End of ERA - a SUPER HUMAN - a Great MAN

[JaneL]

OS war alert...

[pianowizard]

Jobs didn't create products.

Jobs was directly involved in 300+ patents.

What he was good at -- phenomenally so -- was identifying consumer electronics markets and putting together the necessary engineering talent to cater to those markets.

That's also what most successful scientists of the past several decades do, and it doesn't disqualify them from being called scientists or from winning Nobel Prizes. Most of these scientists don't do experiment themselves. Instead, they focus on the big picture, identify questions to pursue and strategies to answer them, write grants to obtain research funding, gather talented students and postdocs who do the actual experiments, and periodically offer these students/postdocs guidance.

Jobs was an inventor that focused on the big picture, and brought together skilled engineers who worked out the details under his guidance.

He was a visionary but not an inventor to the level of Edison by any means. Like I stated earlier, he was able to repackage already existing hardware into a pretty designed package. Then use his marketing genius to entice his followers or new converters to buy the company's product. Apple has been a brilliant industrial design company under the guidance of Steve Jobs....If Steve Jobs or Apple created a microprocessor with material that can replace current silicon based processor so that it can run 10 times faster while being 10 times smaller and consuming 10 times less power at affordable price, then I would give Steve Jobs the credit as an inventor worthy of comparison to Thomas Edison.

You and I use different criteria then. To me, Jobs' and Apple's repackaging existing hardware counts as invention, and the huge success of Apple's products shows that these are remarkable inventions.

That merely indicates you have little idea of the impact of Edison's primary innovations (of which the incandescent light bulb was merely a minor expression) and what others, like Sprague et al, built on them.

Your response indicates two things. First, you were thinking of the Western world, in which Edison's impact was already very widespread in 1910, whereas I was talking about the entire world; Edison's influence didn't spread to much of South America, Asia and Africa until much later. Second, you are underestimating the impact that Jobs has already made. His legacy extends far beyond Apple's own products. For instance:

1) Without the iPhone, HTC, Samsung, Motorola etc. would probably have never introduced thin and light smartphones with large touchscreens. We would be stuck with Palm's and RIM's bulky phones with tiny screens, and smartphones would be used by far fewer people than they are right now. When introducing the iPhone, Jobs proclaimed that it was at least 5 years ahead of its time, and of course he was right.

2) Without the iPad, we not only wouldn't have slate tablets, but we probably also wouldn't see the widespread use of IPS screens (such as on the X220 Thinkpad). A few Thinkpads and desktop monitors had used IPS before the iPad, but this technology never caught on until Jobs popularized it.

3) Without the Macbook Air, we would not have the nascent class of laptops known as the Ultrabooks. I am aware that Sony made a few similarly thin and light laptops long before the Macbook Air, but they sold poorly and thus had little impact on the laptop industry.

4) Without the iPod, we would probably be still walking around with discmen and CDs, perhaps even walkmen and cassette tapes.

I believe Jobs has affected society in numerous other ways as well, e.g. desktop computers, motion pictures (through Pixar), business school curricula, etc. etc. Therefore, even though I don't own a single Apple product (besides a USB charger that I got for free), my life has been transformed by Jobs and I am thankful for that.

[automobus]

1) Without the iPhone, HTC, Samsung, Motorola etc. would probably have never introduced thin and light smartphones with large touchscreens. We would be stuck with Palm's and RIM's bulky phones with tiny screens[…]

2) Without the iPad, we not only wouldn't have slate tablets, but we probably also wouldn't see the widespread use of IPS screens (such as on the X220 Thinkpad). A few Thinkpads and desktop monitors had used IPS before the iPad, but this technology never caught on until Jobs popularized it.

4) Without the iPod, we would probably be still walking around with discmen and CDs, perhaps even walkmen and cassette tapes.

I think you are wrong. (While what you said about Nobel Prize is interesting.)

1) I think such designs would have been made. There already were thin phones, such as RAZR. There were big screens. Palm LifeDrive, which is not a phone but rather PDA, comes close. What I do believe is that without the influence of iPhone, there would be more devices with replaceable batteries.

2) Excuse me, what are you talking about? The slate idea has been around since at least about 1990. In fact, the very first ThinkPad was very similar to GO's slate, and ran GO Corporation's software. (1 picture of GO slate) (2 picture of GO slate)
The design was precisely to be a notebook-size replacement, not a palm-size. Early Newton prototypes were big as well, but the released products were smaller and known as PDAs. Fujitsu made slates in the early nineties, too. I do not know who was the first to make a slate designed for fingers, though I think Fujitsu had some by the late ninties.
Have you seen a picture of a Compaq TC1000? That is a slate tablet. Or the Electrovaya Scribbler? Fujitsu Stylistic? Sony VAIO U (a bit different design than most tablets, almost like a big PSP)? Or any of Motion's products? TabletKiosk? Even ViewSonic made one back then (no, I am not talking about the modern market-chasing Android thing).

