Papyrus Needs Help (Admin ed: Support Papyrus or its gone!)

[Batuta]

The gorgeous Papyrus office suite (http://www.papyrus.de"), which is fully Microsoft compatible and now includes a DB design engine, is roughly 2 weeks away from being completed for OS/2.
But despite the advertisement on the company's web site, their CEO told me that they had to halt development out of a lack of interest.
After the demise of StarOffice and the Lotus SmartSuite, we only have the bloated OpenDesktop available now.
Papyrus is the last of the "mean & lean" native OS/2 apps and they just need 30-40 more customers to get past their threshold number.
W/o that the new version will not be ported to OS/2 and in fact no more version updates for OS/2 will follow.

So go and spend some little $ on a very decent SW product.

[madodel]

Why not post this to the VOICE News list where it will get a fairly wide distribution? submit@os2voice.org

There are about 800 subscribers, plus the feed from this list is used by several OS/2 oriented web sites like http://www.os2world.com

Anyone interested in OS/2 and eComStation news and announcements can subscribe at http://www.os2voice.org/MailingLists.html

Mark

[Ted_E]

[quote="Batuta"]The gorgeous Papyrus office suite (http://www.papyrus.de"), which is fully Microsoft compatible and now includes a DB design engine, is roughly 2 weeks away from being completed for OS/2.
But despite the advertisement on the company's web site, their CEO told me that they had to halt development out of a lack of interest.

I wonder if their CEO has looked at the English version of their web page. I just checked to see if there was anything new. There wasn't. I sent the following in an e-mail:
"
I have been visiting your website at
http://www.papyrus.de/e_preise.htm
fairly regularly for at least three years since a friend showed me Papyrus. I have always seen the "Under construction - comming soon" stuff the whole time. How can you possibly expect to sell it with no US$ or Cdn$ price, no info, no demo past version 8 and no announcement as to when I could expect delivery?

While this is a (comparatively) expensive package, I would stretch my budget for it IF it was available.
"

Any and all who see this should point out the cause of the _apparent_ lack of interest.

[mires]

Any and all who see this should point out the cause of the _apparent_ lack of interest.

Lack of interest mainly falls on Papyrus itself, why don't they post announcements or ads instead of relying on others word of mouth
to achieve sales or developement, in a small and "cheap" community
like OS/2 they won't go very far.

As you also noted their pricing it's not like it has nothing to do with it
as well.

ciao, mires

[Batuta]

mires:

Lack of interest mainly falls on Papyrus itself, why don't they post announcements or ads

Hey listen, you really need to get your line of reasoning straight here.
First of all, the Papyrus web site announcement is 100% correct.
Papyrus/2 is ~2 weeks away from being finished, but it isn't finished yet.
So "under construction" is 100% correct.
Their CEO did admit to me that he hasn't removed the "OS/2 supported" part yet, but I hope that is not the web update you were asking for.

Then the issue about "advertising". Give me a break man.
They can hardly break even on what they have put into the product so far.
Now you expect them to launch a major add campaign drive?
That dude has to pay his employees and feed his family from his software sales. Its not like to many OS/2 users are willing to pay good money for a good product like the following statement proves:

As you also noted their pricing it's not like it has nothing to do with it

And that is supposed to mean what?!?
Because its OS/2 you are supposed to get it for (next to) nothing???
Would you mind comparing the price for the full Papyrus Office Suite (including multi-format Spreadsheet, Word processor and Database program) that of e.g. the Microsoft Office Suite?

Please folks get real and stop complaining.
PMview dropped out, BackAgain/2 is no longer updated so pleeaaase let's try to keep at least this one alive.
It only needs ~40 more potential customers to justify the 2 weeks of programmer’s paycheck they have to put in to get this one to market.
No one will have to pay anything if this one doesn't get finished.
But if it does, then you'll have the sleekest, fastest, meanest Office Suite available that's out there.

Ted_E:

While this is a (comparatively) expensive package, I would stretch my budget for it IF it was available.

