Low budget thinkpad

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xcountryrower · #1 Post by **xcountryrower** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:52 am

My grandmother is going to be moving into a new house pretty soon and she has asked me to find her a decent notebook for her. Looking at ibm for a while. Are the Celeron D's any good? Can anyone offer a good solid low-budget notebook?

skuehne · #2 Post by **skuehne** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:37 am

I'd say, stay away from the G series, take a look at the R series. But of course, it all depends what your grandma want to do with her ThinkPad.

Sven

Batuta · #3 Post by **Batuta** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:00 pm

Check with granny what she wants to do with that machine.
To be more precise, why bother with a notbook for her the first place?
I assume she is not a "traveling salesman", so a descent Desktop Computer can get her all the bang she'll ever need for her buck for ~$500.-- already.
You pay an awful lot of extra cash in laptops just for the mobillity factor and if your Grandma "just" wants to surf the Internet, then a Desktop would be much better than a laptop.
Also the keyboard and screen are more easily to handle for elderly people on a Desktop than on a laptop.

Otherwise, if she wants to "just" read books or wtahc programs, a used TP770Z might be appropriate.
But for anything involving web surfing and the like, she'll need a Pentium II or better. Also, Windows XP or 2K will require at least 128MB RAM (better 256MB+) and a 30GB hard disk.
Again, that stuff costs you a lot more in a Laptop than in a Desktop.

Also, check what kind of equipment your Grandmother wants to connect.
If she's got USB printers or modems, then you'll need a USB laptop.
Don't go with the older 1.1 versions. You'll need USB 2.x here.
How good are her eyes? High resolution LCD screens tend to have very small print, so a lower rez screen might actually be better for her.
If she wants to play music, you'll need decent speakers on that thing.
Speaker quality in my experience varies between Thinkpad models.
(Desktops on the other hand now come with LCD screens that have built in speakers).

Finally, how good is your Grandma with getting stuff fixed?
Once the warranty runs out on a Thinkpad, it can get very tricky (aka "expensive") to get them repaired if you don't know where to look for the lowest price. IBM's charges here are outrageous!
Once more, a Desktop might be far easier to be repaired if things break.
They use "of the shelf" components.

I know this sounds like anti-Thinkpad bashing, but I once gave an elderly friend of mine one of my Thinkpads, too.
Only fo find out later that those are really not designed with the elderly, "technology challenged" in mind

JHEM · #4 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:10 pm

Batuta wrote:I assume she is not a "traveling salesman", so a descent Desktop Computer can get her all the bang she'll ever need for her buck for ~$500.-- already.

I absolutely agree, having gone through this with both my Mom and MIL, both in their mid-80s. I had set them both up with laptops a few years ago so they could keep in touch with the grandkids, get photos, etc.

They both had problems with the laptops, primarily with the keyboard and the display size. I wound up getting each of them a blowout sale Dell desktop system with a 15" LCD (~$400!) and they're supremely happy with them.

Get granny a desktop!

Regards,

James

jeeva · #5 Post by **jeeva** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:10 pm

Batuta wrote:I know this sounds like anti-Thinkpad bashing, but I once gave an elderly friend of mine one of my Thinkpads, too.
Only fo find out later that those are really not designed with the elderly, "technology challenged" in mind

That sounds like Notebook-Bashing.

But to answer the initial question: the cheapest new notebook I know is the R50e with Celeron 2.4 GHz processor for 1200€ (don't know US Prices) you get a ThinkPad for very low $$$. and a XGA Screen.

I agree with batuta about the convinience of notebooks for elderly people. But also understand that many people want to "hide" the Computer after usage, in a cupboard for example.

I for myself plan to get an additional Desktop for gaming and demanding tasks.

Batuta · #6 Post by **Batuta** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:28 pm

jeeva:

But also understand that many people want to "hide" the Computer after usage, in a cupboard for example.

