a month which hasn't occurred since earlier this year. Every time the Intel Matrix Manager says the HD is "Failed" and each time I mark the HD as "Normal" the Raid1 starts to rebuild. Looking back on it that would have probably occurred had I known to do that with the first occurrence but the machine thought it was bad and so did the tech.

I had used Lenovo laptops in a corporate setting, never having to do any type of troubleshooting before, so I had a steep learning curve when I got the w700 with the RAID1 - not only with the hardware but the state of Lenovo service which I would characterize as variable. I have had some very helpful people but I have had some that don't know the meaning of service.