T60 Running the Developer's Preview of Windows 8

[rossmosis]

It runs perfect, I'd say even better than 7. Boot up times are excellent. If you have any questions about it just ask! I'd agree with Microsoft's statement saying this is their biggest change since 95.

(Plus who doesn't like a little T series action)

[mdp]

Hi, I'm fiddling (or should I say diddling) with the free Win 7 Thin PC OS (WinTPC) downloadable at microsoft on my T42. It claims to allow "repurposing old PC's" as thin clients, e.g. it's Win 7 "lite" but so far my experience is that it seems to be a ram "virtual machine" version of 7, with extremely narrow functionality. Reminds me of win 3.1, actually. It can't accept drivers outside some parameters. It was touch and go with sound at first. and won't do the wireless modem. There is some ramdisk device installed which isn't a visible drive, and I run out of memory every third web page or so. really takes me back.....
I'm using 512MB ram, and it's filled up by the OS functions. It nevers pages to the disk.
I'll see if functionality increases with more RAM availability.
Warning, better use a dedicated disk for playing with this, it's won't install with dual boot and will ".old" your previous installations.
That Win 8 you've got there looks like a linux netbook.

[rossmosis]

I've never played with the lite W7, but I've used WinFLP (lite XP) and I really liked it, could do pretty much everything the regular XP did while running significantly faster on older laptops (390x, T20, etc).

I wouldn't install this Developers Preview on my main laptop as it can't be dual booted without a complete reinstall of everything, I just had that T60 laying around with W7 and it felt pretty redundant having the same operating system on two laptops, and I wanted to see what this was all about. That start menu shown in the picture is just that--the start menu. You can click on the "Desktop" block and it takes you to what looks like an almost exact replica of the standard Windows 7. It takes some getting used to, I can already tell this will be the most amazing on a tablet PC, as the start menu is geared towards the iOS or Android look, and the regular desktop is when you want to use it as a normal Windows device.

[Akira_Hotate]

Is this a screen shot of windows PHONE 7 running on an thinkpad, or did Microsoft went from bad to worse ?

[Totoro-kun]

OMG, I am so happy that I have ditched MŠ products, could not bear to actually use this kind of interface. It may be good for my grandmother, but common, not every computer user is that dumb or lazy to actually need a phone menu in a personal computer If there should be the end of MŠ, then it must be the day windows 8 shows up

[rossmosis]

That's actually just the start menu that's pictured. People aren't getting lazy, just more efficient.

[Totoro-kun]

Since when start menu in full screen with huge icons is "more efficient"??? For blind people maybe... I am sorry, but this seems just stupid to me unless windows 8 is actually meant for not at all technical, blind people who belongs to the "grey mass of not thinking individuals"(R) who bought those useless touchscreen ipad like toys, which does not even have stylus, so they need a start menu in full screen to actually hit something with a finger

[Akira_Hotate]

That's actually just the start menu that's pictured. People aren't getting lazy, just more efficient.

Ok, Then I would like to ask. Does windows 8 have virtual desktops ? Since I use linux, my efficiency is increased 3 times on linux, on a thinkpad x61s than it was on windows. because I use 3 virtual desktops and can open much more programs at the same time. (some of mine friends on desktop pc with large monitors or more than one monitor use a lot of virtual desktops)

Edited: Ok i read my post and thought it sounded a little aggressive. I don't want to start a flame war against windows vs linux or anything. I'm just curious of that function appearing in windows 8. Since for me it is very very useful

[Neil]

I suppose I could eventually get used to it, but for now I find the "phone" style start menu to be extremely cumbersome. I click on the desktop icon, and sure enough there is a familiar desktop, but unless I clutter the desktop with shortcuts, I don't see any way to access a menu from the desktop.

Looks fine for a phone, or a "ten foot" interface for a media PC, but not the way I want to use a desktop PC. I'm going to mess with it for a while longer just to see if it grows on me. But, as it is today, I wouldn't pay to use it.

[rossmosis]

I like it and a lot of others do too, I just keep in mind that this is an early (free) version of it and there is still a lot that Microsoft has to work out.

