Lenovo ThinkPad buying advice please!

[A31]

Good day all,

I am going into further education in September 2014 and I am looking around at laptops. I will be taking the laptop to school each day and I will be doing the following things with it:

- Programming (using Visual Studio or something similar)
- Photo editing (using Adobe Phtoshop CS5.1)
- Web design (using Adobe Dreamweaver CS5.5)
- Maybe stuff like animation too using the other bits of the Adobe suite
- And of course the usual office stuff and the internet.

I am considering other manufacturers too (namely HP, ASUS and Sony) but I just want to know if there is a Lenovo ThinkPad (or other Lenovo laptop) which will meet my requirements below and I can buy new (I would like to buy something new but willing to go second hand or refurb on latest models).

Screen size: 13.3", 14" or 15.6" (I know 15.6" is relatively large but I see you get more for your money with 15.6")
Weight: As light as possible
Screen resolution: As high as possible, probably 1366x768 minimum
RAM: 4GB or more. I don't mind upgrading it myself
CPU: i3 or i5 (not interested in AMD or anything slower than an i3)
A good long battery life, maybe around 5-6 hours
HDD: I don't really mind, 500GB would be good, but I plan on maybe getting a 128GB SSD down the road anyway
OS: Windows 7 64-bit (Pro would be good) but Windows 8 ideally (again, Pro would be good)
GPU: Don't mind

Budget: Up to ~£650
Buying time: When I have the money, but before September 2014. I am hoping to buy around January/February 2014 maybe.

I've already done some looking around and I've found that the Edge series (don't throw sticks and stones at me, please) seem like good value for money. I've found an Edge with an i3, 4GB of RAM and a 500GB HDD (with Windows 7 Pro) for £382 http://www.shop.bt.com/products/lenovo- ... pad%20edge

Maybe something along those lines would be good.

As I've said, I am looking at other laptops too, but I just want to see what Lenovo laptops people recommend.

Thanks all, any questions please ask.

[Ibthink]

If you are looking at the Edge Series, take a look on the L-Series: http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/l-series/

Also very in-expensive, a more classic ThinkPad design (for example the hinges, the overall form of the chassis), better quality, Dockingport. The L-Series is the replacement of the R-Series.

These two models are with Ivy-Bridge, so last years generation, the successors L440 and L540 are already out in several countries (it seems not yet available in the UK).

I would definitely recommend them over the Edge-Series.

[ssd_thinkpad]

If you buy next year you can get a nice t440s with 14 inch FHD.

[A31]

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

As for the Ivy vs Haswell debate, I'm not too fussed about which I go for. I'm still running Sandy in my desktop, though I appreciate laptop chips are of course different.

I have taken a look at the L430 and L530, yes, I like them. A lot. Thanks for letting me know about those.

As for the T440s, it's a little pricey - if I were to order it directly from Lenovo it'd cost over £1,000 which is over my budget. I'm taking this laptop to school so I really don't want something which stands out too much.

The other laptops I am looking at are the ASUS X550 and the HP ProBook 450 (probably with an i5 and I'll upgrade the RAM to 8GB or 16GB myself). I think I have disregarded the ASUS now having seen it flex quite a lot, so I think it's probably between the L430 and the ProBook 450.

Anybody else got any other suggestions from Lenovo up to £650 or thereabouts?

Edit: Just having a look in the Lenovo shop and I've seen the S440 is about the same cost as the L430 http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/th ... ries/s440/ how does it stack up? What are the key differences?

[Ibthink]

The S440 compared with the L430 (or L440 in the future) is the battle between an "classical notebook" and an Ultrabook. Here is a nice review for the S440 that may help you out a bit: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 047.0.html

So for the S440, the pros could summed up like this:
- Far more mobile with a lighter, thinner and smaller chassis
- "Higher End" case materials (good build quaility)
- Touchscreen (if you need/want one)

Cons:
- Much less ports
- Integrated battery
- No DVD drive
- ULV CPUs (Standard Voltage CPUs in the L-Series might be a better fit for your tasks)

Based on your needs and wants, I would decide between the L430 (or L440) and S440, and the ProBook. L-Series and the Probook are more of a classical Budget-line, where as the S-Series is one of the new Ultrabook-lines.

[A31]

Thanks for telling me about the differences. I will take a read of that review. I was just reading a review on the L430 and the PB450 on that site.

