cloning problem

[taichi]

Is there a workaround for this cloning problem with a T60P? Unlike every other computer I've owned there is apparently some restrictions on cloning. I'm running Vista 32, and never upgraded to service pack two. Support for service pack one ends in July.

According to the manufacturer of the cloning enclosure that I used previously without problem, in order to do a backup clone before applying service pack two, I have to first disable the security chip and change another setting in the BIOS, then put my source drive in the external enclosure, and what was to be my backup drive into the ThinkPad. Then I have to clone from the enclosure to the backup drive now installed in the ThinkPad. Finally, I have to swap out the drives again.

Is there any better solution than this?.

Help!

[drs]

Have you tried running a linux live cd, and using dd to clone the drive?

[taichi]

[quote="drs"]Have you tried running a linux live cd, and using dd to clone the drive?[/quote]

I must admit that I am Linux ignorant, in that I have never installed it or run it on any machine, nor am I familiar with DD. I'm all ears, though!

I'm happy that a possible workaround exists.

Do you know if Microsoft for certain will discontinue support for service pack one in July?

Thanks for responding.

[Brad]

I know of no cloning restriction on any ThinkPad with any OS.

What you describe with the target and source drive positions is the procedure that I have found which works.

Brad

[taichi]

[quote="Brad"]I know of no cloning restriction on any ThinkPad with any OS.

What you describe with the target and source drive positions is the procedure that I have found which works.

Brad[/quote]

With my A21P I successfully used my Apricorn Easy GIG II enclosure to make clones from my main hard drive, to the backup in the enclosure. But the technician from Apricorn told me that with the later ThinkPads there is a problem. He directed me to this page:
http://www.apricorn.com/faqs.php?id=39&family=t
I originally called him because there is apparently an oddity when cloning Vista, which requires the use of the Vista OS Disk after the cloning procedure.

This double swap discouraged me because I just don't like hardware procedures. Swapping the drive in the original Easy GIG I was nightmarish for me. The II enclosure is more straightforward, but still...I stay out of the kitchen.

He knew that I had the Easy GIG II, and a T60P running Vista 32, but he directed me to the document entitled Drivewire. If you look under the definition of Drivewire it includes mention of the Easy GIG III.

Confused.

[drs]

It's very easy. Download Ubuntu Linux and burn the iso to a cd. Connect the new drive via a USB-> SATA converter, boot the computer with the new cd in the drive, and follow the instructions to run from the cd. Then, open up a terminal and type

Code: Select all

sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdc

Then go have a cup of coffee as it can take a while.

Here's more complete explanation: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/19141/cl ... u-live-cd/

[taichi]

[quote="drs"]It's very easy. Download [url=http://www.ubuntu.com/download]Ubuntu Linux[/url] and burn the iso to a cd. Connect the new drive via a [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product]USB-> SATA converter[/url], boot the computer with the new cd in the drive, and follow the instructions to run from the cd. Then, open up a terminal and type
[code]sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdc[/code]
Then go have a cup of coffee as it can take a while.

Here's more complete explanation: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/19141/cl ... u-live-cd/[/quote]

I went to the Ubuntu site that you provided a link for, and I don't see a pure download.. It says download and install.

Also, it says that it's possible to install Ubuntu onto Windows. Could one run it inside of Windows and still do the clone using DD?

I've never used command lines before.

Thanks

[bill bolton]

But the technician from Apricorn told me that with the later ThinkPads there is a problem.

There may well be for Apricorn specifically, but I can confirm that Acronis True Image would clone drives easily with a wide range of external hardware on a T60 under XP, Vista and Win 7 with no problems.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[taichi]

[quote="bill bolton"][quote="taichi"]But the technician from Apricorn told me that with the later ThinkPads there is a problem.[/quote]
There may well be for Apricorn [i]specifically[/i], but I can confirm that Acronis True Image would clone drives easily with a wide range of external hardware on a T60 under XP, Vista and Win 7 with no problems.

Cheers,

Bill B.[/quote]

Weirdly, the EZ Gig II software is a version of Acronis TI, version 9, I believe. That's what the tech told me.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[drs]

I went to the Ubuntu site that you provided a link for, and I don't see a pure download.. It says download and install.

It's the same link. You download the iso file, burn it to a cd, and reboot the computer with it in the drive. It will then give you the option to run it as a live cd (which is what you want), or to install. That's why I said to follow the instruction on the screen.

[taichi]

[quote="drs"][quote="taichi"]I went to the Ubuntu site that you provided a link for, and I don't see a pure download.. It says download and install.[/quote]

It's the same link. You download the iso file, burn it to a cd, and reboot the computer with it in the drive. It will then give you the option to run it as a live cd (which is what you want), or to install. That's why I said to follow the instruction on the screen.[/quote]

I may have to utilize your method, and I appreciate your information. I hope, though, that the suggestion above that Acronis will allow internal drive to external cloning. That would be ideal if it would work.