In that case I'll advise to get a mini PC box (looks like a mini apple workstation, only Intel based) or a "computer and screen in on" unit from e.g. Sony.
A mini-PC box has the same power and easy of use as a regular PC, it just doesn not offer any real expansion space for 3rd or 4th hard disks.
Often they just have space for a single add-on card, so you're pretty much stuck with what's on the motherboard (which usually is plenty).
They can also be had in the same low price range of $500.-- and less as regular PCs, as long as you're happy with doing some assembly yourself (-> eBay, pricewatch.com). But beware, one CD drive is all you get in terms of externally accessible drive bays. They are tiny, thus they have no free space in-side.
The "Monitor and PC in one" solution is the most ergonomic one, but I know only of Sony that you can still buy them at e.g. CompUSA.
Other disadvantage besides sparse variety is that those are definetely more expensive than regular PCs.
Which makes sense, because they use mostly proprietary parts (-> unique design).

jeeva · #7 Post by **jeeva** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:00 pm

I agree with that.

I saw some of these Sony's in local stores (MediaMarkt) But there you again have the problem with the high resolution small screens. Let's wait to the answer from xcountryrower

#8 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:10 pm

>I absolutely agree, having gone through this with both my Mom and MIL, both in their mid-80s. I had set them both up with laptops a few years ago so they could keep in touch with the grandkids, get photos, etc.

They both had problems with the laptops, primarily with the keyboard and the display size. I wound up getting each of them a blowout sale Dell desktop system with a 15" LCD (~$400!) and they're supremely happy with them.

Get granny a desktop!
>

Oh, and I absolutely disagree (OK, you knew I would).

First of all, how old is a Granny? After all, I are one. And so is my sister who is 4 years younger than me. And so is my cousin who is 13 years older than me. And so is my cousin who is 6 years younger than me. And we all love our notebooks! You couldn't pry mine away from me without my fingerprints being embedded in the case.

Granny asked for a notebook and probably has her reasons. What are those reasons? Did she just retire and is planning to do some traveling and wants to stay in touch on the road like one of my retired friends who is in her 70's? She has children and grandchildren around the United States and refers to her travels from one to the other as her Royal Progression. Whenever I e-mail her, I have no idea from where she'll be answering.

He mentioned she's moving. Is she downsizing and doesn't want to take up space with a desktop model? Does she like the idea of sitting in her recliner with her feet up or laying on the couch while she surfs the net and watches TV? Has she used one before and is attached to the form factor?

These are important questions that need to be asked before jumping to the conclusion that Granny doesn't need a notebook. We're not all decrepit regardless of age.

FWIW, I have my nearly 87-year-old father set up with an older TP to do e-mail and a little web surfing. It sits conveniently on his end table where he can pick it up and use it without taking his eye off the ball game of the moment. The screen, keyboard and TrackPoint were never issues. Teaching him to get dialed in and get to what he wanted to look at was a nightmare, though.

asiafish · #9 Post by **asiafish** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:50 pm

Get Granny a Mac!

Much easier to use for the non-tech savvy.

No viruses, spyware or worms.

No other PC config woes, driver conflicts, etc.

It just works, all the time.

Looks great!

eMac and Mac Mini are downright cheap (especially refurb eMac) while iMac looks VERY sharp.

gazingwa · #10 Post by **gazingwa** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:59 pm

and if granny is already an established pc user such as my grandmother who has been running only ibm's since her ps/1 286 2.5mb 30mb win3.1?
2 and a half years ago moved up to a netvista running xp with an 18" flat panel(ibm of course) My uncle worked for IBM (until his untimely death on safari in Africa) and got her pc's as a gift, she has been thinking about a laptop and we would never consider a mac she has been on a pc for 15 years now.

asiafish · #11 Post by **asiafish** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:03 pm

Her loss.

While I use both platforms, I find the Apple clearly superior for the typical "home user" type tasks of email, web browsing, word processing and managing photos from a digital camera.