Compared to what please???
I hope you don't compare a 150% optimized, speed enhanced and stabillity improved software package that comes with 5 days a week online support with some bloated "patch 'em, hack 'em, stitch 'em up" PD package that's not available PD for OS/2 anyway (-> OpenOffice).
Compare their pricing with that of MS Office and then start complaining.

PS: If we can't even keep this one alive then maybe we just don't deserve any better

[Ted_E]

mires:

Lack of interest mainly falls on Papyrus itself, why don't they post announcements or ads

Hey listen, you really need to get your line of reasoning straight here.
First of all, the Papyrus web site announcement is 100% correct.
Papyrus/2 is ~2 weeks away from being finished, but it isn't finished yet.
So "under construction" is 100% correct.

That web page hasn't changed in years - at least three.

Their CEO did admit to me that he hasn't removed the "OS/2 supported" part yet, but I hope that is not the web update you were asking for.

I'm looking for an announcement that the package is ready for digital delivery.

Then the issue about "advertising". Give me a break man.
They can hardly break even on what they have put into the product so far.
Now you expect them to launch a major add campaign drive?

You are being just plain silly! An announcement on their own web page, here, COOA and ecomstation.apps would take five or ten minutes of one persons time to prepare. Not the same "comming soon" that has been on their page since I first heard of the product. I hardly think that a TV add campaign, is necessary, reasonable or desireable.

You say 40 more people "to show interest". The friend who first showed me the package has repeatedly sent them e-mail asking when/if ver. 10 would be available. I have fairly frequently checked to see if it is available. There's two. How many more are in the same boat? I cannot afford to put what little money I have into vapourware and have been involved with this industry _far_ too long to pay for software that has been "commong soon" for years.

I bought and paid for eCS1.2, PMView (which, BTW, had a recent release of 3.11), APL2, DFSee and several other packages. All the recent ones came came by digital delivery within minutes.

That dude has to pay his employees and feed his family from his software sales. Its not like to many OS/2 users are willing to pay good money for a good product like the following statement proves:

As you also noted their pricing it's not like it has nothing to do with it

And that is supposed to mean what?!?

It means that it is significantly more money than even eCS i.e. the whole operating system. Not that it wouldn't be worth it if one could get it.

Since you seem to know this individual, tell him to get busy and DO that two weeks work then announce the product with a simple few sentence free announcement in the four places mentined.

Because its OS/2 you are supposed to get it for (next to) nothing???
Would you mind comparing the price for the full Papyrus Office Suite (including multi-format Spreadsheet, Word processor and Database program) that of e.g. the Microsoft Office Suite?

The comparison is odius but the M$ package is available. I don't have it and don't intend to but I will get OO if Papyrus isn't available or is sriously flawed.

Please folks get real and stop complaining.

it is you who need to get realistic. Very few people are foolish enough to buy a program that is "comming soon". We've all heard that before and many have been burned.

PMview dropped out,

You've got that wrong. I bought 3.1 recently (a few weeks ago) and there's already been an update.

BackAgain/2 is no longer updated Never used it - have my own methods.

so pleeaaase let's try to keep at least this one alive.
It only needs ~40 more potential customers to justify the 2 weeks of programmer’s paycheck they have to put in to get this one to market.

Re-read my answer to your post. Contact this CEO and tell him to get a product out.

No one will have to pay anything if this one doesn't get finished. But if it does, then you'll have the sleekest, fastest, meanest Office Suite available that's out there.

Only if it ceases to be vapourware!!

While this is a (comparatively) expensive package, I would stretch my budget for it IF it was available.

Compared to what please???

eCS, PMView, DFSee, Ghost script and Ghost View, ... It IS an expensive package and may well be worth it IF it is available.

Ted

[Batuta]

Ted_E:

I'm looking for an announcement that the package is ready for digital delivery.

How in heaven or hell could they possibly announce that if its not finished (yet)???
They are already way over budget on that one and will not pay the added cost for the last two week's of development if they can't be sure to get their money back.
Oh no wait, this is what you want to see happening (correct me if I'm wrong):
First Papyrus invests thousands of $ (one programmer per day can cost you up to $1000.-- in Germany) into Papyrus Office/2 and then certain folks just come along and say "Uuumpf, they want me to pay for that?!?! No Thanks!".
He's got a family to feed and employees to pay, I think I mentioned that...

