Found website selling windows 7 for $40-$50.

[eecon]

Furthermore, it's actually a moot point if the new owner plans to use the unit as a spare box for their nearly identical other T61p running WinXP Pro SP3 (via a simple HDD swap back and forth) and who also has the original Vista Business HDD (w/ Recovery partition) which came preinstalled on their first T61p. That stored Lenovo HDD could be used to put both T61p units back to their proper original state if they ever plan to sell both T61p units in the future.

It also offers a good opportunty to test out Windows 7 32-Bit for a while to see how it compares with their beloved WinXP Pro (via a HDD swap from their earlier T61's original preload). A test which may prove that for most things they prefer to continue with WinXP Pro SP3 over Windows 7 32-bit, especially when there may be no difference in 3DMark06 scores between the two 32-bit Operating Systems (none ..... absolutely no difference, FWIW).

[Bánh mì]

The OS software could also be loaded with foreign spyware etc. I wouldn't touch it with a 20' pole if I were you. Why can't you just get the real thing and have peace of mind?

[eecon]

The OS software could also be loaded with foreign spyware etc. I wouldn't touch it with a 20' pole if I were you. Why can't you just get the real thing and have peace of mind?

After testing the Win7 system with no personal info or files transferred to it, nor visiting any personal sites requiring passwords, I find I still prefer WinXP Pro SP3 ...... so it was simply a no-harm-done test run.

The 320GB HD from the purchased T61p that came preloaded with the questionable version of Win7 has been wiped clean of all partitions long ago (several passes) and that HD sits in my storage bin where it can do no harm.

[Bánh mì]

You really ought to give W7 some serious reconsideration. BTW its superior to XP and you can still have XP via XP Mode.

[ozzymud]

BTW its superior to XP

Windows XP for *ME* is far superior to 7... Saying 7 is for everyone is like saying your Ford is better then someones Chevy... It is a pointless argument, I have a tri boot 7 & XP & Linux... 7 hasn't been started in months, Linux... I really like the platform, but I am a gamer and it still lacks.

7 is just too much of a pain for me to be comfortable with, I keep it there mainly to help troubleshoot friends over the phone who have 7 (and most of the time i run 7 in a virtual machine anyways), I still to date haven't found ONE GOOD reason to make me switch to 7.

[eecon]

You really ought to give W7 some serious reconsideration. BTW its superior to XP and you can still have XP via XP Mode.

WinXP Pro behind a router on a single computer using FDE hard drives and ZoneAlarm Internet Security Suite is more than adequate for my light duty needs in retirement here at age 58 .... checking email every few days, occasional light web browsing, reading the news once or twice a week when I'm actually home, checking my bank accounts and the three Hedge Funds currently managing some of my cash on the up-and-up (truly a real challenge these days finding an honest Investment Banker on Wall Street), and paying two or three monthly bills.

Maybe someday for Win7 ..... like when I grow younger and start playing virtual computer games from a rocking chair, but for now I'm having too much fun sailing, tinkering & driving my mid-60's Corvettes and Mustang convertibles, playing lots of real golf (and some tennis) under warm sun-drenched skies.

[ajkula66]

eecon wrote:

Maybe someday for Win7 ..... like when I grow younger and start playing virtual computer games from a rocking chair, but for now I'm having too much fun sailing, tinkering & driving my mid-60's Corvettes and Mustang convertibles, playing lots of real golf (and some tennis) under warm sun-drenched skies.

Good for you! Enjoy!

[ArtShapiro]

... it had a MSDN identifier 00371-221. That is why the discs are so cheap. They are taking a legit copy of windows and activating it with a MSDN key. In the end I believe that this machine will go black again...

I'm jumping into the fray real late here, so forgive me.

What is this implication, if I understand you correctly, that MSDN activations expire or "go black" after some period of time?

I have one or more MSDN-licensed machines for all thirteen (I believe) currently-supported Windows versions, some of which have been running for extended periods of time, and have never observed this phenomenon.

Clarification, please!

Art

[DOS_equis]

I'm jumping into the fray real late here, so forgive me.

What is this implication, if I understand you correctly, that MSDN activations expire or "go black" after some period of time?

I have one or more MSDN-licensed machines for all thirteen (I believe) currently-supported Windows versions, some of which have been running for extended periods of time, and have never observed this phenomenon.

Clarification, please!

Art

OK. All I have to go on is other posts and whatnot in the net but it seems that MSDN keys can go black (non-genuine) after a period of time. I think it would happen if the keys are overused. Since I don't have access to MSDN or any experience with using the keys (other than this disc) all I can do is make an informed conclusion. I did research this before posting because I was trying to figure out what was going on with the activation of my T60. I was under the impression that the disc I bought was a legit set of discs (I should have known better considering the price of them). After a 6 month period of time the machine went black. I emailed the company I bought the discs from and told them what happened. It took 3 different keys before I could get the activation straightened out. Every key I used from them had the Product ID I talked about. The first two new keys would not fix the non-genuine status. I even confirmed this by doing a clean install and systematically went through each key in the order they gave them to me and they all were blacked out except the last one, which took them a few days to get to me. I did the clean install because the last key would not activate either so I thought the install was hosed from the repeated attempts at activation. While I was waiting for a good key, I researched and found out the product ID means it was from MSDN.