I still use a PC because I like to play games and watch movies on VERY long flights (twice per year from Los Angeles to Seoul, Korea), two tasks that Apple just falls short on (3 hour battery life doesn't cut it). Most grannies, however, probably don't need 5-hour battery life (I carry two) or want to play Doom 3.

gazingwa · #12 Post by **gazingwa** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:17 pm

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with mac, its just she was given a free pc 15 years ago and she understands pc... i'm not going to teach a 75 year old woman a new way to run a computer, in reality, she should have started on a mac, but then the problem would be nobody in the family knows all that much about them, so when it crashed, and yes MACs crash too, I would be forced to learn mac os not a bad thing but very time consuming

asiafish · #13 Post by **asiafish** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:54 pm

Yes, Macs crash, just like people win the lottery. It is a very rare thing for OS X to crash, but applications do.

There is actually almost nothing to teach. Turn it on, click on the icon for the web browser to browse the web, the mail icon for email, etc. Easier than Windows even for Windows users.

Want to use your digital camera, just plug it in an iPhoto will launch automatically, no drivers to install.

There is nothing to teach, and while you can make a Mac crash, you have to try VERY hard. Finally, and MOST importantly, no virus checker or spyware remover to keep up-to-date or worry about.

gazingwa · #14 Post by **gazingwa** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:28 pm

sorry, I have to do this... hehe....
http://www.tunepix.com/movies/usingmac.wmv
I love this bit caution he has a potty mouth

Batuta · #15 Post by **Batuta** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:17 am

Listen folks, this web site has a clear cut policy against "my opsys is better than yours" fights and I think we should stick to it.
Also, MacOS-X doesn't run on Thinkpad HW anyway and also if that Granny has any PC expansion hardware like printers and the like, then that will most likely not run with Mac systems either.
And no, not all Granny's are alike.
Someone who becomes a Grandmother with e.g. 55 is much more able to get in touch with new technologies then someone of age 70 or above.
We're talking decades in age difference here.
And only someone with little or no sympathy for the technolgoy challenged would make a silly claim such as >there is nothing to learn<.

Even a device as simple as a tri-cycle has a learning curve and yes there are people who can't even learn that one properly.

asiafish · #16 Post by **asiafish** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:41 am

Batuta, you clearly show your ignorance of the Mac platform. Almost all semi-modern printers and other peripherals for PCs work on Mac as well, usually WITHOUT the need to install drivers.

gazingwa · #17 Post by **gazingwa** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:36 pm

Asiafish.... GET A FRIGGEN GRIP
Nobody (except the vid i posted) is bashing MAC, they are just saying some people are more comfortable with a pc.... I believe mac is a great os.... but i have no reason to use it. The original question was a low budget notebook and we asked some discovery questions that weren't answered, you can't go and suggest something without knowing it's intended use.

thats like asking what car to get, someone saying get an audi a4, then finding out they are a contractor and need a 3/4 ton truck. We have no clue what they want from this machine..... A mac might work.... but it might be out of the question based on comfort with pc, and available applications... we just don't know.

asiafish · #18 Post by **asiafish** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:44 pm

The user is a grandma, which especialyy since someone else is seeking her computer suggests a level of computer-ignorance, and for that type of user Macs are far superior.

I think if granny was an experienced PC user she would just buy the thing herself. FOr a non-expert user, Mac is vastly superior as any learning curve associate with clicking an icon in the dock instead of the start menu is quickly overcome by the TOTAL lack of viruses and spyware and the required software to deal with them.

gazingwa · #19 Post by **gazingwa** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:46 pm

thats it.... I'm done feeding this one, we have an evangelist here....

#20 Post by **JaneL** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:03 pm

>The user is a grandma, which especialyy since someone else is seeking her computer suggests a level of computer-ignorance
>

OK, well now you're just being insulting to all us grandmas. Don't make me come over there. ;-)

>I think if granny was an experienced PC user she would just buy the thing herself.
>

An experienced PC user does not always equate to an experienced PC buyer. I've had many users in the past who were whizzes at *using* a PC, but their eyes glazed over if you mentioned any details about the equipment itself. Not every user is as fascinated by this stuff as most of the people in this forum are. They still know what their needs are and what they like re things like keyboard layout, screen size and form factor, though.

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