As I mentioned, Easy GIG II software is Acronis (they changed to a different program since then), and the tech at Apricorn said some people have had success cloning to an external enclosure.

[taichi]

I'm still puzzled why the fellow at Apricorn insisted that the clone go from the source drive installed in an external enclosure, to the new (backup) drive in the ThinkPad. I'm also confused why he referred me to the FAQ under Drivewire, as Drivewire is technically EZGig III.

Anyway, I downloaded EZGig II, which also downloads as an iso file, to be burned to disc. In the manual it again talks about cloning from an enclosure to the computer. This is the opposite of what I always did with the A21P, when I routinely backup/cloned the internal drive to the enclosure drive. Quite confusing.

At any rate, I did as suggested above and downloaded Ubuntu as an iso, and then burned it onto a CD. Is DD, referred to in an earlier post, a native disk duplicating program within Ubuntu? Is the reason for running Ubuntu from the CD because it runs beneath whatever bios restrictions might exist in the ThinkPad Windows OS? You would think that the ISO of EZGig II would also well below the bios restrictions, as it too appears to run off the disc.

[tim S]

Wow that's a lot of work, switching to Linux just to do a drive copy!
Download EASEUS todo drive copy. It's free. So simple to use, works on
my Win7 and XP. Don't have, won't ever have Vista but it should be just fine.

Tim S

[taichi]

I checked out EASEUS todo drive copy, and it seems to produce an image rather than a clone. I would rather have a clone.

Is there anyone on the forum with the T60P running Vista ultimate 32 who has successfully cloned their internal drive to an external USB enclosure drive? I never thought it was a problem, based on my experience with my A21P, but my conversation with the technician made me unsure, particularly as he brought up the issue of some kind of security block. I have never attempted making a clone since I've had this machine.

By the way, I notice (after downloading EZGig II) that I already have EZGig II installed on my ThinkPad.

Thanks for all the assistance thus far, and for the suggestion of EASEUS todo drive copy.

[bill bolton]

Is there anyone on the forum with the T60P running Vista ultimate 32 who has successfully cloned their internal drive to an external USB enclosure drive?

Well I have a T60, not a T60P, but that is irrelevant in terms of cloning. I had no problem at all doing that with Acronis TI versions 9 or 10.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[taichi]

[quote="bill bolton"][quote="taichi"]Is there anyone on the forum with the T60P running Vista ultimate 32 who has successfully cloned their internal drive to an external USB enclosure drive?[/quote]
Well I have a T60, not a T60P, but that is irrelevant in terms of cloning. I had no problem at all doing that with Acronis TI versions 9 or 10.

Cheers,

Bill B.[/quote]

That's promising information. Thanks. And you didn't have to disable the security chip in the bios, I take it.

I was told EZ Gig II is Acronis 9, so I'll try it the old way, from internal to external. If that doesn't work, I'll try the Ubuntu Live and DD route, though no info yet on whether DD is a Linux compliant app within Ubuntu.

Are you running Vista, Bill?

What does anybody think of handling a bare drive with latex gloves rather than an anti-static bracelet?

Thanks

[drs]

dd is part of *nix userland. It is standard on all Linux installs unless it was purposely removed. It has to be run from the cd because it copies the drive byte by byte and thus needs for the disk to be unmounted.

I have used it to clone drives on both a T60 and an X61, though both running XP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix)
http://www.manpagez.com/man/1/dd/

[nfotis]

As I noted in another thread:

I did the upgrade myself and it was painless (just a bit slow) to a WD Scorpio Black 500 GB:

Got a USB drive enclosure off Ebay, I put the WD drive in it and then downloaded and installed the Acronis True Image from the WD site (free) - it will not be installed if the WD disk is not present.

Then I created a bootable CD of Acronis and read the PDF with the instructions.
Shut down the T60.

Then, I swapped the original disk with the WD, and booted from the Acronis CD.
It gave me various options in cloning the original drive (keeping original partition size, or resize partitions, etc.).
The format/cloning process took nearly 2 hours (it seems they do also a full format).

Hope this helps.

N.F.

[Neil]

I have never attempted making a clone since I've had this machine.

Why don't you just ignore what the tech told you, and try cloning the way you have done it before. See what happens. It might just work exactly like you expect. If it doesn't, try some of the suggestions given here. The practice of putting the target drive in the ThinkPad just seems to help with getting the MBR right. Not every time, but sometimes, having the target drive in a external enclosure will make a disc with a near clone of the source that just won't boot.

