8GB RAM Limit

[hyde]

I searched but I couldn't find the reason why X220 has 8GB Ram Limit? I apologize if this was covered, but search results could not get me the answer.

[khtse]

I searched but I couldn't find the reason why X220 has 8GB Ram Limit? I apologize if this was covered, but search results could not get me the answer.

It doesn't have the 8GM limit. It's just that 8GB is the max you can configure your Thinkpad when ordering with Lenovo.

That beings said, most Thinkpads only have two SO-DIMM slots (beside the W series, which has 4 SO-DIMM slots, and you can configure it with 16GB RAM when ordering), and I haven't seen any 8GB on a single SO-DIMM stick that doesn't cost a fortune.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CHMQ8wIwAw
http://www.yourmacstore.com/samsung-16g ... 00-sodimm/

[hyde]

I didn't know that. For some reason Crucial listed 8GB limit, and since they did not offer any other options but max 8GB when ordering, I thought 8GB was the limit.

In fact, it says here4GB max per slot:

[khtse]

I didn't know that. For some reason Crucial listed 8GB limit, and since they did not offer any other options but max 8GB when ordering, I thought 8GB was the limit.

In fact, it says here4GB max per slot:

That's because 4GB on a stick is the maximum that Crucial has. They don't have any 8GB SO-DIMM stick.

[Harryc]

Here you go. You might as well sell the X220 to pay for it ...
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20 ... 3DDR3S16P/

[hyde]

So, 8GB is the limit then...

[Tony Chan]

That's only good for x220? x200/201 can't take that because of chipset limit?

[khtse]

That's only good for x220? x200/201 can't take that because of chipset limit?

They should be able to. Intel chipset doesnt have such limit, I haven't seen anyone tried though. It's just doesn't make sense given the cost.

[hyde]

I don't get it, why would it be so expensive? Is it because there is not enough space on the module and they have to use some expensive technology to fit the capacity in available space?

[khtse]

I don't get it, why would it be so expensive? Is it because there is not enough space on the module and they have to use some expensive technology to fit the capacity in available space?

Yup. Current semi-conductor manufacturing process cannot fit enough memory capacity into a single memory chip with a yield good enough to price them at an affordable price. But just as Intel is able to shrink their CPU dies every year, they will become affordable... eventually.

[hyde]

Or just another way to control the supply/demand for the existing technology. Should there really be need for that much memory, they will eventually do it. Just like USB sticks, they don't go down in price, instead one step higher capacity becomes available at same price. You can get 2,4 and 8GB for almost the same price nowadays.

[erik]

Should there really be need for that much memory, they will eventually do it.

...or you buy a proper workstation.

[khtse]

...or you buy a proper workstation.

Right. I built a Core i7 2600k (highly overclockable, running at 4.5Ghz right now) desktop with 16GB RAM for less than the costs of 2 8GB SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM sticks...

[hyde]

Sure, I can strap that on my back. How many hours do you think I could get with car battery.

[hunterman223]

Sure, I can strap that on my back. How many hours do you think I could get with car battery.

What about the screen? Shoulder mounted perhaps?


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[hyde]

What about the screen? Shoulder mounted perhaps?

[khtse]

I use remote desktop to access my desktop when I have to do heavy duty simulation.

[hyde]

Thanks for all the replies, I was reviewing RAM related posts, and I came across this:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1599/10/
Has anyone tried this on their laptop before? Or would there be a problem to mix and match 1333 and 1866Mhz (4GB Each) or if it is better to just buy a pair?

[khtse]

Thanks for all the replies, I was reviewing RAM related posts, and I came across this:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1599/10/
Has anyone tried this on their laptop before? Or would there be a problem to mix and match 1333 and 1866Mhz (4GB Each) or if it is better to just buy a pair?

If you mix ram of different speed, both of them will ultimately be running at the lower speed of the two.