If the S440 is lighter and more mobile then that may be a good option for me. I'm not fussed about the touchscreen or having an optical drive, but wouldn't mind having one or the other either.

Though I must admit I had forgotten how much I liked the ThinkPad looks until I saw the L430. It does look very nice and the higher-end CPUs would probably be appreciated more than a touchscreen.

Right, I'll take a read of that review, thanks.

[A31]

I think I'm going to stick with the L430 from a performance point-of-view (I prefer the looks too).

Ok. I've been to Lenovo's website and configured an L430:

Intel Core i5-3230M Processor (3MB Cache, up to 3.20GHz)
Windows 8 64
14.0" HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit AntiGlare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
Intel HD Graphics 4000, Mobile Broadband ready
8 GB DDR3 - 1600MHz (2 DIMM)
UltraNav without Fingerprint Reader
320GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer
6 Cell Li-Ion TWL 70+
Bluetooth 4.0 with Antenna
ThinkPad 1x1 b/g/n
Mobile Broadband upgradable
None
1 Year Depot/Express Warranty

Does this look good?

It's about £681 or so. I could save some money by going to the 1366x768 screen and dropping the wireless mouse. I could go down to an i3 but I'd rather keep the i5 I think.

Windows 8 Pro x64 was a little pricey and since I already have a copy of it I can install it myself.

[Ibthink]

Sounds good, a solid config for the money.

I would recommend to not downgrade to the 1366x768 screen. The 1600x900 screen is no quality-miracle either, but HD is so low, it hard to work with this resolution.

[A31]

Sounds good, a solid config for the money.

I would recommend to not downgrade to the 1366x768 screen. The 1600x900 screen is no quality-miracle either, but HD is so low, it hard to work with this resolution.

Yeah that was my understanding too which is why I selected the 1600x900 screen. It's only about 30 quid or so more expensive and for that money it's almost daft not to do it I think.

I think I'll drop the mouse to save some money money though. I can live with the TrackPoint and the touchpad.

Thank you all for the advice, I think if I buy Lenovo I'll buy one of these. I must admit, I do rather like it. Now I just need to decide between it and the HP.

[A31]

Quick question for you ThinkPad experts!

What is the build quality difference between the L430 and the E530 like? Is the L430 significantly better built? Is the E530 still relatively well-built?

So long as neither flex like this ASUS, I'm happy. http://youtu.be/L0cDeG75_8k?t=1m50s

I've used the HP ProBooks before and I know they are well-built, so I'm just unsure what the build quality difference between the E530 and the L430 is like.

Thanks.

[Ibthink]

For the L430, you can refer to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceQgGTfmDRs Looks a bit much, but I think this tester uses much more force to press down the keyboard than the tester in the Asus-review video. In my experince the L-Series doesn´t flex if you type normal. The Edge Series should be similar. Both are well-built for the price, but the L-Series seems a bit more robsut to me with thicker plastics, real steel hinges (not fake ones like on the Edge Series) and also a spill-resistant keyboard (the older Edge models lack the drainage holes).

[ssd_thinkpad]

Budget: Up to ~£650
Buying time: When I have the money, but before September 2014.

At that time you will get the T440s for your budget.

[A31]

Thanks guys, looks like the L430 is well-built. I will probably end up going for one of those and if I cannot afford one I'll get the Edge - if I buy Lenovo.

I went to my local computer store today to have a look at some laptops. I had a go with the ASUS X550. Seemed OK actually, didn't flex too much but I think I'd rather have a ThinkPad or a ProBook.

Regarding the T440s, although I do not need the laptop by September 2014, I would like to buy one before then, so we will see how much the T440s costs when I buy. How much heavier is it than the L430? I want to keep my machine as light as possible but I need a larger display for my programming and design work.

[Ibthink]

The T440s is the lightest 14" ThinkPad yet. It has a 14" screen in a 13" chassis and weights almost the same as an older 12" X-Series (1.6 kg vs. 1.5 kg v of the X220 for example).

Of course the T440s is the best 14" machine that Lenovo has on the market at the moment, but it also can cost a load. I wouldn´t expect it to get much more affordable until the end of 2014.

[A31]

I definitely need to buy before the end of 2014, I am hoping to buy in the first or second quarter maybe. I'd also quite like to buy something new too.

