Lenovo 2014 keyboard layout - WARNING !

[Puppy]

Could it have been even worse than 40 models ? Sure https://www.facebook.com/lenovo namely this picture https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 8189_o.jpg

Update: 14" 2560 x 1440 IPS
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/5/527729 ... -announced
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykdl9nbwLAc&7063695

Looks quite good, unfortunately the keyboard layout kills it at all

Update 2: All current comments on the The Verge article are negative about the keyboard. Who actually wants that ?

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

For me the *30 series keyboard was already bad enough.

Besides a whole lot of other keys they now got rid of CAPS lock? I guess they now make stuff "For those who do... search for missing keys"

[Puppy]

Besides a whole lot of other keys they now got rid of CAPS lock?

The location of Home/End keys is really creative. Don't you think ? Maybe to sort the keys alphabetically would improve it ...

[dr_st]

Honestly, once you already mess with the layout, it makes little difference where exactly you place which keys.

One can think of advantages to having the Home/End where they are, compared to where they were, and disadvantages too.

It seems that the keyboard team in Lenovo is finally getting some creative freedom after ~2 decades of complete starvation.

It looks nice, that's true. But touch buttons for the function keys is bad. Almost in every possible case, touch button is worse than a mechanical button. I hate the touch buttons on my "high-end" DELL U2410 monitor, and wish it had normal mechanical buttons like my 2209WA and some "low-end" monitors.

[Adda]

It is hopeless.

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Honestly, once you already mess with the layout, it makes little difference where exactly you place which keys.

One can think of advantages to having the Home/End where they are, compared to where they were, and disadvantages too.

It seems that the keyboard team in Lenovo is finally getting some creative freedom after ~2 decades of complete starvation.

It looks nice, that's true. But touch buttons for the function keys is bad. Almost in every possible case, touch button is worse than a mechanical button. I hate the touch buttons on my "high-end" DELL U2410 monitor, and wish it had normal mechanical buttons like my 2209WA and some "low-end" monitors.

Ha, creative freedom? More like a forever restrained adolescent that gets to use paddo's and then "designs" a keyboard. What keyboard "team" btw? That should be a one man job since there is nothing to think through since nothing has to change besides thinking about a new color for the volume keys, and the person that's in that job for the past few years should be [....]

That there might be advantages and disadvantages to this new-new "layout" is all fine and well, but since keyboard layout is supposed to be a standard and I'm no guinea pig I propose they test it somewhere else. Maybe in prisons (I guess that's unethical).

The nice thing about a fixed layout is that no matter how old the stuff is; it works the same. I can go from W520 to T61 with (almost) zero need to adapt to anything. Same for my new desktop keyboard, my dad's keyboards from the '80s, the older Latitude's in use by my brothers, etc.

But these current developments are just irritating the heck out of people that do serious work. Just because the average user is too ignorant to learn some shortkeys (since RSI treatment is in the mandatory health insurance package?) doesn't mean we should get rid of those keys. Perhaps they will get rid of keys like ',.?; next since so many people don't use them....

As for the touch buttons on the U2410: hehe, my 3007WFP-HC receives the same hate, luckily the 2007FP escaped that craze.

[A31]

I'll be buying an L440 in the summer, so I will let you all know what I think of the keyboard (and the machine itself!) And yes, I have used older ThinkPads - an A31 and an R40 (but not about 4 years now).

It looks to me like the L440 does have a Caps Lock key http://www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/10 ... oard-2.jpg

Seems like an odd decision to remove it from some of their laptops though.

Not strictly to do with the 'keyboard layout' but it is my understanding that Lenovo has now removed the dedicated TrackPoint buttons and is now using a 'click pad' to make the touchpad bigger and easier to use with Windows 8 when using mouse gestures.

[Summilux]

I agree with some comments above:
- Just another iteration in a post-"7-row, non-island" world. No drama here, for all has already been lost few generations ago.
- It does look slick, nice and all. All unnecessary elements for browsing Facebook are being further eliminated. But what is that thing doing on a Thinkpad? Oh wait, that's an iThink.