Not the same "comming soon" that has been on their page since

How often do I need to repeat that its not ready yet and the only update you can get from them at this time is a complete removal of any references to OS/2.
Is this what you want? How silly is that?!

I have fairly frequently checked to see if it is available. There's two. How many more are in the same boat?
I cannot afford to put what little money I have into vaporware

Mr. pleeaase. If you don't want to spend money for good OS/2 software then just say so.
Don't look for excuses. No one, I repeat no one asked you to >spend money on vaporware<.
What was requested was that you call them or e-mail them and not just say that you are interested (he's got plenty of people "interested").
But that you pronounce you're ready to purchase the item and maybe even leave them enough contact info to make it sound for real.
Jeez, that’s a German company and over there they can't just charge you for Vaporware and get away with it.
They are by law forbidden from even charging you for anything they can't yet deliver.
But they need real orders, not just people "dropping by" in on an "interested" basis.
The CEO told me that when he spend big $ last time announcing a new Papyrus version for OS/2 in the US he ended up "entertaining" 150 users on a phone conference about the product.
From all those "fans" only 7 (seven!) ended up putting their money where their mouth was.

It means that it is significantly more money than even eCS i.e. the whole operating system

eCS "just" re-packages an operating system they did not develop, then they add some (good) software written for cheap in Russia (BIG difference) and finally they already have a large customer base for their eCS system. PMview no longer even mentions ongoing OS/2 development on their web site.
I'm afraid that is what you're looking for from Papyrus as well?!

Since you seem to know this individual, tell him to get busy and DO that two weeks work then announce the product with a simple few sentence free announcement in the four places mentioned.

You are nuts. Why the heck should he do such a stupid thing?
Because he owes you (or anyone else for that matter)???

He's already not making any money on this
So why should he throw more good money after bad one?

Very few people are foolish enough to buy a program that is "comming soon".

Nobody asked you to do that and to be honest, judging from your reaction you really don't want new OS/2 software.
What you are looking for is an opportunity to beat up on a company whose main "fault" it is that they don't just cater to your every whim.
Simply put, in this market (an OS/2 "market", what a laughable concept these days) one must deserve any new piece of OS/2 software.
I do not think you do Mr.

eCS, PMView, DFSee, Ghost script and Ghost View,

Almost all ghostware by now and you're not even comparing apples to oranges here.
Ghostscript is not even a document processor, much less an entire Office Suite!
Its simply a PS viewer and PDF converter and not even a very good one at that.
Its decent enough for shareware be sure, but even the PDF viewer function is lacking behind the Win32s port available for OS/2.

You know what, just forget about it. People like you do not deserve new OS/2 software.
PMview/2 is no longer developed, Ghostview/2 is only maintained on a volunteer basis and the only reason why eCS is still around is because they're the only source where one can get updated OS/2 install CDs in the first place.
You just spend soooo much time [censored] about this and that on the surface why the fact is that you just don't want to pay real money for real OS/2 software.
You think they should just go out on a limb for you and if you then decide to let them hang out there to dry and they go bankrupt over it, well though luck.
That's not the way it works anymore. They don't need to do anything.
The very fact that they even still bother with OS/2 should be cause to get down on the knees and say "Thanks" 3 times over.
But no, you need to insult them and heap scorn upon them, because we just have soooo many companies left still developing OS/2 software.
You know what, I think that you really just do not deserve new OS/2 software !
Good luck motivating anyone with speeches like yours to go and invest his livelihood into the OS/2 market!!

Papyrus, there goes another one...

[Ted_E]

Ted_E:

I'm looking for an announcement that the package is ready for digital delivery.

How in heaven or hell could they possibly announce that if its not finished (yet)???

Easy. Finish what they been promising for years and let us know.

They are already way over budget on that one and will not pay the added cost for the last two week's of development if they can't be sure to get their money back.

So the business side of the company is willing to toss years of work when they're 2 weeks from complrtion? I am beginning to suspect your motives. You fail to make any sense.

Oh no wait, this is what you want to see happening (correct me if I'm wrong):

I did and you paid no attention so this is clearly a waste of my time.