It's not a good idea to mix ram together for stability reason. This is especially true when building desktop computer and you want to overclock the hell out of it. People seems to report that they don't have any problem mixing ram together on laptop though. That may have to do with the fact that most people are not really using all of the 8GB and they are no pushing the system hard enough. I wouldn't risk it though, especially considering how cheap 2x4GB has become:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1117664/
($35 after rebate)

[Roger99]

Why should you want more than 8GB of RAM?
You would be hard pushed to find software to run on the X220 that would even use the full 8GB.
Look at the specs of the super-fast RAM. The desktop versions even have heat spreaders. That shows how much power they use, so you'd probably need to keep the laptop plugged in.

[penartur]

Why should you want more than 8GB of RAM?
You would be hard pushed to find software to run on the X220 that would even use the full 8GB.

Virtual machines, huge software projects in a full-loaded IDE, browsers with tons of tabs, etc...

Look at the specs of the super-fast RAM. The desktop versions even have heat spreaders. That shows how much power they use, so you'd probably need to keep the laptop plugged in.

a) It is only true for RAM designed to be overclocked with voltage increase.
b) The heat spreader doesn't tell you anything about how exactly much power it uses, it only tells that, probably, it uses more power than regular sticks.
c) The OP doesn't say he wants to get the super-fast RAM, he only says he wants a lot of RAM; and, probably, 8GB sticks use the same power that 4GB sticks use because of the more precise process.
d) And even if they used 2x that much power, RAM power consumption is negligible part of total laptop power consumption. E.g. if total laptop power consumption is ~10W, 4GB sticks power consumption is 0.2W/each, and 8GB sticks power consumption is 0.4W/each, total laptop power consumption with upgrade from 2*4GB to 2*8GB will go up from 10W to 10.4W, so that the battery life will only decrease on 4% (which is, in case of X220, about 20 minutes for 9-cell battery). Although i doubt there is such an effect; have you heard of anyone successfully increasing their battery life by going down from 2*8GB to 1*2GB?
e) Also, even if there were such noticeable power difference, it would probably be compensated by power savings from using large amount of RAM (e.g. HDD would be used less frequently because of disabled pagefile and/or increased disk cache; the same amount of work could be done in less time and larger amount of work could be done in the same time; etc).

[Roger99]

There's a thread on another forum also suggesting 20 minutes lost on a 9 cell battery and of course it will be a more severe loss on a 6 cell.
If the laptop is being used intensively as a desktop replacement then I can see there will be some mitigation due to efficiency gains, but I suggest that the majority of laptops are not used that way. There will be a lot of slack time between processes, but the RAM will be taking current from start to finish.

[penartur]

There's a thread on another forum also suggesting 20 minutes lost on a 9 cell battery and of course it will be a more severe loss on a 6 cell.

It will not be a more severe loss on a 6 cell. Also, the loss will be smaller as the load increases.
Again, let's imagine (just to have something to start from) that 4GB sticks consume 0.2W/each and 8GB sticks consume 0.4W/each. Then let's imagine there are two laptop usage plans, one is super-light (e.g. reading) with 10W total laptop power consumption (except for RAM), and another is super-heavy (e.g. watching FullHD from YouTube through wifi) with 20W total laptop power consumption (except for RAM).
9-cell battery capacity is AFAIK 99W*h. So, for first usage plan we're getting 9hrs 31mins (2*4GB) vs. 9hrs 10mins (2*8GB), with the difference being 21mins; and for second usage plan we're getting 4hrs 51mins (2*4GB) vs. 4hrs 46mins , with the difference being only 6mins.
6-cell battery capacity is 62W*h, about 63% of 9-cell battery capacity; and all the times will go down proportionally. For first usage plan we're getting 5hrs 58mins vs. 5hrs 44mins (difference is 14mins), and for second usage plan we're getting 3hrs 2mins vs. 2hrs 59mins (difference is 3mins).
Keep in mind that we suggested that 4GB sticks consume 0.2W and 8GB sticks consume 0.4W; actual numbers may differ (and actual 8GB stick power consumption is probably the same as 4GB one, so there will not be any difference; and one would get better battery life by using 1*8GB instead of 2*4GB). However, that still should give you some ideas about how that could affect battery life in different scenarios: basically, under 2x heavier load, the difference will be 4x smaller; and with 2x lower battery capacity, the difference will be 2x smaller.

