Upgrade W520 with an IPS screen? Or get M4600 instead?

[penartur]

My sister needs a new laptop to do her photo/video/architecture jobs; the requirements are sandy bridge, quadro gpu and the screen with a relatively accurate color representation.
At the first, i advised her to get a FHD/Quad-Core/1000M W520 (e.g. 427637U, which can be purchased for about $1500-1600). However, it seems that Dell Precision Mobile workstations have an IPS options, with the plain FHD/Quad-Core/1000M configuration of M4600 starting at $1743 and IPS being $370 extra, while the only FHD option on M6600 being "wide-view" and making it with Quad-Core/3000M an expensive $2224.
I heard that W520's FHD screen is quite acceptable for color-sensitive applications; however that PremierColor IPS screen dell offers is supposed to be better, isn't it?
Currently we are choosing between FHD W520 for $1550, IPS FHD M4600 for $1743 and the bulky yet high-performance IPS M6600 for $2224. The drawbacks of Dells are the price and that i believe that thinkpads are more reliable (and i also have to look through dell warranty options to check whether they offer a true international warranty like lenovo does).
However, it looks like plain TN FHD screen in M4600 is the same as FHD screen in W520; so it is possible that IPS FHD screen in M4600 is compatible with one in W520, and one can purchase W520 and replace its lcd panel with an IPS FHD one designed for M4600. Has anyone investigated this route?

[davidhbrown]

Just a thought... depending on what video software she's using (and how often), she might benefit from something better than the 1000M. For example, Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 added a bunch of notebook cards to their CUDA-accelerated list, but not the 1000M.

Doesn't really matter for Photoshop; don't know about CAD (architecture).

[penartur]

Just a thought... depending on what video software she's using (and how often), she might benefit from something better than the 1000M. For example, Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 added a bunch of notebook cards to their CUDA-accelerated list, but not the 1000M.

Doesn't really matter for Photoshop; don't know about CAD (architecture).

Thanks for the advice, i'll ask her about that.
The requirements are primarily gathered by me, because the original requirements were too weird. For example, she were advised that CPU should be i5 or i7, preferrably i7; that was corrected to "sandy-bridge preferrably quad-core" by me

[davidhbrown]

Another thought... you're talking both about wanting to have the international warranty and replacing the screen with an IPS LCD that Lenovo doesn't offer. Lenovo techs who have come out to work on my computer certainly never batted an eye at non-Lenovo RAM and HDDs, but swapping in a non-supported screen could be a different issue -- especially if you had to do a depot repair. Could be setting your sister up for hassles. (You can find threads on this board about the practicality and issues of doing the swap.)

[commander]

Hi, replacing the screen is not a good idea IMO. You will void the warranty on a $2k machine, you will have trouble with fittings and supply of that IPS screen. You also have to check datasheets of that screens, if they are 6/8/10 bit etc. It is not that easy like exchange your external LCD

Personally, if I had the budget, I will go M6600. For me, FHD resolution is too much for 15", and these 16:9 screens are quite small anyway. FHD looks relatively good on 17.3". With M6600 you also get serious cooling, which should handle your system at 100% performance (W520 or probably any 15" single-cooling system can't). Then, you can put one more HDD inside, you got a numberpad...

Good luck with your decision.

[penartur]

Ahem, my X200 with a replaced unsupported AFFS screen died due to motherboard flaw, and was fixed by lenovo without any questions. Also, i was told by lenovo rep. that the warranty voids only in case issue was caused either by unsupported FRU or by unqualified replacement. In case issue is caused by lenovo fault, warranty is valid (in what has to do with said issue) no matter what user has done to laptop.
So i guess the only question is whether W520 is physically and electrically compatible with IPS FHD screen; i was hoping that someone out there already did some research on that matter...

Personally, if I had the budget, I will go M6600. For me, FHD resolution is too much for 15", and these 16:9 screens are quite small anyway. FHD looks relatively good on 17.3". With M6600 you also get serious cooling, which should handle your system at 100% performance (W520 or probably any 15" single-cooling system can't). Then, you can put one more HDD inside, you got a numberpad...

We consider that option; but M6600 is dell and too bulky. W520 also supports two HDDs with its ultrabay; and numberpad doesn't matter.
Is the cooling system of W520 that bad? I never saw any of reviews mentioning that issue.

[pianowizard]

The HP EliteBook 8560w also has 15.6" FHD IPS, which they refer to as "DreamColor". It's quite heavy though, "starting at 6.69 lb".

[penartur]

The HP EliteBook 8560w also has 15.6" FHD IPS, which they refer to as "DreamColor". It's quite heavy though, "starting at 6.69 lb".

Yes, the weight was one of the reasons we didn't consider an HP.

[commander]

It seems that you made your decision already, so go Lenovo
It is hard to say about the compatibility, since only a few people received their M4600 already.
The cooling cannot handle bot CPU and GPU stressed at max at the same time. If this is an issue depend on what usage you running.

[penartur]

It seems that you made your decision already, so go Lenovo

It is a hard decision; the problem with lenovo is that the screen is really important, and also M6600 GPUs are so powerful (yet expensive), so i have a hard time weighting odds and cons...