As far as all that double swapping stuff, you are still going to want to swap drives no matter how you do the clone. You will want to test your cloned drive to make sure it boots and everything went well. If you just clone the drive and set the clone on the shelf, it would be a shame to come back to in a few months, or longer, and find that it won't boot.

[Paul Pavlik]

I have found that, using the Apricorn EZ-Gig II, you can make a clone from Internal (Source) to External (Target). However the Clone will not always be able to Boot. The only reliable method is to Clone from External (Source) to Internal (Target).

[taichi]

[quote="Paul Pavlik"]I have found that, using the Apricorn EZ-Gig II, you can make a clone from Internal (Source) to External (Target). However the Clone will not always be able to Boot. The only [b]reliable[/b] method is to Clone from External (Source) to Internal (Target).[/quote]

Have you ever done this with Vista? I have heard that with Vista clones there can be a problem with booting, which is only solved by installing something from the Vista OS disk.

I have decided not to clone my drive. Given that I had a technician clone my drive in April, I searched for documents and files that had been created since then, and transfered them to a folder and also burned them to an external CD. I'm going to drag them onto my old, backup drive. I'm just doing this for insurance in case something funky happens with the Vista Service Pack 2 upgrade.

So now I have a different question. I'm going to be putting the backup drive into a USB enclosure in order to do the transfer. I bought a wrist grounding strap to protect against ESD. (I know a lot of people think that ESD is fanciful like gnomes and elves, and others who take it seriously.) Since I'm just working on the enclosure and the drive, I'm going to be doing it on a desk that is free and open. My question is what do I clip the grounding strap to to create a ground? I have a UPS unit plugged into a grounded outlet nearby.

Thanks

[RealBlackStuff]

Clip it to the Ground/Earth terminal of the wall socket, or to a blank piece of metal on a radiator.

[taichi]

[quote="RealBlackStuff"]Clip it to the Ground/Earth terminal of the wall socket, or to a blank piece of metal on a radiator.[/quote]

No radiators here.

The grounding strap actually terminates in what looks like a kind of plug that might presumably have been designed to be stuck into the round (grounding?) hole in the wall socket, but it doesn't stick or stay. It's too loose. The radiator clip slips over this terminating plug.

I thought that since the UPS is plugged into a grounded outlet that I could clip the alligator to a metal contact in the ethernet port in the UPS, but someone at the local electronics part store was wary of that.

Stuck in an endless loop.

By the way, the gentleman who posted above regarding the failure of an internal>external clone underscored my hesitation to try it that way. If I had an extra enclosure and blank drive I'd try it, but I'm in an a real financial bind, and I only have my internal drive and my backup with important data on it...hence the conservative idea of dragging files onto the backup.

I'm also being conservative regarding the anti-static strap. If you read posts and articles online you'll see that half of people ignore the possibility of ESD damaging their drive, or RAM, or MB, and half take it seriously. But even most of those who by and large ignore ESD admit that there is the possibility, albeit remote, that these parts could be damaged. I can't take the chance.

It's also interesting how fuzzy most people are about what proper grounding procedures are. I spoke with four people yesterday in different electronics stores, and got four different answers.

And as far as backup software, Norton 360 backups documents in compressed gibberish, which doesn't inspire confidence.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[nlkccom]

I have a T60, and also planning to upgrade the hard drive. Does acronis TI also copies the hidden partition onto the new hard drive?

[bill bolton]

Does acronis TI also copies the hidden partition onto the new hard drive?

Yes.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[BeeJayEmm]

taichi,
For the sake of clarity, are you trying to clone the drive, i.e. make an exact bootable copy on another drive, or make a backup? Do you want to swap the drives when you are finished or is the external drive only used to store a backup of the internal drive? You keep saying clone but then you seem to say that you just want to backup before applying a service pack in case the update goes awry. I have done both procedures with multiple computers (including several ThinkPads) using both Apricorn and Acronis software. Nary an issue. When cloning, I have always swapped the new drive into the ThinkPad, put the old drive into the enclosure and cloned. If merely backing up, I don't believe swapping is necessary. I have not yet cloned the Vista OS but I have restored a backup, again without problem. As someone said above, try it. The worst that will happen is nothing.

[taichi]

Pardon me if I was unclear.

My original intention was to do what I consider to be the most thorough backup, which in my mind is a clone because if something goes wrong the drives can be swapped. This procedure allows for getting more or less instantaneously back on your feet.

However I'm beginning to think that making an image is more practical, given that no disk swapping is necessary.

When I had an A21p I routinely made clones of the internal drive onto the drive in an Apricorn enclosure. Apparently there are impediments to doing that with Vista on a T60P.

Thank you for your response.