[hyde]

The topic started with checking the limit of laptop, it turned into a very interesting conversation with a lot of good information.
Obviously there has to be somewhat more power consumption with more RAM modules, but the real question is the difference between 1333Mhz and 1866Mhz.
Since additional block of 1866 paired with 1333 will cause both to run at lower clock speed, it is not worth just discarding perfectly good 4GB RAM to go to identical 8GB. I would rather just buy a $25 4GB RAM and call it a day.
It looks like there is really not a huge different in terms of power consumption. But if you are relying on your laptop while traveling, especially when you want to get as much usage as possible, it always makes sense to use the stock configuration, or even reduce a few things. I think there is another discussion in a few other boards on the performance advantage vs power consumption of 7200rpm vs slower hard drives. Some say slower drives take longer to process/read/write, but faster drives use more battery, I think it just balances one another, and I would think that same would apply to RAM. Faster process/results causing shorter battery load at higher voltage vs longer battery load at lower voltage.

[penartur]

Obviously there has to be somewhat more power consumption with more RAM modules, but the real question is the difference between 1333Mhz and 1866Mhz.

If we're comparing the same modules running at different clock speeds, basically the stick running on 1866MHz will consume 1866/1333-100% = 40% more power when compared with the same stick running on 1333MHz. The question is, however, whether it does a noticeable contribution in a total laptop power consumption or not.

But if you are relying on your laptop while traveling, especially when you want to get as much usage as possible, it always makes sense to use the stock configuration, or even reduce a few things.

It depends. Maybe the extra RAM will reduce the battery life by a couple of minutes, but for ones who think about RAM upgrade it will definitely increase their productivity.

I think there is another discussion in a few other boards on the performance advantage vs power consumption of 7200rpm vs slower hard drives. Some say slower drives take longer to process/read/write, but faster drives use more battery, I think it just balances one another,

I wouldn't be surprised if averaged power consumption of laptop with 7200 is lower than that of laptop with 5400 (because the faster HDD makes it work faster, and the time spent consuming power is less than that of slower HDD).

and I would think that same would apply to RAM

There is a difference between RAM and HDD: while HDD may sleep, consuming much less power than during its usage, RAM consumes the same power all the time.
So, while with HDD there are two energy-consuming factors (work gets done faster => less time spent consuming power & better productivity), with RAM there is only a latter factor in game.

[hyde]

Thanks for all the information and comments.
After some price comparison I will report back with I end up doing in a few weeks, as I would like to use the laptop for a bit before I start investing more on it.

[penartur]

Thanks for all the information and comments.
After some price comparison I will report back with I end up doing in a few weeks, as I would like to use the laptop for a bit before I start investing more on it.

I'd suggest you to wait a bit.
4GB stick prices went down from $150 to $25 in about a year (from 2010 spring to 2011 spring). That thing always happens with a bleeding edge technologies.

[hyde]

Thanks, yes I am waiting at the moment, trying to sort out the little quirks of my laptop. Just now the left trackpoint button stopped working..

[hyde]

I haven't seen any 8GB on a single SO-DIMM stick that doesn't cost a fortune.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CHMQ8wIwAw
http://www.yourmacstore.com/samsung-16g ... 00-sodimm/

I thought I would let you know that I finally started coming across reasonably priced sets of 2x8GB banks. $55-$70

http://www.amazon.com/Komputerbay-PC3-1 ... 620&sr=8-1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231531
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820576015
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820301100

I am thinking about getting it, but I wonder if it will make a big difference.

[erik]

I am thinking about getting it, but I wonder if it will make a big difference.

if you run your heaviest apps, open task manager, and find that you aren't even close to leveraging what you have now then it won't make a difference at all.   conversely, if you're constantly running out of memory then it'll make a noticeable difference.

if you don't already know the answer to this then you'll probably be on the side of no difference at all.