And as for Linux, that is an operating system that is fine but I could never trust to do all the work I need to do throughout the day easily. I've used it a lot and still have it on a few of my Thinkpads and I use OSX as well and Windows is still the one I keep going back to. I think that 8 is a welcome addition to the family, and to the few who don't like it, 7 is still going strong and I'm sure Microsoft will continue updating it for a long time.

[Neil]

I like it and a lot of others do too...the few who don't like it.

Just curious where your statistics are coming from. Is it just a few personal acquaintances of your that mostly like, and few don't. Or, do you know of hundreds or thousands, or more, who have tried it? I would be interested in how the percentages are going pro/con. Maybe we should start a poll thread.

It all reminds me of the Unity desktop Ubuntu introduced with the latest release. I don't know what percentage of users like Unity compared with those who don't, but on the Linux forums that I frequent, there are only a few who like it. So, it is my feeling that Microsoft will get a similar reaction from Windows users. Of course, I could be wrong about that. I often am...

[rossmosis]

Overall the views on it seem positive, so far all the people I've demonstrated it to love it, analysts/experts like it: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/215642/ ... le-des.htm , http://news.bostonherald.com/jobfind/ne ... ition=also . When I say that a lot of people like it, I'm not just making it up. I'm sure people who can't handle change wont like it but I'm all for this and I'm excited for new ways to compute visually because the way it's being done now is getting extremely stale and I'm more than ready for a change.

[Totoro-kun]

SO it IS made for not at all technical, blind people who belongs to the "grey mass of not thinking individuals"(R) who bought those useless touchscreen ipad like toys. Main targeted system for windblows 8 is a tablet pc, err.. cheap tablet pc, which cannot handle normal sized icons

And this makes windblows 8 actually useless, because we already have a decent operating system for such tablets and it's called Android. That makes windblows 8 absolutely useless product.

P.S.
And believe me, twiter and facebook icons in full screen will not make people more productive

[rossmosis]

Calling it "Winblows" made any points you tried to make look childish. Your post was filled with assumptions and ignorance and that isn't what this thread (or forum) is about. I'd suggest quitting while you are behind.

[Puppy]

Ugh, it is really ugly You have turned your ThinkPad into a childish phone-like device. I'm glad I use Windows server OS variants most of the time.

[pianowizard]

And this makes windblows 8 actually useless, because we already have a decent operating system for such tablets and it's called Android.

Android is not "decent" because it can't run x86 apps. Many people (me included) have held off migrating to tablets for that reason alone. Windows 8 will make it possible to run Microsoft Office and any other standard PC programs on tablets, and I do plan on replacing one of my laptops with a Windows 8 tablet in a couple years.

The Metro-style UI is definitely a good idea for tablets and phones. I tried Win 8 Preview on a desktop for half a day and wasn't convinced this UI is a good thing for desktops or laptops, but after trying it for longer I might get used to it. And like rossmosis already emphasized many times, this is a pre-beta preview of a product that most likely won't be released until 2013. It will only get better, not worse.

Calling it "Winblows" made any points you tried to make look childish. Your post was filled with assumptions and ignorance and that isn't what this thread (or forum) is about. I'd suggest quitting while you are behind.

I totally agree.

[Neil]

When I say that a lot of people like it, I'm not just making it up.

I just didn't realize how much the tablet/smartphone full-screen-touch-app-style GUIs are currently in vogue. I'm sure Microsoft is trying their best to maintain a large market share as this craze continues. It's just not something that I'm all that interested in right now. In fact, I prefer to use the old fashioned menu on my Windows smart phone than the default large icons.

Interestingly enough, I just discovered today that ...even motherboard BIOs' are going Touch UI-
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3853#ov

I'm sure people who can't handle change wont like it

That must be me...I'm of the old "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" generation. In my business, productivity is measured by how long I can keep employees doing their job without the lost time of trying to teach them new ways of doing things. We are running five XP desktops, and two Win7 machines in the office, and we lost several days, yes days, time just moving those two people from XP to 7. Hard to believe, I know, but it's true.

I'm excited for new ways to compute visually because the way it's being done now is getting extremely stale and I'm more than ready for a change.