IPS: The HP Compaq line got IPS with TC1100, after the original TC1000. Motion Computing got IPS with the M1400 in 2004. PC tablets, or "real usable" tablets, never said goodbye to high viewing angles since then.

"widespread use of IPS": Really now, what are you talking about? The days of 15-inch FlexView ended long ago. Even then, IPS was not all that common (in laptops), and I do not believe usage has increased since. I do not understand what you are calling widespread.

4) There was healthy competition in the digital audio player industry before iPod. Some of them had equally bad, or even worse, DRM. Many had replaceable batteries (many even used standard AA and AAA cells). Maybe without iTunes, we would not have the shackled digital book stores from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Sony. Like iPhone, I think iPod has influenced the whole industry to use non-replaceable batteries.

I believe iPod and iTunes has not helped the portable media industry. I really do not. It accelerated the industry, sure. But people have always wanted portable music, and they always will. There would have been plenty of innovation in portable media players without iPod.



I like what Eric Raymond and Richard Stallman have said. Eric linked to a good opinion in the New York Times. Since I do not like the NYT paywall, I will not link to it. I do encourage you to read ESR's post. You can follow his link to the NYT editorial.
Eric S. Raymond's comments
Richard Stallman's comments

[ThinkRob]

Jobs was directly involved in 300+ patents.

His name was on them, yes. But I was under the impression -- perhaps incorrectly -- that he had his name put on all patents, including those that he didn't create. (I read that on Slashdot a while back, so take that with a grain of salt.)

Jobs was an inventor that focused on the big picture, and brought together skilled engineers who worked out the details under his guidance.

Woz was an inventor. Burrel Smith was an inventor. Raskin was an inventor. Hertzfield was an inventor.

Jobs was the guy who convinced them to invent the things they did.

QuickDraw was a great example. Atkinson invented a brilliant algorithm for drawing rounded rectangles quickly. But he only did it because Steve Jobs convinced him of the importance of being able to do so.

There's a difference between a great engineer and a great manager -- but a great company needs both.

Without the iPad, we not only wouldn't have slate tablets, but we probably also wouldn't see the widespread use of IPS screens (such as on the X220 Thinkpad). A few Thinkpads and desktop monitors had used IPS before the iPad, but this technology never caught on until Jobs popularized it.

!!

I disagree. Strongly. Apple certainly made IPS into a desirable marketing term, but I really don't think that they deserve credit for its "widespread use". In tablets? Sure. And yes, they did popularize that market. But asserting that the X220's use of IPS screens is due to the iPad? That's a massive leap of logic, and one that I don't think I agree with.

Without the Macbook Air, we would not have the nascent class of laptops known as the Ultrabooks.

No. I very much disagree. There were scores of subnotebooks before the MBA. They just weren't called "ultrabooks". Sony made ultralights as you mentioned. But so did Toshiba (back in the late 90s). IBM had the X series machines. Panasonic had subnotebooks.

Apple's addition to the market was emphasizing, and selling consumers on the notion that it was OK to pay far more for a notebook with fewer features, less flexibility, and less compatibility -- and that all that was OK because this one was really thin.

Again: they identified a market and capitalized on it. That was their strength. They didn't pioneer much of the technology -- just the packaging.

Without the iPod, we would probably be still walking around with discmen and CDs, perhaps even walkmen and cassette tapes.

No, just with lower-capacity, harder-to-use MP3 players. But again, no argument: they did well at popularizing the tech.

I believe Jobs has affected society in numerous other ways as well, e.g. desktop computers, motion pictures (through Pixar), business school curricula, etc. etc. Therefore, even though I don't own a single Apple product (besides a USB charger that I got for free), my life has been transformed by Jobs and I am thankful for that.

My first programs were written on a Mac IIci, running at a blazing 25 MHz with a fantastic 8 MB of RAM.

So yeah, in a way I owe him too. I gotta be honest though: I have a lot more respect for the engineers on the original Macintosh team. (To be fair though, that's probably because I'm a programmer as well. I can't really appreciate the beauty of clever business tricks as much as I can a clever algorithm or an elegant solution to a software problem.)

