Old ThinkPad buying advice, please share your thoughts!

[iamthatiam]

Hi TPforums, this is my first post.

I've owned (and cherished) my first Thinkpad (T420) since November 2011, and while I plan to use it until it becomes unusable, I've been looking for another computer to tinker with, specifically one to run BSD (haven't decided FreeBSD or OpenBSD yet). I don't need current-gen specs, as I'll mostly be text-editing/programming on it. I've spent/wasted hours looking at non-Thinkpad alternatives, specifically the Toshiba Portege R600 and the nb305, but... I can't say they'd do better than a Thinkpad so my laptop collection will have to stay black . When I thought of what I don't like about my t420, two things came to mind:
-widescreen (i rarely watch videos on my notebooks )
-the screen bezel (iirc, the large empty area on the lower part of the screen was due to lenovo switching to the 16:9 aspect ratio)

Here's what I want out of a new machine:
-small screen bezels
-4:3 aspect ratio (curious to see if word processing/coding is easier on the eyes)
-reasonable battery life 3-4+hrs uptime
-older than my t420 --- my brother in law uses an x230 at work and... that thing is flimsy.
-lighter than my t420 (with 9-cell battery)

With these specs in mind, I think I should get an x61s... Since I'm not gaming/using windows/watching youtube, the low power cpu will probably be more than enough to compile small projects and perform administrative tasks... but I fear I may be wrong or perhaps ignorant, so I hope that some members can chime in and let me know what their thoughts are... perhaps I can be pleasantly surprised by a recommendation or two...

ps: i wouldn't mind getting an older model because they look cute for lack of a better way to say it. specifically the x41 looks very nice, but I have no idea of what kind of battery life x41 gets (esp on gnu/linux/unix). so please let me know if you know!

[ZaZ]

If you want a smaller ThinkPad and don't mind a slower CPU, the X3x machines could be worth a look. The X4x machines use a funky hard drive that is very slow and noisy. I think they make a mSATA drive adapter, which would allow to use a mSATA SSD, but that'd be more money.

Usually you hear from coders that they want more real estate, but a X6x won't give you that if you care. A T61 could get you a SXGA+ LCD, though is generally not lighter than the T420. Though wide screen, the Z60t(Pentium M) or Z61t(Core Duo/Core 2 Duo) are underrated. You can get the Z61t with a WXGA+ LCD and they use brighter LCDs than most of other ThinkPads of the era. I think they're about a half pound lighter than other 14" ThinkPads. If you can find a Z60t or Z61t with a titanium lid in good shape, which will be hard to do since they were somewhat rare, they're one of the best looking ThinkPads of recent memory.

[iamthatiam]

i'm pretty determined to get a 4:3 thinkpad, and i'd also like to have a lighter laptop, so i think for me, the z series are out of the question. thanks for letting me know about the x3* series though! definitely going to look into those.

Resolution isn't a concern for me either... it's a deceptive generalization to say that 'all coders need higher resolution'... especially with administration. yes, it is a convenience, but i haven't had higher res displays help me debug, and my t420 is 1600x900 plugged into a 1900x1200 display. i kind of want to go back in time to explore low-level programming, as masochistic and silly as that sounds.

[rkawakami]

I think you are on the right track with an X6x system. With an 8-cell battery and without the Ultrabase you should meet all of your requirements. However...

Given that your main use for this "new" system is for programming/editing, my first thought was for an X200s with the WXGA+ screen. To a lesser extent, an X300/301 could fit the bill too. They both go against your desires for a 4:3 display and "thin" screen bezels. The main strike against the X30x is its use of the 1.8" form factor hard drive which, assuming the system doesn't come with one, tends to be harder to find and pricier than the regular 2.5" drives (given the same storage size).

Since I use Visual Studio to edit and compile C programs and my style of programming leads to multiple indentations with comments on each line, I prefer the widescreens over the nons for this type of application. The only 4:3 screen I use when programming is an A31p (1600x1200) with Bloodshed Dev-C++. And no, I'm not really recommending something as old as an A31p. Actually, I probably would stop at the X60/61 era as going back any further may not be cost effective.

[Cigarguy]

A few years ago I got the Thinkpad bug and got hit hard. Of all the Thinkpads that I have my favourite is a X61 Tablet with a X60 Tablet screen assembly. The swap is straight forward and simple. I've got 4 of these machines and love the 4:3 Flexview screen. With a 500 GB SSD and Middleton's BIOS it flies.

The economic for this machine works for me, $80 for X61T + $70 for a X60T. After the swap I've been able to sell the X60T with X61T screen assembly for $80ish so it's about $70-$100 for an awesome machine.