Now, to cut with my usual sarcasms on the keyboard topic for a change, I'll opine that the new "home/end" placement does have its merits for who rarely uses the Caps Lock key. I could see myself make do with a combined Caps/Caps Lock key, where for example the Lock function would be activated after three successive pressures. In exchange, I would get an even easier access to the Home/End keys that I use more often.

[Puppy]

The nice thing about a fixed layout is that no matter how old the stuff is; it works the same. I can go from W520 to T61 with (almost) zero need to adapt to anything. Same for my new desktop keyboard

This is also my primary concern about keyboard layout. PC keyboard layout is here with almost zero changes for more than 20 years proven to be good. ThinkPad S30/S31 and X3x to X6x also prove the layout does not need many changes in small machine.

[dr_st]

As for the touch buttons on the U2410: hehe, my 3007WFP-HC receives the same hate, luckily the 2007FP escaped that craze.

The buttons on the 2007FP (and WFP and 2407WFP) are horrible in their own right, though.

[Adda]

Update 2: All current comments on the The Verge article are negative about the keyboard. Who actually wants that ?

No no, you got it all wrong, the masses have spoken, Lenovo made the changes because they listened to the silent majority.
We are just Dinosaurs, because we grew up with computers, we don't know what real computers are like, we only had junk when we where kids.

So you are wrong, people are not complaining, they are celebrating the wonderful innovation coming out of Lenovo!
They just don't care to tell about it anywhere, or educate us Dinosaurs about proper computer use, hell we come from a time where things had to be done MANUALLY!? our perceptions are not relevant anymore, out with the old in with the new!

It's hard to compete in this day and age, Lenovo has to innovate to survive, Apple is hot on their heels, they even managed to put USB ports on opposite sides of their laptops, just how is Lenovo supposed to compete with that?
Two full size USB devices plugged in to ONE laptop, that is just too good to be true, who cares if the screen is fused, screws need a special screw driver, and everything is soldered to the board (for starters), TWO USB devices baby, and the reviewers love it, best MacBook ever!

All Lenovo can do to stay afloat is to alienate their traditional costumers and put as few buttons on their laptops as possible, I repeat TWO USB devices, Lenovo HAS to do something, ANYTHING, they don't have a choice, the people have spoken!

(caugh AAAH what just happened, I seem have acquired another head ache).

[ajkula66]

It is hopeless.

Indeed.

[Saucey]

I... I kinda like it.
At least the woosh and shwish hand gestures, but then again I never used that feature on my Galaxy S4.
The screen is nice and the design is OK. I really wish they marketed it as an IdeaPad now.
It makes much more sense if it was an IdeaPad in the first place.

Hopefully since Lenovo seems to like my photos on Instagram maybe they will mail me a new X1C so I can take more photos.

I agree yes, I don't use caps that often, but I do use it for spredsheets.
Maybe double tap alt or ctrl can enable caps.
The ~ button is retarded however, why couldn't they just put the window key there and tossed back FN to where it should be...
Pg up/dn will take me some time getting used to, but ill miss the back and forward buttons.
I'm going to miss the wavy indent that used to be on the directional keys however.

I really dislike the backspace button being eaten by delete...
I always mispress = or \ on my x61t but now that corner has delete?!

[jdk]

Just like the destruction of the Thinkpad keyboard started with the innocuous switch to chiclet keys, so too has Lenovo begun its assault the trackpoint, whose use has been castrated by removal of dedicated hardware buttons.

Was the old keyboard layout really hurting sales? Will the revenue generated from first time buyers who like the new Thinkpad offset the loss of diehards who picked the brand specifically because of the keyboard and trackpoint?

We are all guilty of this abomination, for continuing to line this company's pockets even and recommending their product to others.

[dr_st]

We are all guilty of this abomination, for continuing to line this company's pockets even and recommending their product to others.

I don't know about you, but I stopped. On both counts.

[jdk]

We are all guilty of this abomination, for continuing to line this company's pockets even and recommending their product to others.

I don't know about you, but I stopped. On both counts.