I think an L430 might be good for me. I've seen the L440 is for sale on the US Lenovo website but on the UK one. Is the L440 the L430's successor? If so, when might it be available in the UK and at what cost? I presume I could get a new L430 a bit cheaper than what they cost today once the 440 has replaced it?

[Ibthink]

Right, the L440 is the successor of the L430. It should be available in the UK pretty soon, not yet, and should cost around the same as the L430.

When the L440 will be available, the L430 will start to disappear. So if you buy the Notebook in 2014, it is likely that the L430 won´t be available anymore.

[A31]

Right, the L440 is the successor of the L430. It should be available in the UK pretty soon, not yet, and should cost around the same as the L430.

When the L440 will be available, the L430 will start to disappear. So if you buy the Notebook in 2014, it is likely that the L430 won´t be available anymore.

Thanks for confirming this.

I think what I will do is wait and see what is available on the market when I buy. At least now I know the specific product line which I'm interested in so I can look out for updates.

As you know, I'm looking to buy early next year probably, so by then the L440 might be out. If so, I'll buy one if I can get one new for the same cost of the L430 today. I can't find any release dates at the moment, so if when I have the cash the 440 isn't out I will probably just spring for the 430 unless the 440 is like a few weeks away.

I'm also trying to find out if the HP ProBook 450 is going to be succeeded at some point in the near future. It looks like the ones I am looking at came out in January 2013 so they might not be replaced for a little while.

I may run a couple of virtual machines with the laptop using VirtualBox or VMware (not decided which yet). I've seen that the i5 I can configure the L430 with does support virtualization, so it should be OK for virtual machines I hope. I'd probably run a VM of XP and 7 and have 8.1 as the host OS - just to test my programs and stuff out on.

If it won't do virtual machines, don't worry. I have a desktop with an overclocked i5 2500K and 16 gigs of RAM which I already run virtual machines on, so it's not the end of the world.

[A31]

Update time.

I still can't find anything out about the L440 coming to the UK, but besides from the Haswell CPU over the Ivy - and the redesigned UltraNav, it looks kind of the same. I have asked Lenovo when the L440 is coming to the UK and as of yet, I've not had a response.

By the time I have the money, I reckon the L440 will be here so I'll probably buy that. What spec it will be depends on my money but I have decided I would really like to configure it with at least an i5 because I can't really change the CPU later. I'd like the 1600x900 display too and if I can afford it, I'll go for it but if not I'll settle with 1366x768. RAM wise - it'd be good to have 8GB out of the box but I can easily upgrade the RAM myself if I need to, whereas I can't upgrade the screen resolution at all or the CPU easily.

'Second best' would be the HP I guess, though I'd be very happy with one of those since I really like them too. I don't think I'll buy an Edge. I'll go for lower-end L430/L440 or the ProBook 450 over the Edge. It's a matter of build quality I think.

As you can probably tell, I have decided that I want the ThinkPad - an L430 or L440 to be specific. Though I will get the ProBook if it is a lot cheaper and I can get a similar spec.

Thanks to all for all of your help, I may be returning to the 'ThinkPad party' next year.

[A31]

I'm still looking at the possibility of a new L440 which will probably set me back just short of £700 if I configured with 8GB of RAM and an HD+ display (probably looking at just short of £600 for 4GB of RAM and the HD display), but I've been looking on eBay at used and refurbished T430s - they look good and the can be had for around the £500 mark.

What do you think of that? Would a lightly-used or refurbished T430 be better than a brand new L440? Better-built I presume since it's a higher-end model, and the spec is usually about the same but they're usually quite a bit cheaper.

[ajkula66]

What do you think of that? Would a lightly-used or refurbished T430 be better than a brand new L440? Better-built I presume since it's a higher-end model, and the spec is usually about the same but they're usually quite a bit cheaper.

Beware of the lousy screens that plagued both T420 and T430 series. If that aspect matters to begin with.

Apart from that, you should be OK.

[A31]

Beware of the lousy screens that plagued both T420 and T430 series. If that aspect matters to begin with.

Apart from that, you should be OK.

OK, thanks for letting me know about that. 'Lousy screens' - in what way exactly? Picture quality? Build quality?

[pianowizard]

'Lousy screens' - in what way exactly? Picture quality? Build quality?

Appallingly narrow viewing angles, low contrast, and terrible colors. I have seen a T430 up close and swear it's one of the three worst laptop screens I have ever witnessed (and yes, I have used laptops made in the 1990s).

