New sony SA vs T420s - I think I am jumping ship

[Nubulin]

I've been looking hard at a new T420s to replace my trusted T500, but I just can't get that excited about it. The quality of ThinkPad screens just seems to get worse and worse with each "new and improved" model. Not to mention the NVS4200M is a weak switchable graphics solution. I do love Thinkpads plain look, solid construction, and the bay battery option, but I miss the old days when ThinkPad was well ahead of everyone else in design and features.

The just released Sony SA seems like a better option for similar cost. Smaller footprint, lighter, almost certainly better screen, faster graphics, slice battery for "15 hour" endurance, etc, etc.

Is the SA a better choice? What am I missing here? I am looking for a laptop on the upper end of performance, with fast switchable graphics option, nice high resolution screen, 5+ hour battery life, and on the smaller/lighter end of the "thin and light" specturm. What do you think?

[blackomegax]

The 420's 1600x900 screen is 'fine'. it's a hell of a lot better than the X200, T60, and T400 screens ive seen. The W520 FHD screen is supposedly pretty [censored] good too, and that nets you a 96 core fermi GPU

4200m is plenty fast. Runs everything i've thrown at it, just not at 1080p with 8x AA and ultramax settings like modern real cards can do.
but, 720p with Xbox or ps2 equivilant settings? perfect.

[wkearney99]

That and VAIOs tend to have royally screwed up drivers, especially if/when you upgrade (or change) the OS to something Sony isn't keeping up with. That and even with great care the VAIO laptops tend to get beat up looking much too fast. Just don't get a silver colored one unless you want to see scratches quickly. Oh and one more thing, check the touchpad buttons. The darned things ARE WAY TOO LOUD! Seriously, banging a pair of castanets almost seems quieter. That alone made me immediately reject the latest ones.

And, really, how good does the screen "need" to be for most situations? Sure, for a photographer or someone doing critical color work it'll matter. But day to day? I'm not saying you shouldn't get what you want, but think twice about it. Try seeing one in person, displaying the material you'd be using. Then decide.

The upside is Sony is a lot more committed to keeping a docking port on their laptops. I hate plugging cables in all the time (power, local KVM, network, etc). That also cut a lot of machines/brands out of the running.

So check the view from the frying pan before you jump into that fire...

[automobus]

That and VAIOs tend to have royally screwed up drivers, especially if/when you upgrade (or change) the OS to something Sony isn't keeping up with.

Having used two VAIO laptops and two desktops, I can attest that their drivers are very "delicate" and restricted. Even worse, in my opinion, is how they guard service info and spare parts.
That been said, I admire several VAIO designs and their claims of material sustainability. However, the non-repairable design completely negates the positives.

[canfraggle]

I went from a T400s to a Sony Z series, which is the precursor to the SA series and now I am back to a T420s. The Sony has a fantastic spec, excellent speed and responsiveness and the screen is absolutely to die for. BUT ... the keyboard is absolutely worthless and and build quality is miserable, especially considering the Z series is meant to be their top-of-the-line. The keyboard and build is just so bad, I find it hard to recommend. My main beef with build quality is that the screen hinge is so delicate, it's started to loosen and wobble as I type. It's not just an issue of hinge tightness, the hinge and the screen are separating as well!

Let's hope they make a T420s with an IPS screen for the love of .. :'(

[Vempele]

Completely agree with you on the Z's keyboard. All of their other laptops seem to have decent keyboards, though - I think I even tried the S-series.

[Nubulin]

Some good points here. I certainly prefer Lenovo for many of the reasons you all do.

Can anyone give a good review and pics of a T420s screen? There are no places to look at it myself where i live. The only reviews I have seen are pretty poor. True a person can get by with a poor screen, but why when there are choices?

I wish Lenovo had backlit keyboards!

[sir_synthsalot]

The X220 has the IPS, the T520 has the FHD, it's too bad the T420 doesn't have a high end option.

[ZaZ]

The 14" T series notebook LCDs have always been terrible. I never understood why this is news to people. If anything you could argue the new screens are better cause at least they're brighter. The ones from Dell and HP, Thinkpad's main competitors, are just as bad.

[Colonel O'Neill]

I thought the T400 Samsung screen was nice for regular work after being properly calibrated. Color accuracy was a whole different boat.

I saw a T420s screen a while ago; it wasn't that bad by itself, but in side-by-side comparison, it was visibly off-color. Didn't look close enough to see if there was a screen door effect though.

[ThinkRob]

Have fun.

We'll still be here when you change your mind after your first encounter with Sony support.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Have fun.