There are no doubt many (especially younger) people who have a need for fast changes to hold their interest. That may not be the case with you, so don't be offended, it's just my observation. But like I wrote above, I don't need change to maintain productivity. But, a little over 15 years ago, I was saying that I didn't need a computer...and now I've changed and use several computers daily. So I will prob ably have to eat my words and make more changes as technology changes. But, I intend to stay a few steps behind the curve.

[jdhurst]

rossmosis: I'd agree with Microsoft's statement saying this is their biggest change since 95.

I have been running Windows 7 Pro 64-bit on my T61p for over a year now.

My Windows 7 desktop looks like my Vista desktop looks like my XP Pro desktop looks my Windows 2000 desktop looks my Windows NT4 desktop looks like my Windows 98 desktop looks like my Windows 95. They are all the same, pretty much indistinguishable from each other.

So if I cannot get rid of the Windows 8 telephone interface and replace it with what I have then I won't use it.

I think what Microsoft has produced is a 5 pound iPhone wannabe that won't do much more. Windows 8 tablets will NOT run any x86 legacy programs. Confirmed by Microsoft and reported in Information Week during the week of September 12, 2011. ... JDH

[jdhurst]

By the way:

1. It takes an IQ of 2 to be able to connect dots.
2. Microsoft has said "Do not try to run Office 2010 64-bit unless every single application you have is also 64-bit (not possible just yet).
3. So Microsoft has said run Office 2010 32-bit (I do).
4. Microsoft has confirmed (Information Week) that Windows 8 tablet will NOT run x86 applications.
5. So Windows 8 tablet will NOT run Office 2010 32-bit which Microsoft essentially said we must run.

Microsoft cannot connect dots. ...JDH

[rossmosis]

I'm sure there will be ways to bypass the "metro" interface entirely. I completely understand that it isn't for everybody, it is a lot different than what Windows users are used to. Microsoft took a big risk in doing this instead of just releasing "Windows 7 mach 2" and I really do hope it pays off, I really dig it and hopefully the final retail version has worked out a lot of the kinks and made it so you can customize it to use the new interface more, or completely cut it out.

[pianowizard]

Windows 8 tablets will NOT run any x86 legacy programs. Confirmed by Microsoft and reported in Information Week during the week of September 12, 2011. ... JDH

If I recall correctly, Microsoft was just referring to tablets with ARM processors. Windows 8 tablets with Intel processors should be able to, just like the Windows 7 tablets currently made by Fujitsu, Acer, MSI, etc.

[dr_st]

It really does look ugly. Hope the final product offers other options of interfacing with it.

[Totoro-kun]

Calling it "Winblows" made any points you tried to make look childish. Your post was filled with assumptions and ignorance and that isn't what this thread (or forum) is about. I'd suggest quitting while you are behind.

Oh common, who said we have to be serious all the time? word "windblows" came into my head after looking at Windows updates, like ~90% of them say something like this:
security update to fix issue, when an attacker could compromise your system. And they never end, doesn't this mean that your windows are missing glasses?

The interface is indeed ugly, too many/too bright colors, icons too big, screens are getting smaller and smaller. In my book this is called distracting and distracting does not equal to productive. So they would better keep a way for switching back into classic style and I want classic start menu and details panel back Windows 2000 was the best GUI for productivity in my opinion, because it was plain and nothing would get between you and your work. Of course, kids would not buy it, so MŠ has to put in tasteless interfaces with as many bells and whistles they can. However, all would be good if we could switch back to that classical interface really easy.

I also wonder about security of Windows 8? Does it still bug you with those allow/deny popups when you try to run something? I think this is also one of the most stupid things of windows, if average user is presented with such popup, he most likely is to hit allow/ok. So in practice it does not really work, but annoys majority of users. What should be done instead, is non admin users able to actually use programs, and when you run some kind of install, you should be able to select how you run it, as admin or as simple user. If admin is selected, a password should be asked and software would be installed system wide. But if admin is not selected, then software would still be installed, but only for that user and only in that users territory. However, I smell a conspiracy here, if MŠ would actually implement a working permission system, then we would not need to buy expensive antivirus suites, that brings our pc's into the 80'ies in terms of speed. And antivirus companies would not bee to happy about that I imagine.