[ausmike]

............................... OOOOOHHHHAAAAAMMMMM ..................................
(sad)


<he was a Zen Buddist> and lover of all things SIMPLE
Thats one of things I admired about his 'chat' when I was lucky enough to meet him. Then you meet another person of similar - like 'his calibre' (another famous Zen Buddist who is a CEO of very famous Software company) and you come away feeling like you in a 'battle' and or feel de-jected to not SEE THE REAL PERSON! What impressed me most about Mr Jobs was his 'simplicity' and yet very FIRM also with 'soild techanical background'. He talked and walked 'technology' without being aggogant or obnoxious about his knowledge/acheivements. Yet this OTHER PERSON - jsut liked using 'fancy words' like JAVA BEANS etc - and used them in places where everyone (even his own staff) realsised stuff he talked is way beyound his knowledge thus a'laughable' BS.
BTW - which CEO (chairman of Comany;s BOARD) has gone down to their LOCAL TOWN HALL- Cupertino City Counciland apply for a "BUILDING PERMIT" - (there is a famous You-Tube footage about that incident - cannt seem to find it to link here!!) Steve was humble enough to do that - also 'engaged' enough to be in most fo all important aspects of HIS COMPANY ( ok some think - maybe he was too involved!)

Sorry - just thought pple would share things about THE MAN and HIS ACHEIVEMENTS(one has to admire what he did) - not get into HARDWARE/OS WAR!!!
peace!

edited- added links
___________________OOOHHHHHHAMMMMMM______________________

[pianowizard]

1) I think such designs would have been made. There already were thin phones, such as RAZR. There were big screens. Palm LifeDrive, which is not a phone but rather PDA, comes close. What I do believe is that without the influence of iPhone, there would be more devices with replaceable batteries.

Big-screen smartphones were extremely rare before the iPhone. But afterward, there has been a sharp increase in the number of big-screen smartphones. PDAs (such as the Dell Axim x51v that I used to have) are not smartphones.

I don't care for replaceable batteries. I have owned five phones (two smart and three dumb) and none of them needed their batteries replaced. To me, it's more important to make the device as light as possible, and I think it's a brilliant idea to make the battery non-replaceable to minimize size and weight.

2) Excuse me, what are you talking about? The slate idea has been around since at least about 1990....

I was aware of about half of the tablets you listed, and have even played with several of them. To me, the iPad is a new category. Even if you insist it's essentially the same kind of product, you have to admit that none of those earlier tablets were commercially successful. Before the iPad, few people knew about slate tablets, but now, everyone does.

"widespread use of IPS": Really now, what are you talking about?

Phones, tablets (both slate tablets and laptop tablets), HDTVs, an increasing number of desktop monitors, and a gradual return to laptops. True, there had been IPS products long before the iPad, but like I said, the general public wasn't aware of IPS until Jobs raved about it when introducing the iPad. Now that so many consumers know about and want IPS, more and more manufacturers are using IPS panels in their products.

4) There was healthy competition in the digital audio player industry before iPod. Some of them had equally bad, or even worse, DRM. Many had replaceable batteries (many even used standard AA and AAA cells). Maybe without iTunes, we would not have the shackled digital book stores from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Sony. Like iPhone, I think iPod has influenced the whole industry to use non-replaceable batteries.

I am not obsessed with replacing batteries, and so I don't find this an issue.

His name was on them, yes. But I was under the impression -- perhaps incorrectly -- that he had his name put on all patents, including those that he didn't create.

Indeed, you are incorrect. Upon Jobs' retirement back in August, a bunch of articles were written about his patents, which confirmed that he actually had contributed to these 300+ patents. The patent office is strictly against the inclusion of "honorary co-authors".

Woz was an inventor. Burrel Smith was an inventor. Raskin was an inventor. Hertzfield was an inventor. Jobs was the guy who convinced them to invent the things they did.

Yes he did, but he also made his own contributions, resulting in the above-mentioned patents.

There were scores of subnotebooks before the MBA. They just weren't called "ultrabooks". Sony made ultralights as you mentioned. But so did Toshiba (back in the late 90s). IBM had the X series machines. Panasonic had subnotebooks.

But none of these were phenomenally successful. The Macbook Air was the first that got lots of people interested in ultra-thin, ultra-light laptops. To me, the most desireable laptop currently on the market is the Sony Z2, and I believe that without the Macbook Air, Sony wouldn't have made it so light, high-res, and thin.

Again: they identified a market and capitalized on it. That was their strength. They didn't pioneer much of the technology -- just the packaging...they did well at popularizing the tech....I can't really appreciate the beauty of clever business tricks as much as I can a clever algorithm or an elegant solution to a software problem.)

I am grateful for Jobs' impact on society regardless of whether such impact is through packaging or marketing or managing.

[bill bolton]

First, you were thinking of the Western world...

Such as poor knowlege of the basic history of the electro-technology, on which the current world is utterly dependent, is simply abysmal.

[pianowizard]

Such as poor knowlege of the basic history of the electro-technology, on which the current world is utterly dependent, is simply abysmal.

Do you know what percentage of the world population had electricity at home in 1910? Because my knowledge of the basic history of the electro-technology is so abysmal, I don't know, but I do know the percentage of U.S. households with electricity in 1910: only about 15 %.

