Patent usage question, trackpoint.

[Ole]

So, I see a lot of other companies have trackpoints in their devices. I've only tested HP and Dell, and found them both to be inferior to thinkpads. But, with the recent popup of small scale laptop producers, now that Lenovo is basically killing off the true trackpoint with buttons. What's to stop these companies from basically doing a form-mold of the thinkpad as we know it? I mean, I can vaguely remember seeing a Atom powered fakepad that looked exactly like a x220...


Anyone have any insights on patents and laws around this?

[Summilux]

Well, patents rarely stop counterfeiting producers from ripping off these registered ideas...

What I'm wondering is if the third, central trackpoint button has been patented. The one button HP & Dell haven't implemented. Surely they would have were the design free of any patent, given how it is appreciated by Thinkpad users

[emeraldgirl08]

The middle trackpoint button is present on my Latitude E6510. I am able to use it to scroll through websites as I do with the ThinkPad Trackpoint as well. I believe it was the older Latitudes that did not have the middle trackpoint button.

[Summilux]

I stand corrected, thank you for the info Emeraldgirl.

What's not to like, then? There could still be a story of patents behind that, but that leaves some hope. Maybe one day we'll see a Kickstarter project for a 7-row, non-chiclet, three-buttoned trackpoint keyboard; with both a USB and laptop version (for open-source projects like the Novena)

Look, they're even selling a 500US$ aluminium NES; in 10 years or so our keyboards will finally make a comeback - be it for us or for the future hipsters, their will be a market

[Johan]

I don't much about the history of trackpoints, but I do know a bit about patents, so I just Google'd a bit and according to Lenovo Reinvents the IBM TrackPoint - Patent Bolt (posted at research.microsoft.com) and Trackpoint, I then used the Patbase database to search for patents invented by "Selker" and assigned to IBM, and issued (= published as an US-patent) in 1996, and I believe that the particular patent mentioned in Bill Buxton's notes may probably be US5579033; "Pointing device for retrofitting onto the keyboard of an existing computer system" (see it e.g. for free at the Espacenet site or at the USPTO site.

Now, if you see the Espacenet site (linked to above), and select "INPADOC legal status" in the leftmost menu, then you will read the following legal status of this particular patent:

Expired Due To Failure To Pay Maintenance Fee
Effective date: 20041126

(the same information can be retrieved via the USPTO Patent Application Information Retrieval site).

So, this particular patent has expired owing to lack of payment of the renewal fee. The principles and techniques described in the patent is therefore now in the public domain. After a patent has expired, or has been given up, and can no longer be reassigned or extended (for whatever reason; lack of payment, failure to meet deadlines, age = after having been issued the maximum number of years etc.), then anyone may make, use, offer for sale or sell or import products using the the invention without permission of the patentee, provided that the matter (product etc.) is not covered by other unexpired patents. One case where an expired patent however cannot necessarily be freely used, is where a continuation patent (or -application) is in force; see Continuation Applications and Their Affect on the Public Availability of Material Disclosed (But Not Claimed) in Patents.

By the way, if you make a Citation Search based on US5579033 you will see that there are 26 subsequent US-patents and applications citing US5579033, and it is likely to believe that one or more of these (newer) patents are covering inventions used in today's TrackPoint (NB: There are an additional number of non-US patents also citing US5579033). So, the fact that what may! be the initial patent (US5579033) is no longer valid, does not automatically mean that you (or someone else!) can directly copy today's TrackPoints. Also notice that there may obviously be other (in-force!) patents, related to TrackPoint technology, which do not refer to US5579033, so patent infringement is still easily possibly even in the case you do not violate anything in these 26 patents/applications!

Patents are pretty tricky...

Johan

[Ole]

Thanks for the great comment Johan! Hopefully there is still a market for the three-button trackpoint, and maybe somewhere there are someone with the guts and money to jump on it and fill that market

[jdk]

Thanks for the great comment Johan! Hopefully there is still a market for the three-button trackpoint, and maybe somewhere there are someone with the guts and money to jump on it and fill that market

http://laptop-computer-planet.com/blog/ ... 285139.jpg (Samsung)

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/d/607 ... 40+_2_.JPG (Dell)

http://i.testfreaks.com/images/products ... 693482.jpg (HP)

You still have reasonable choices.

Admin edit: Removed inline images and replaced with links. Only the last image was <50KB.

[Ole]

Hm, maybe if i glued something on to emulate the "edges" (or what to call it in english) on the trackpoint buttons it could work out fine! Got to see if I can find them on display in a store to test them.

[Summilux]

Great post, Johan! Thank you for your research and explanations.