[A31]

'Lousy screens' - in what way exactly? Picture quality? Build quality?

Appallingly narrow viewing angles, low contrast, and terrible colors. I have seen a T430 up close and swear it's one of the three worst laptop screens I have ever witnessed (and yes, I have used laptops made in the 1990s).

Oh. Well that sounds great.

Other than that, are the T430s good machines?

I think if I can get one used or refurbished for around £500, then it's probably better value than a brand new L440 for around £700 isn't it?

[ajkula66]

Oh. Well that sounds great.

Other than that, are the T430s good machines?

I think if I can get one used or refurbished for around £500, then it's probably better value than a brand new L440 for around £700 isn't it?

Here's my take on this...

I wasn't overly impressed by T420 and T430 and their variations.

IF you can live with 8GB RAM roof and want to save money, get a refurbished/used T410/s with 1440x900 LCD. The only thing that will be missing from your "must have" list will be battery life. You will get a *vastly* superior screen in return when compared to the junk that shipped on T420/430/431s

If that's too old, wait for L440 or some of its competitors from Dell/HP.

Good luck.

[A31]

OK. Ideally I'd like something a bit newer than a T410, but I will take a decision when I have the money.

Thank you.

[A31]

Tried to give Lenovo a ring today to find out how much the L440 is going to cost from their website. They have the laptop listed but they don't have a sale price yet, so clearly it's not in their UK store yet, but I just wanted an idea of cost. So I rang their number but I ended up ending the call because they put me on hold for so long and it was costing me a lot of money (I rang from my mobile phone). I'll just keep checking the site and see how much it costs when it comes up - I think the pricing will be like that of the L430.

If I buy new, I really want to buy it direct from Lenovo because I can customise it and have it exactly how I want. I am aware it will take about 2 weeks to arrive as opposed to maybe 2 or 3 days from somewhere like Amazon (the benefits of living in a small country! ) but if it means I can save money and spec it how I like, I'm prepared to wait.

I have been doing some of my research regarding the screens on the T430 laptops and it does appear that they aren't great, but a used T430 is probably going to be cheaper than a brand new L440 and probably about the same kind of spec. Maybe better-built overall too,

Some people recommend replacing the screen on the T430 for a T440 screen or an X1 screen - see this article on ThinkWiki: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Replacing ... better_one. I am familiar with replacing laptop screens so I'm not afraid to do it, and I see that the screens for T440s and X1s are quite cheap on eBay. Would it be worth picking up a lightly-used T430 and a T440 or X1 screen and fitting it? Would I void the warranty (if any is left) if I did this though?

[ajkula66]

While you might be able to swap a screen on T430 with a X1C unit, that's not going to fly with any of the *40 series since the connectors are entirely different.

Judging by some comments, it appears that the new L models might actually be built better than the T430 which was nothing to write home about to begin with.

Since you're not in that much of a hurry, I'd hold off on pulling the trigger on anything right now.

My $0.02 only...

[A31]

Alright then - I think I'll just get an L440. Some places here in the UK are already selling them, hopefully Lenovo will be selling them directly soon.

[A31]

By sheer coincidence, Lenovo has put prices up for the L440 on their UK store the day after I phoned them about it.

Here we go. There are several little upgrades I did such as add the fingerprint reader for £3.60 and also upgrade to a slightly bigger battery for about £10 and add a webcam for £12, but the main things are the i5, the 1600x900 display and the 8GB of DDR3 1600MHz RAM.

Here is what I'm looking at for a new L440:

Intel Core i5-4200M Processor (3MB Cache, up to 3.10GHz)
Windows 8 64
14.0" HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit Anti-Glare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
Intel HD Graphics 4600
8 GB DDR3L - 1600MHz (2 DIMM)
Ultranav with Fingerprint Reader
500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer
6 Cell Li-Ion Cylindrical Battery 56.16Wh
Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6235 BT Combo (2x2 AGN)
Integrated Mobile Broadband upgradable
1 Year Depot or Carry-in

That comes to £731.99 - I can get it down to £700 or thereabouts if I drop the upgraded battery and the webcam. This seems like a good deal to me, I think I'll go with this if I buy new.

[emeraldgirl08]

Perhaps you could haggle with Lenovo for a slightly lower price as well? I have no experience with haggling but I have read reports from others that they were successful in negotiating a small price reduction. Just a thought and if anyone who has experience could chime in please do. Good luck A31!