[ThinkRob]

But none of these were phenomenally successful. The Macbook Air was the first that got lots of people interested in ultra-thin, ultra-light laptops. To me, the most desireable laptop currently on the market is the Sony Z2, and I believe that without the Macbook Air, Sony wouldn't have made it so light, high-res, and thin.

Apart from the Sony X505, which came out *well* before the MBA. The screen wasn't as high-res, but then again *no* panels of that size were at the time.

Again, you are correct, the MacBook Air got lots of people interested in ultra-thin, ultra-light laptops [emphasis mine.] That's a sign of their marketing prowess, not necessarily their technical ability.

Part of the reason that I have trouble unabashedly praising Steve Jobs -- and I'll be honest here -- is that he worked hard throughout his career to limit consumer choice, often by directly eliminating things that engineering types find useful. Was that the right business decision? In a lot of ways, probably. Did it matter to most customers? Almost certainly not. But I *am* an engineering type, and I *do* like to tinker with electronics (I wouldn't have gotten into a computing career had I not already been used to mucking about with computers in my free time), and as such stories like this one bother me more than most people. Yes, I know he was far from the only one to make decisions like that. But it's still a pretty big ideological difference, and one that matters a good bit to me.

[BillMorrow]

interesting article about jobs biological father and their non-relationship.. he did have a late relationship with his biological mother and successful sister..
also interesting to note that both children of this syrian immigrant turned out successful..

[ausmike]

G'day uncle Bill;
seems we read same webpages - ah well maybe tpycial aussies to READ LOTS !!
yeah i thought it was instresting - that his 'father' wanted

'his son to call him ....Syrian pride in me does not want him ever to think I am after his fortune." ....[/i]'

blah blah ...i would guess a 'throw away son' would NEVERr want to talk to a FATHER who didnt care in first place ....let along worry he MIGHT WANT HIS MONEY !!
seems weird after all these years - WHY BOTHER NOW ! , wonder !

[ausmike]

Wow ...just been walkin past the Overhead TV @ BOS .... and CNN reported that Apple 'sold 4M in first 3 days of release to market'.....umm am sure its EVERY PRODUCT MANAGERs dream (or nighmare if in competition),,, thats 1600M - if take average price as $400US - in less than week of revenue!....

Yipeee.. ... from AAPL stock holder !!!

Love it or Hate it - you gota admire those kinda figures!

[AMATX]

............................... OOOOOHHHHAAAAAMMMMM ..................................
(sad)


<he was a Zen Buddist> and lover of all things SIMPLE
Thats one of things I admired about his 'chat' when I was lucky enough to meet him. Then you meet another person of similar - like 'his calibre' (another famous Zen Buddist who is a CEO of very famous Software company) and you come away feeling like you in a 'battle' and or feel de-jected to not SEE THE REAL PERSON! What impressed me most about Mr Jobs was his 'simplicity' and yet very FIRM also with 'soild techanical background'. He talked and walked 'technology' without being aggogant or obnoxious about his knowledge/acheivements. Yet this OTHER PERSON - jsut liked using 'fancy words' like JAVA BEANS etc - and used them in places where everyone (even his own staff) realsised stuff he talked is way beyound his knowledge thus a'laughable' BS.
BTW - which CEO (chairman of Comany;s BOARD) has gone down to their LOCAL TOWN HALL- Cupertino City Counciland apply for a "BUILDING PERMIT" - (there is a famous You-Tube footage about that incident - cannt seem to find it to link here!!) Steve was humble enough to do that - also 'engaged' enough to be in most fo all important aspects of HIS COMPANY ( ok some think - maybe he was too involved!)

Sorry - just thought pple would share things about THE MAN and HIS ACHEIVEMENTS(one has to admire what he did) - not get into HARDWARE/OS WAR!!!
peace!

edited- added links
___________________OOOHHHHHHAMMMMMM______________________

HA! I think I know of the 'other CEO' Zen dude(not sure how authentically Zen-ish he really is) to whom you refer(who also likes boats, righto? ), and while I have personal respect for Jobs, I have none for this other guy. Sleazy company tactics, somewhat sleazy guy personally; certainly no oracle of tech trends like Jobs was; just another hard a$$ money grubbing CEO from what I can tell.

[twillis449]

Steve Jobs - absolutely the greatest salesperson of the personal computer era.

[killer]

"Steve Jobs vowed to 'destroy' Android." Story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15400984

[AvalonXIII]

For such a Zen Buddhist, the man sure has a lot of hate in him:

http://www.neowin.net/news/bill-gates-r ... -biography

Bravo to Bill Gates for taking the high route to insults from a very bitter man, no matter how brilliant he is as a marketer.