The cooling cannot handle bot CPU and GPU stressed at max at the same time. If this is an issue depend on what usage you running.

So will it overheat and throttle when both CPU and GPU are stressed at max? Or will the fan sound too loud? Or will it just shut down?
I never heard of such problems with W520, that's why i'm asking.

[commander]

At my testing the CPU throttle down to 800 Mhz, GPU stays at max frequency.

If I stress CPU/GPU separately, it is OK (only loud). It is a common thing, many people addressed this on lenovo forums. It seems that most of people is running optimus and many powersavings options, and not stressing the machine at max. I am using my Lenovo as my only computer - workstation, so I have everything on max all the time. The M6600 has two separate heatsinks and two fans, so each fan can cool its device (CPU/GPU). But yes, it is big and heavy.

I know it is a tough decision It depends on your priorities... When I was buying, the sandy-bridged dells were not available, so my decision was easy. But I would love to have 17" Lenovo sandy bridge... Sad they dropped it.

BTW the argument "it is dell" is not valid I think. As I love Lenovo brand the most, I think that DELL is very good manufacturer (lets say with lenovo the only "considerable" manufacturer). On W520 there some problems you would not expect on a premium-brand flagship already, so it is not necessary to put more value than needed on its quality.

About the bulkiness - my bag with W520 is 6 kg heavy. That is too much in my opinion for daily "walking", but it is fine if you are at home>car>office. And a car can handle the extra dell weight . But if you are walking/going by public transport then you will probably be very uncomfortable with 17".

[penartur]

I was just told that she'll be using the latest (=CS5.5) Adobe Premiere and After Effects, and also some "Cinema 4D" stuff and 3ds max.
It seems that 3ds max supports CUDA acceleration on virtually every GPU with CUDA (including NVS 4200M), while CS5.5 only supports Quadro 2000M (though there are manuals on the internet on enabling CS5.5 to support other GPUs, including 1000M). BTW i guess it will push both CPU and GPU hard at the same time.
So now there is another question: how big is the difference in CUDA (CS5.5, 3ds max) between 4200M, 1000M, 2000M, 3000M and 4000M (that is, whether the performance gain worth the extra price). Maybe, i don't know, 4000M is like 10x faster than 3000M, but the only thing it improves is some 1-second-long rarely used operation, so the 10x GPU performance gain doesn't matter for that purpose. I'm not into all that stuff, i'm just a software developer who happened to be satisfied with his Core 2 Duo SL9400 CPU and integrated GPU equipped X200s

About the bulkiness - my bag with W520 is 6 kg heavy.

OMG, that's 4x X200s heavy
Do you carry the power brick in this bag? Bare W520 is <3kg...

[commander]

that is, whether the performance gain worth the extra price

that depends on how much your sister values her time... If she is a professional, her equipment should be mirrored on her earnings and must be paid by her work. Benchmarks and specs of these cards are available, just try google or nvidia website. Of course there are better and more expensive, it is the same as CPU market.
My very personal opinion is, that if she had to ask about this, she PROBABLY don't need hi-end performance. What she is running now and how she is satisfied?

OMG, that's 4x X200s heavy
Do you carry the power brick in this bag? Bare W520 is <3kg...

Yes, W520 is 2.6 kg, brick is 0.7, bag is around 1 kg, some mice, papers, cables and here we are. And my W520 has 6-cell, the standard 9-cell battery is even heavier. And the bag is made from polyester, my previous bag was leather and thats even more...

[davidhbrown]

[...]how big is the difference in CUDA (CS5.5, 3ds max) between 4200M, 1000M, 2000M, 3000M and 4000M (that is, whether the performance gain worth the extra price). [...]

If you're going to be using Premiere CS5.5 on a W520, get the 2000M, no doubt. I mentioned recently that the CUDA acceleration with CS 5.5 vs CS 5 on the same i7-2820QM W520 gave me a speedup from about 2.2x realtime to 0.86x realtime on a really simple encoding. I expect that the more accelerated filters applied (I was using one), the better it would perform up to some point. And then there's the efficiency in use you get when the video doesn't stutter as you use the jog wheel, the smooth playback, etc.

Even if your sister is working on the cheap for nonprofits or something, the $250 bump to get the 2000M should be less than a day's billable time.

[eulers1729]

The Dell Precision m4600's IPS screen does not support Optimus, so your faced with the issue of long lasting battery life (intel integrated graphics) and short battery life (pure nVidia GPU).

[Volker]

The Dell Precision m4600's IPS screen does not support Optimus

That would be an advantage in my book. Though you can switch it off on the W520, too

[Son of FE]

Hello.
I'm new to this forum, but I
am also interested in the w520 vs m4600.
From what I've read posted on other sites, the reason Lenovo didn't put an IPS screen on the 520 is because Optimus will not work with 10 bit color displays like the IPS on Dell and HP Dreamcolor. Apparently, Optimus only works in 8 bit color so far, and it seems that Lenovo's display is already good enough for color correct applications and they didn'want to sacrifice the great battery life.
So, I don't think you can install an IPS screen on the 520.