I am guilty of being optimistic about the chiclet keyboard and even recommending the Yoga to a family member. Recommendations are now for the Macbook or Elitebook depending on use case. Or a Chromebook or Tab-o-let for people who have no use case. Apologies to the Dell enthusiasts on this site, I stopped working with those machines around the time the replacement for the overheating E6410 series came out (admittedly, the Latitude was very easy to tear down).

[Adda]

Well lets see, usage patterns I use constantly, that have been ruined by the keyboard and trackpoint changes include:

Right hand on PgUp/PgDn + backspace, left hand on trackpoint.
For quick scrolling and accurate mousing, but this can't be done any more, and PgUp/PgDn have been moved away from backspace, and the trackpoint is useless.

Ok ok, what about right hand on arrow keys + browser back/forth, and left on trackpoint?
No no, you are not supposed to navigate your computer or the web effectively, use the touchpad and click the [censored] icons.

And these are everyday things, not some irrelevant professionals usage pattern with some arcane software that no average consumer uses, the notebook are for "those who do" remember?

What they want is keys without tactile feedback whose functions change depending on which app is run, who cares for muscle memory and efficiency, and all the crap that comes along with computers trying to guess a persons needs, fewer buttons for the sake of innovation!

[Puppy]

fewer buttons for the sake of innovation!

Taken from Lenovo Blog comments http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaemb ... iginal.jpg

[Adda]

fewer buttons for the sake of innovation!

Taken from Lenovo Blog comments http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaemb ... iginal.jpg

That looks great, now all they need to do is upgrade the volume keys in to the play/pause/skip keys!

[bluefruit]

David Hill on the new X1 Carbon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE-To8_0etM

[Summilux]

Peter Bright on the new X1's keyboard: Stop trying to innovate keyboards. You’re just making them worse

[QWERTY Andreas]

I would be all for it, if they did it with physical keys

Ie. the Razor laptop with keys, featuring small OLED displays. Thus it could have been the best of both worlds.

[dr_st]

Peter Bright on the new X1's keyboard: Stop trying to innovate keyboards. You’re just making them worse

That's a very well-written one, with some great analogies and examples. Doubly recommended.

[Puppy]

Peter Bright on the new X1's keyboard: Stop trying to innovate keyboards. You’re just making them worse

Excellent article Unfortunately it will have zero effect on Lenovo decision on destroying ThinkPad features.

[RealBlackStuff]

Those keyboards are gotting more and more disgusting with every new development.
Lenovo keyboard destructors (NOT designers!): you should all be shot!

[dr_st]

Lenovo keyboard destructors (NOT designers!): you should all be shot!

Let it be noted that I was not the one who suggested this!

[Adda]

Those keyboards are gotting more and more disgusting with every new development.
Lenovo keyboard destructors (NOT designers!): you should all be shot!

C'mon you should be celebrating like virtually everybody else!

This is the golden age of computers didn't you know?

[emeraldgirl08]

^^^ Or one could make like a sheep and accept dogmatic spoon-feeding. Really- that new keyboard pales in comparison to the T61 NMB keyboard I am typing on now. Whatever happened to simplicity is the best design? What bothers me is how Lenovo takes their supposedly flagship models slaps questionable design features on them and expects their loyal customers to not say a word. Preposterous indeed. I have refrained from commenting on this topic but after seeing that new keyboard design I would like to say that my expectations from a ThinkPad involve both a certain level of professional and scrupulous planning from the baby-faced ThinkPad design team. After all the ThinkPad will travel nearly everywhere with me and in my two-cent opinion I am the employer and the ThinkPad is my employee. Alas I expect the keyboard design that I am familiar with and love to continue its transformation from a practical tool into some sort of unnecessary design quirkiness/pacifier for the sheeple. At the end of the day it is just about making profits for Lenovo after all

[RealBlackStuff]

C'mon you should be celebrating like virtually everybody else!

Only those destructors at Lenovo are HOPING for that!
"Virtual" means: in your dreams, Lenovo!

[Summilux]

But come on, virtuality enhances multitasking