We'll still be here when you change your mind after your first encounter with Sony support.

Heh. SONY wanted to restore the preload on a laptop for a loose AC jack.

[arc888]

I've just ordered a T420s to replace my X301 which is just that little bit too slow these days (I've got the HDD version). If the screen is better than the one on my X301 I'll be happy.

[sanjuro]

I've just ordered a T420s to replace my X301 which is just that little bit too slow these days (I've got the HDD version). If the screen is better than the one on my X301 I'll be happy.

Getting a decently sized SSD would have been nice though pricey upgrade. Let us know how your experience with T420s compares with X301.

[synchromesh]

Thinkpads are far more durable, serviceable and better-built all-around. There is more to a laptop than pure specs meaning Sony would be lower on my list than even Acer or Toshiba. I've taken a few apart and the design is horrible. Service is a huge pain. I remember a P3 Sony that looked all nice and cuddly but when i took it apart it had a very fragile touchpad cable that stopped working after about 3 removals. Had to chase down another one which wasn't easy. Another story was with a friend buying a brand new P4M-based one during school. A $2000 machine disintegrated in less than 2 years. He did beat it up quite a bit but his next purchase was an X41T (mostly on my insistence) and that thing lasted him about 4 years. When I sold it on Cl last year it was beat up but fully working. It went through clinical death a couple of times but was successfully resurrected by myself and another friend and kept working on mostly original components. Now that's quality.

[Bánh mì]

You are not goint to get frequent driver and software updates nor a robust and well engineered set of tools as you would with Lenovo Thinkpads. Moreover, Sony's are not as upgradeable as Thinkpads in terms of user replaceable parts. Sony's look nice and some may say are chic but Thinkpads are much more reliable. How many Fortune 500 companies do you know which equip their global workforce with Sonys?

[Nubulin]

All good points. I certainly have had good luck with ThinkPads over the years. We have also had some Sonys in my office and they all performed fine without any doomsday type events. I agree that for a "real" business tool, the ThinkPad is better if you can stand the complete garbage screens they choose.

I guess I need some solid unbiased reviews of the screen that are favorable. Everything so far is "poor". How does it compare with the X301 screen? That was so horrible I sold it within the first month. My X200s got returned to Lenovo within a week for the same problem.

[pianowizard]

We have also had some Sonys in my office and they all performed fine without any doomsday type events.

I don't know why so many people on this forum claim that Sony Vaios are unreliable. If you look at large-scale surveys/studies from the past several years, you will see that the Vaios consistently score very high, even higher than the Thinkpads. That said, I suspect that one of the reasons the Vaios are so reliable is that they are relatively expensive and so people handle them more carefully than they would handle an el-cheapo Compaq or Acer or Dell Inspiron.

If you don't like Thinkpad screens, I strongly recommend you to look into getting a Vaio. The screen is the most important part of a laptop, by far.

[arc888]

Got my t420s (i5 2.6 integrated graphics) today so here are some quick thoughts. The screen is definitely better than the one I have on my x301 - I don't have any problem with it all except for the aspect ratio itself! As others have commented, there is a bit of play in the optical drive i.e. it jiggles around a bit. I was more disappointed at some of the cosmetic blemishes that my unit had out of the box caused (I assume) by rough handling during the manufacturing process. I have a slight depression in one of the speaker grills and the sticker containing the status lights on the bottom of the display had not been aligned correctly with the channel its supposed to sit in. I had to get a blade and trim a couple of millimetres off the end so that sat flat.

Seems fairly quiet. Haven't bothered to install TPFC yet. The two-finger scrolling did not work reliably at all. I installed TwoFingerScroll as a workaround and it's better - not as good as the Mac though.

More thoughts after I do some real work on it.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Might want to ask for replacement of the damaged parts.

Also, which company made your screen? Supposedly the AU Optronics ones are griddy, whereas the Samsung ones are better.

[arc888]

Also, which company made your screen? Supposedly the AU Optronics ones are griddy, whereas the Samsung ones are better.

Which utility lets me find out?

[Colonel O'Neill]

MonInfo, EVEREST, and some other tools can identify it.

[arc888]

Also, which company made your screen? Supposedly the AU Optronics ones are griddy, whereas the Samsung ones are better.

Mine appears to be made by LG.

Monitor
Windows description...... Generic PnP Monitor
Manufacturer............. LG Display
Plug and Play ID......... LGD02E2
Data string.............. LP140WD2-TLB1
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2010, ISO week 0
Filter driver............ None
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 310 x 170 mm (13.9 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... None