[RealBlackStuff]

Small mistake here:
Zaz referred to X3x, but rkawakami referred to X20x and X30x, totally different animals!
X2x (X20/X21/X22/X24), X3x (X30/X31/X32), X4x (X40/X41/X40T/X41T) as well as X6x (X60/X60s/X61/X61sX) all have 12.1" 4:3 screens with 1024x768 res (all CCFL).
There are also X60T/X61T (tablet) versions available with 12.1" 4:3 screens with 1400x1050 res (all CCFL).
X20x (X200/X200s/X201/X201s) have 12.1" 16:10 screens with 1280x800 or 1440x900 res (some CCFL, some LED).
X30x (X300/X301) have 13.3" 16:10 screens with 1440x900 res (all LED).
Anything newer than that has 16:9 screens.

As it happens, I have X31, X61s and T61 (14.1", 4:3, SXGA+ 1400x1050, Intel GPU) for sale (plus a few others).
PM me if interested.

[iamthatiam]

that's for the info. regarding the x20* series, they don't appeal to me... they share a lot in common with my t420 in terms of appearance, and i'd like to get something that looks different. Also, I should have mentioned that i only use the trackpoint on my t420 (touchpad disabled in bios), and i'd like my next thinkpad to be trackpoint only, with a touchpad-less palm rest/bezel.

you guys are giving great suggestions and info, thanks a lot!

The final decision is going to be between an x31 and an x61s.
Is there a major difference in build quality? I'm assuming that the x31 is more solid/heavy but I've not handled either machine.
Can the x61s use an sxga+ panel? or is that panel only officially offered on the x61t?
also, i've heard some complaints (can't remember exactly where) about the x61 screen hinges being weak.. is this a major issue or perhaps a few isolated incidents where users complained?

[Cigarguy]

AFAIK X61(s) don't come with SXGA+ screens only in the tablet machines. Some people have modified X60/X61 screen to SXGA+ but this mod is not for the faint hearted. X61T screens are prone to bubbling. IMO a X31T or even a X41T is so old that it's not very useful anymore even though it's nice to tinker with. However these can be had for cheap. A X60T or X61T is still very useable especially with 3+ GB of RAM and Win 7.

I've noticed no hinge issue with X61 T or non T machines however T61 hinges tend to get wobbly after some use.

[iamthatiam]

perusing ebay and amazon, the x31 and x61s float between $100 and $150, which is awesome

when you say that the x31t and x41t are "so old that it's not very useful anymore" are you talking about their performance running windows and browsing the web or are you talking about how the hardware will die?

i expect to tinker with my final choice, like add a jis layout keyboard, and if i decide on the x61s, i think it would be fun to hunt down an ibm-branded palm rest and install it. i'm kind of a keyboard geek and like the gray function row on the x31.

[PowerPC]

The x31t and the x41t use single core CPUs, this is enough to make them not very adequate for modern use.
If a rogue process freezes one of the cores (a very common problem) and you have more than one, the computer is still responsive and you can do something. With just one core, the computer simply hangs up.
Besides, if memory doesn't fail me, those machines can support 2GB of memory. Depending on what you will do, this is limited. An x60t supports 3GB, an x61t supports 8GB.
The x31t and x41t also require ATA disks. This might be a problem.

I would recommend for you an x61t with 8GB, and OpenBSD or Xubuntu as the operating system. Windows 7 should also be fine, but you must backup all drivers; Lenovo is removing support for several ThinkPad models from their site.

[iamthatiam]

i'm going to be using openbsd and probably without a desktop environment; so everything from the command line (emacs runs in the command line, so i'm good for development). you think that a low ram single core cpu system would be bad for that? i'm not challenging you, just curious since most free unix/linuxes spread on x86 single core architecture since the beginning... am i missing something?

[dr_st]

Well, everything started on single cores. It doesn't mean it should stay there.

All depends on what you do. If you only plan to do some text processing in a command-line environment, with no GUI and no number-crunching, then surely the single Core Pentium-Ms will suffice. In fact, much weaker CPUs would also suffice.

The X3x series are very nice machines. Not sure about long-term reliability, though. Quite often heard of motherboards dying, and had one such myself.

[RealBlackStuff]

Both the X31 and the X61s I mentioned earlier have original IBM stickers on both lid and palmrest!
And the X31 still has its original box!

[iamthatiam]

i pmed you realblackstuff

[pianowizard]

The X31 is heavy, very old and slow, and the display bezel is quite a bit larger than those of the X4* and X6*. The batteries are now very old as well, so even if you buy an unused one, it probably won't give the 4+ hours you want. I have owned all generations of the two-digit X Series Thinkpads, and the X3* is my least favorite. (The X2* is obviously even older, but looks very darn sexy!) The X61s is a far better machine in every single way, including the extended battery which can give you up to 9 hours of runtime.

[Ole]

My old x61 is still my favorite thinkpad, far outweighing the x220 tablet I'm using these days. It's just so much smaller, and while it lacks screen resolution, it's a great little screen, and the 4:3 format is superior to the x220. Using word on the x220 means I have to turn off all the ribbons and stuff to be able to even read or write a few paragraphs.