Is this normal ghosting for a T42p flexview display?

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benlm · #1 Post by **benlm** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:30 am

Is this normal ghosting/shadowing for a T42p flexview display? I've read on these boards a few people talk about seeing something similar but other people rave about how great the Flexview is. I can't believe a flaw this serious is not noticed by more people.

Here's the link to the image:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ben_morga ... CBHqlHOz29

#2 Post by **daeojkim** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:41 am

That ghosting is definitely something wrong with it.

May be something is wrong with the cable.

Kenn · #3 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:53 am

Actually, that blooming is definitely normal behavior for all LCDs, but it is VERY visible on the 15" flexview as opposed to the 14". However, "very visible" is relative, and I can only notice it when I have the "right" colors overlapping each other, usually on flat, single-color backgrounds. I posted the following picture about it a while ago:

http://www.pbase.com/kenn/image/39752599.jpg

You were able to get a much better picture than I was able to take. But I did notice that it's almost impossible to live-capture the effect while using the live preview on a digicam because pointing the camera at high-contrast edges causes the same artifacts to appear on the camera's LCD - so you can't tell if you're seeing the blooming from the monitor or from the camera's LCD

benlm · #4 Post by **benlm** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:56 am

BTW, that's the 15" 1400x1050 FlexView with the ATI Radeon 9600.

#5 Post by **daeojkim** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:07 am

Kenn,

You are right I see it when I have the background in the default blue color. I did not see it when I posted previous post when I had my back ground black. It was almost unnoticeable.

When I have the background in black I can't see it.

Kenn · #6 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:49 am

daeojkim wrote:Kenn,

You are right I see it when I have the background in the default blue color. I did not see it when I posted previous post when I had my back ground black. It was almost unnoticeable.

When I have the background in black I can't see it.

Yeah, the picture I took was against a black background, and it is very difficult to see. My normal background is blue and it's much more visible. I should update the image, but the OP's picture illustrates the effect perfectly.

benlm · #7 Post by **benlm** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:53 am

I have an 8 year old NEC Versa and the LCD display on that doesn't have this kind of problem at all.

As far as I can see, the FlexView is one giant leap backwards in LCD display technology. It should never have been let out of the lab.

IR0NMAN · #8 Post by **IR0NMAN** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:43 pm

Wow, i'm glad I got the 14' SXGA+.. I could never be happy with a LCD like that... on a 2000$US+ laptop ....

Kenn · #9 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:53 pm

From the "it's really not bad" department, literally it's hardly noticeable. This is the second time someone's ever brought it up here since the T42 came out, and the picture is a *VERY* good capture of a worst-case scenario you'd never see.

I bet that virtually nobody here would sit in front of a flexview screen and notice it without knowing/looking for it. And when pointed out, half the people still wouldn't see it and the other half would call it nitpicking to the extreme. How do I know? The effect is visible on ALL LCD displays under the right circumstances, and if you don't see it on an 8-YO Versa (hey, if that's 1997 I might have had the very same model) then chances are you won't see it on the T42.

IR0NMAN · #10 Post by **IR0NMAN** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:02 pm

Still.. I have seen hundred of different laptop model and never saw any noticeable ghosting... anyway, it's funny how IBM owns some of the fastest world's supercomputer and can't come up with a decent LCD screen

benlm · #11 Post by **benlm** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:15 am

Unfortunately, with a dark background, it's hard *not* to notice, especially when you're opening and closing windows or moving them around. If anything, it is less noticeable in the photo than live.

I looked at recent notebooks from Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, non-flexview IBM, Apple and set the same dark blue background color and NONE of them exhibit any noticeable lighter patches above and below windows, and that is with a close examination for this very flaw.

Maybe the Thinkpad in question has it worse than normal. I really can't believe so few others have complained unless everyone is so used to buggy software they put up with anything these days.

Anyhow, I'm switching to a 14"... The rest of the computer is great!

wn0x · #12 Post by **wn0x** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:19 pm

I noticed this the first evening on a 2379DXU I ordered with the 15" 1400X1050 flexview display.

Conmee · #13 Post by **Conmee** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:59 pm

This looks like the same ghosting/shadowing I noticed on both my T42p systems I evaluated. It generally comes up in high contrast situations where there is a white or bright box/section of the screen surrounded by a darker color... blues/purples/greens/blacks. Go to webmail.att.net where the login box is white but the remainder of the screen is AT&T's default blue and it's quite evident. And I should mention that this is behavior to the Flexview screens I've tested, whereas the non-Flexviews don't exhibit this. Of course, my non-Flexview Samsung screen in my T42p suffers from some lighter colors washing out toward the bottom of the screen and it doesn't do so well in the contrast department when two light colors are side-by-side (as an example, the white borders between threads on this forum are much more pronounced and visible on a Flexview, but nearly washes out on non-Flexview unless I tilt the screen way way back. lol

As for people 'looking' for it... There's no way someone can't see the anomaly mentioned above... it sticks out like a sore thumb, especially on the 15" SXGA+ Flexviews. Only folks with the powerful IBM rose-colored glasses on can fail to see it. lol The only silver lining to this is that the color saturation and viewing angles are far superior on the Flexview, and that depending on your background you choose, most often you won't see this ghosting occur because the high contrast situations are when it's most visible.

Daniel.

#14 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:00 pm

I will be sure to look for this on my friend's 15" SXGA+ FlexView if I get a chance. The FlexView colors and viewing angle blow away my XGA panel though

My biggest problem with the FlexView displays is that they drive up power consumption like crazy.

If the ghosting bugs you, get the 14" SXGA+!

Higher DPI, but lighter, same desktop area, and less taxing on the battery!

Conmee wrote: As for people 'looking' for it... There's no way someone can't see the anomaly mentioned above... it sticks out like a sore thumb, especially on the 15" SXGA+ Flexviews. Only folks with the powerful IBM rose-colored glasses on can fail to see it. lol The only silver lining to this is that the color saturation and viewing angles are far superior on the Flexview, and that depending on your background you choose, most often you won't see this ghosting occur because the high contrast situations are when it's most visible.

Kenn · #15 Post by **Kenn** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:08 pm

Conmee wrote:
As for people 'looking' for it... There's no way someone can't see the anomaly mentioned above... it sticks out like a sore thumb, especially on the 15" SXGA+ Flexviews. Only folks with the powerful IBM rose-colored glasses on can fail to see it.

It's more noticeable for "windowed-mode" users since they're more likely to resize/drag windows around, and when you do that, the movement of the ghosting following the window becomes much more visible. For most people run full-screen, which as you said hides the behavior in most screen environments that aren't wacky on the contrast.

darrenf · #16 Post by **darrenf** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:33 pm

To address the original question, this is not the ghosting that has been discussed with regard to the FlexView screens. If you're familiar with NTSC video, ghosting looks like someone reversed the A and B fields of every frame.

The effect is seen when an object is in motion. It leaves a ghost image for an extra 1/60th of a second or so. The faster an object is moving, the larger the shadow that it leaves.

I have 19" desktop FlexView screens which are beautiful except for this effect. It makes gaming difficult and mildly sickening, but it is usable (and gorgeous for non-gaming work).

-darren

Is this normal ghosting for a T42p flexview display?

Is this normal ghosting for a T42p flexview display?

that's the 15" 1400x1050 FlexView

a giant leap backwards

hard not to notice

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