If you were looking around on eBay at all around the time of Windows 7 launch there were a bunch of people on there selling just the keys. You would win the auction and they would send you an email with the key in it and a link where you could download the ISO from Microsoft. Those were all MSDN keys and most, if not all, have probably gone black by now. I believe Microsoft has changed the rules regarding the use of the MSDN keys. They will blacklist you from MSDN if they can prove that the keys are being sold or misused for profit. If you have a legitimate MSDN subscription are not misusing the keys then you have nothing to worry about IMO. If you are reselling the keys, maybe even multiple times, then they will go black eventually.

I wasn't trying to say that all MSDN keys are bad or on a timer but the new ones from MSDN seem to be. For all I know they have a tiered subscription model where some are temporary test keys and some are permanent. Maybe you could clear the air on this so I will know the real deal on how it works since I'm reading all of this 3rd hand on forums.


DOS_equis

[bill bolton]

What is this implication, if I understand you correctly, that MSDN activations expire or "go black" after some period of time?

Only if they are used in a way which makes it clear to Microsoft that the EULA associated with MSDN keys has been breached (i.e. too many activations from too many different places). This also applies to Technet keys, which are basically the same thing.

If the keys are used within the scope of the relevant EULA, they are good in perpetuity.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[ArtShapiro]

OK. All I have to go on is other posts and whatnot in the net but it seems that MSDN keys can go black (non-genuine) after a period of time. ...
I wasn't trying to say that all MSDN keys are bad or on a timer but the new ones from MSDN seem to be. For all I know they have a tiered subscription model where some are temporary test keys and some are permanent. Maybe you could clear the air on this so I will know the real deal on how it works since I'm reading all of this 3rd hand on forums.

DOS_equis

Boy, it's hard to argue with reality; I'm not about to assert that your black screen is imaginary! But here's where I'll present my empirical experience, without trying to pose as a M$ guru.

There are apparently eight levels of MSDN license. I have possibly the lowest, the "Operating Systems" level. Higher levels give more and more access to the zillions of M$ programs, and are really appropriate for those who program PCs. For background, my main job is programming the operating system of real (non-PC) computers, making me possibly the only Algol programmer you'll ever meet in your life. I don't have any use for any PC programming facilities, so the company gets me that lower-echelon MSDN license each year.

I need it because I'm responsible for scads of test machines, some on PCs and most in a virtualized cloud. They are for our California and our Indian folks to do testing and some development. Many host special scaled-down versions of our mainframes, primarily for testing, as folks like me do most of our development work on our monster mainframes. But it's nice having the PC-resident mainframe equivalents for development so that a mistake doesn't leave a hundred software engineers staring at their dead terminal emulators on their own desktops.

So I'm constantly building machines due to the need for uncorrupted "virgin" machines, or due to software failures or the inevitable disk crashes in the cloud that can take out multiple virtualized machines. Our most important ones (the ones with mainframe emulations) are backed up daily on a (MSDN-licensed) Windows Home Server machine; most of the others aren't regularly backed up.

The various MSDN OS licenses range for one key, period (although things seem to reset every so often), to one key allowing multiple / unlimited uses, to ten keys for one machine per pop. It seems to be different for each of the varying OS'es such as Windows Home Server or XP 32 bit or Server 2008R2, etc, etc. Some of my MSDN machines have been up for a number of years.

I've never seen anything just black-screen. The machines normally have to be activated, just like retail or OEM versions require, and all seem to have a 30 day (or whatever) grace period before activation is required - very handy for temporary ad-hoc test machines. But the ones we activate, because they're going to be around for a while, seem to run just fine in perpetuity. If I try and activate with a key that's already in use, my recollection is that it is simply rejected and I have to fetch another key from my MSDN allocation. The in-use database seems to clear every so often; this was well-known for XP but seems to be universal from what I can tell.

I wonder if M$ can "pull the plug" from their end on machines that have been activated with keys that they determine to be unsavory in some sense. Presumably the merchant in question fits that description. It would be a logical explanation, but I have absolutely no inside knowledge as to what's really going on with your Thinkpad.

Art

[DOS_equis]

Boy, it's hard to argue with reality; I'm not about to assert that your black screen is imaginary! But here's where I'll present my empirical experience, without trying to pose as a M$ guru.

There are apparently eight levels of MSDN license. I have possibly the lowest, the "Operating Systems" level. Higher levels give more and more access to the zillions of M$ programs, and are really appropriate for those who program PCs. For background, my main job is programming the operating system of real (non-PC) computers, making me possibly the only Algol programmer you'll ever meet in your life. I don't have any use for any PC programming facilities, so the company gets me that lower-echelon MSDN license each year.