And another seriously big problem with windows (Linux slowly tens to be getting there too though) is applications updating them selves. Imagine that you have lots of various applications, and all of them wants to update, what happens? A massive waste of system resources and heart attack to poor user when his favorite application suddenly changes gui. It is always best, when such tasks are left to the administrator or at least centralized, which does not happen in windows world.

So here we are, hoping for the best, and I am not going to quit anywhere

[dr_st]

Right, and Linux distributions never have security updates?

I am also very fond of the classic interface, but some of the changes in Vista/7 actually help productivity if you use them right.

[jdhurst]

pianowizard: If I recall correctly, Microsoft was just referring to tablets with ARM processors.

I think that is correct. But Microsoft has made that big play of "Windows 8 is everything" (my rendition of quote). ... JDH

[jdhurst]

rossmosis: I'm sure there will be ways to bypass the "metro" interface entirely. I completely understand that it isn't for everybody

I certainly hope so. I do not want an "iPhonie" without a mouse to manage complicated spreadsheets and word documents. (try to change a named range with cursor keys only - it doesn't work).

I realize many people have fewer needs. But equally, many people have complex business needs, and the constant abandonment of the latter group is indeed frustrating. ... JDH

[jdhurst]

Totoro-kun: And believe me, twitter and facebook icons in full screen will not make people more productive

The point lost here is that twitter and facebook (forget the icons) do not make people more productive in the workplace. Mostly less productive from what I have seen. ... JDH

[Totoro-kun]

Right, and Linux distributions never have security updates?

I am also very fond of the classic interface, but some of the changes in Vista/7 actually help productivity if you use them right.

Well, yes Linux also has security updates However it depends on distribution how they are handled and served to the end user. Some distributions like Ubuntu take on windows-like approach and strive to produce them as fast as they can. Which is not that good thing in my opinion. This often leads to more trouble than good. Because it's natural way of doing things, if you do something fast, you have much higher chance of screwing something up, plus if update is done without careful thinking, it ends up producing even bigger security hole, than the one it was intended to fix.

Other distributions like Slackware, tends to leave this work for administrators hands. So we (Slackers) have security advisory, where there is as much information about given issue as possible, and we can decide whenever we actually need this update plus we can think of another ways of preventing the issue without installing update. While this method is not suitable for average user, it is absolutely brilliant approach to achieve system stability. There for I have very little performance and stability issues with my Slackware boxes. I have even set up Slackware for couple family members and friends and they perform perfectly. I just have to see them once in a while and perform updates if they are needed or wanted and that is about it. Also this kind of support last very long time, even Slack as old as 8.1 is supported.

Of course, there are many different ways to handle security updates in Linux world. I have only mentioned two opposites. And it is very likely that windows would never take the second approach, as stable computers are bad for business. It is better to keep customers believing in a bright tomorrow and paying money for fixed or new products today.

Windows 7 indeed have some nice improvements, but you have to spend some time to tweak it. As default, they are horrible to use. I do not think that all changes are bad, rather i miss elegance and simplicity. If MŠ can't provide simple, elegant and productive interface, then they should provide means for us to create it.

[loyukfai]

I wrote a piece on Windows 8, if anybody cares...

http://byfai.com/content/windows-8

To save your time, I think Microsoft could do a better job adapting Windows Phone to be a tablet OS, like what Apple and Android did, instead of shoehorning a desktop OS into it.

By OS, I mean both the underlying kernel and all those stuff, and the UI. Because I'm sure someone will say iOS shares the same roots as Mac OS X, and Android is based on Linux which runs on mainframes as well.

Cheers.

[sir_synthsalot]

So if I cannot get rid of the Windows 8 telephone interface and replace it with what I have then I won't use it.

It really does look ugly. Hope the final product offers other options of interfacing with it.

I'm pretty sure you can. Look at the other screenshots of the OS. It would be quite foolish of them to lock it.

Windows 7 indeed have some nice improvements, but you have to spend some time to tweak it. As default, they are horrible to use.

For you personally.