Not the same "comming soon" that has been on their page since

I have fairly frequently checked to see if it is available. There's two. How many more are in the same boat?
I cannot afford to put what little money I have into vaporware

Mr. pleeaase. If you don't want to spend money for good OS/2 software then just say so.

I have purchased several items of good software. Since you either can't or won't read, I'll repeat here: OS/2 W4, eCS 1.2, PMVIew, RSJ, DFSee, ZTree Bold, ...

What was requested was that you call them or e-mail them and not just say that you are interested (he's got plenty of people "interested").

The first reply to your post contained a quote from an e-mail I sent them. This was not the first e-mail I sent them by a long shot. I have not seen a reply to _any_ of them. The friend who introduced me to Papyrus has also e-mailed them on a number of occasions. No replies.

But that you pronounce you're ready to purchase the item and maybe even leave them enough contact info to make it sound for real.

I take it that you think (if that's the right word) that an e-mail with my name and a valid address stating I wish to buy it doesn't qualify?

But they need real orders, not just people "dropping by" in on an "interested" basis.

And I need real software delivered on receipt of a credit card number. This is how Serentity, Fsys, Mensys and others do it.

eCS "just" re-packages an operating system they did not develop, then they add some (good) software written for cheap in Russia (BIG difference) and finally they already have a large customer base for their eCS system.

I take it you don't use eCS. At least you haven't enough experience to appreciate the improvements they have made.

PMview no longer even mentions ongoing OS/2 development on their web site.
I'm afraid that is what you're looking for from Papyrus as well?!

Hmm. You are begining to sound like Timmy. Go to
http://www.pmview.com/
and look on the left of the page near the top.

Anyway, I've wasted enough time on you.

He's already not making any money on this

Why should he be making money on a product that doesn't ship?

PMview/2 is no longer developed,

From the web site: PMView Pro 3.12 OS/2 - 04/06/2005

I wonder if that would be grounds for a lawsuit or is libel legal where you live? But then you hide behind an alias. That says a lot.

End of thread as far as I am concerned.

<Plonk>

Ted

[mires]

mires:

Lack of interest mainly falls on Papyrus itself, why don't they post announcements or ads

Hey listen, you really need to get your line of reasoning straight here.

Do I? Just because it does not mach your way? Who do you think you are Pal?

First of all, the Papyrus web site announcement is 100% correct.
Papyrus/2 is ~2 weeks away from being finished, but it isn't finished yet.
So "under construction" is 100% correct.
Their CEO did admit to me that he hasn't removed the "OS/2 supported" part yet, but I hope that is not the web update you were asking for.

Totally irrelevant to the original & my posting

Then the issue about "advertising". Give me a break man.
They can hardly break even on what they have put into the product so far.

Now you expect them to launch a major add campaign drive?

They can use free newsgroups channels, just as eCS, nobody suggested
"major add campaign drive" as you state.

That dude has to pay his employees and feed his family from his software sales. Its not like to many OS/2 users are willing to pay good money for a good product like the following statement proves:

As you also noted their pricing it's not like it has nothing to do with it

And that is supposed to mean what?!?

That it does not comes cheap and that also it is a factor for the lack of interest, no references to will, learn how to read, please!

Because its OS/2 you are supposed to get it for (next to) nothing???

Absolutely not, but there is no product, so it's irrelevant.


Would you mind comparing the price for the full Papyrus Office Suite (including multi-format Spreadsheet, Word processor and Database program) that of e.g. the Microsoft Office Suite?

Impossible to do as there is no OS/2 Papyrus product to compare to.

Please folks get real and stop complaining.
PMview dropped out, BackAgain/2 is no longer updated so pleeaaase let's try to keep at least this one alive.
It only needs ~40 more potential customers to justify the 2 weeks of programmer’s paycheck they have to put in to get this one to market.
No one will have to pay anything if this one doesn't get finished.
But if it does, then you'll have the sleekest, fastest, meanest Office Suite available that's out there.

Fine, so let us have the product and than we'll purchase it, where is the problem?

On a final note, since you took this thread into an arguement out of context from the original post, I am out of here.

Ciao.