I need it because I'm responsible for scads of test machines, some on PCs and most in a virtualized cloud. They are for our California and our Indian folks to do testing and some development. Many host special scaled-down versions of our mainframes, primarily for testing, as folks like me do most of our development work on our monster mainframes. But it's nice having the PC-resident mainframe equivalents for development so that a mistake doesn't leave a hundred software engineers staring at their dead terminal emulators on their own desktops.

So I'm constantly building machines due to the need for uncorrupted "virgin" machines, or due to software failures or the inevitable disk crashes in the cloud that can take out multiple virtualized machines. Our most important ones (the ones with mainframe emulations) are backed up daily on a (MSDN-licensed) Windows Home Server machine; most of the others aren't regularly backed up.

The various MSDN OS licenses range for one key, period (although things seem to reset every so often), to one key allowing multiple / unlimited uses, to ten keys for one machine per pop. It seems to be different for each of the varying OS'es such as Windows Home Server or XP 32 bit or Server 2008R2, etc, etc. Some of my MSDN machines have been up for a number of years.

I've never seen anything just black-screen. The machines normally have to be activated, just like retail or OEM versions require, and all seem to have a 30 day (or whatever) grace period before activation is required - very handy for temporary ad-hoc test machines. But the ones we activate, because they're going to be around for a while, seem to run just fine in perpetuity. If I try and activate with a key that's already in use, my recollection is that it is simply rejected and I have to fetch another key from my MSDN allocation. The in-use database seems to clear every so often; this was well-known for XP but seems to be universal from what I can tell.

I wonder if M$ can "pull the plug" from their end on machines that have been activated with keys that they determine to be unsavory in some sense. Presumably the merchant in question fits that description. It would be a logical explanation, but I have absolutely no inside knowledge as to what's really going on with your Thinkpad.

Art

Thanks for the insight. Algol huh? I never knew the programming language existed so I had to Wiki it to even see what it was about. Looks pretty tough to mess with especially since I have no idea how to write code in anything. You're right, you are probably the only Algol coder that I will ever meet in my whole life, let alone in here.

The black screen happens when MS flags the key you're using as non-genuine. It makes the wallpaper on the desktop change to a solid black color. Then it nags you to death with message boxes that will pop up at every boot or reboot and every 10-30 minutes or so telling you to go online and resolve the non-genuine issue. This doesn't happen during the "fresh install" phase of the operation. Only after MS has found out the key is pirated or "bad" for some reason. MS doesn't have a "real-time" control over this per se. It happens as part of Windows updates. When you get one of the updates that is labeled like Validation tool or some such like that I think they are updating the blacklist, which is run by their validation servers. My machine blacked out after a Windows Update session IIRC. It could have been coincidence but I feel it happened due to the update. This is the main reason when or if you go and buy a notebook used from someone that has a pirated edition of Windows, it will surely have Windows Update completely turned off and usually have some other free anti-virus app since MSE is free only to validated OS installs.

As of right now my Thinkpad is fine on the new key they gave me. I got it resolved quickly so I feel pretty lucky considering everything. They could have easily just ignored my email and that would have been it. I would have no real way to resolve it with them. I could only turn them in to Microsoft by reporting the product as fake and hope they have their operation shut down eventually. I would still have to pay for another license (which is almost as much as a new copy) so I would be out more than if I had bought a real copy outright. If it blacks out again I will probably just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. I wouldn't expect them to honor it again. I will try though but I wouldn't lay money on it for sure.

Thanks for the info.

DOS_equis

[ArtShapiro]

The black screen happens when MS flags the key you're using as non-genuine.

Ahah - I misunderstood the description, and thought Windows was essentially terminating, leaving a blank screen.

I've heard of reduced functionality as a result of Windows updates, so you've clarified it completely.

Well, I guess you can look upon it as a "try & buy" opportunity. If this merchant is flim-flamming substantial numbers of customers, it's a wonder that he remains in business.

Art

[DOS_equis]

Ahah - I misunderstood the description, and thought Windows was essentially terminating, leaving a blank screen.

I've heard of reduced functionality as a result of Windows updates, so you've clarified it completely.

Well, I guess you can look upon it as a "try & buy" opportunity. If this merchant is flim-flamming substantial numbers of customers, it's a wonder that he remains in business.

Art

Yeah that's where I'm at with it now. I'm a guinea pig I guess. I don't think MS wants to completely break the OS because they want to sell you a new key and the easiest way for them to do that is to allow you to have the ability to trot on down to their site and get the number for the activation hot line. If they locked you out you could probably recover your personal files and zero-fill the drive and start over but it would be a PITA to have to do that every month or so.

It looks like they are still around and the front page of the site is full of lies claiming that these are "factory" discs straight from Lenovo and that the discs will put the factor preload on your HDD. They look like they could be discs straight from Lenovo but they are decent quality fakes and/ or the product of someone's imagination. There is no preload part of the install (which creates the hidden service partition). It has a second disc that just has System Update on it which brings your machine up to date with the drivers and apps.


DOS_equis