ThinkPad design is overrated?

[lead_org]

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3043093/the ... ted-design

This writer on fastcodesign thinks ThinkPad design is overrated, and that the Trackpoint is old. What do you guys think?

Make your voice heard!

[600X]

Outdated? More like too modern.

[brchan]

Outdated? More like too modern.

Agreed. Bring back lid latches, the T4x clamshell design, standard keyboard, better QC, Thinklight, no soldered ram on any models, and 4:3 (or 3:2) IPS displays.

Also, I have found the trackpoint ot be superior to the touchpad in all respects. More accurate, no need to take the hands off the keyboard, and has continous input. I still miss it, as I have switched mostly to toughbooks.

[fb1996]

What do you guys think?

I think it's wasted time to try to convince him of the contrary, because I assume he didn't use a ThinkPad much longer than ten minutes.

too modern

I think that even the timeless design of the ThinkPads needs a renewal from time to time.

Bring back [...] Thinklight

I do not agree with this, because in my opinion, the ThinkLight is a dim light with no real advantage compared to a backlit keyboard.

[brchan]

I do not agree with this, because in my opinion, the ThinkLight is a dim light with no real advantage compared to a backlit keyboard.

The Thinklights from the T4x to the T430, except for the T61, are very bright. They have the advantage of lighting up the surroundings so you can even see and write notes.

[lead_org]

I do not agree with this, because in my opinion, the ThinkLight is a dim light with no real advantage compared to a backlit keyboard.

The Thinklights from the T4x to the T430, except for the T61, are very bright. They have the advantage of lighting up the surroundings so you can even see and write notes.

Someone will soon grant your wish for a ThinkPad with 7 rows keyboard, 4:3 screen, latches, thinklight and blue enter key.

[Sleepy664]

Both the TrackPoint and the "no frills" design were the reasons I chose W520.

And the new keyboard was the reason I didn't get a W530

[brchan]

Someone will soon grant your wish for a ThinkPad with 7 rows keyboard, 4:3 screen, latches, thinklight and blue enter key.

Wasn't this supposed to be released more than two weeks ago? I won't believe it until I see it .

[fb1996]

Wasn't this supposed to be released more than two weeks ago?

There has been some delay...

[axur-delmeria]

Even David Hill, VP of Thinkpad Design and User Experience commented on the article: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3043093/the ... 406b2391ff

In short, he disagrees with the article's characterization of Thinkpad design, and that Thinkpad customers had overwhelmingly voted to keep the Trackpoint.

Personally I find the article lacking in substance.

Because decades of hardware innovations have come and gone, opening up all sorts of new ways to build and control a laptop.

The article mentions multi-touch touchpads, touchscreens, and an IR camera that "can see you gestures in air."
Unless these devices can be fully integrated into operating systems (esp. the IR camera), these will remain as secondary or even niche devices. Also, imagine a new form of RSI after many hours of moving your arms in front of the laptop. :p

I also don't understand the "build" part of that statement, because if he was referring to the materials and construction... well, we all know how Thinkpads are built. :p
Also, he never mentions other aspects of Thinkpad design, like the rubbery surface, magnesium rollcage, etc.

Referring to the Trackpoint + touchpad combo:

Yes, that means there are two complete mouse setups on the ThinkPads of today.

He calls it ludicrous. Flexible is a better word.

And as comfortable as rubbing that old red nub might be, it’s time for ThinkPad users to think bigger, to push Lenovo to make a true, spiritual successor that’s worthy of the name 25 years later.

IMO he fails to understand the "function over form" that encompasses many Thinkpad design choices.
Like he's itching for something shiny and flashy to catch his attention (Apple fanboy maybe??).

Bottom line: he's fixated on the Trackpoint and nothing else.
Perhaps the article's title should be changed to "I hate the Trackpoint and want Lenovo to follow my selfish desire" or something similar.

~~
IMO the Thinklight is a simple and effective solution: one LED illuminating the keyboard and a bit of the surrounding area. I don't know how many LEDs are inside a backlit Thinkpad keyboard.

~~
Very off-topic, but still relevant with regards to design philosophy:
The Macbook 2015 is very thin, but only has 3.5mm audio port and 1 Type C USB port.
Additional USB ports, HDMI, or VGA output need a dongle.
No dongles for DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, or LAN.
And the charging connector? It's also the USB port, so you can't charge and use a mouse at the same time without a dongle.

[brchan]

MacBooks and Thinkpads were complete opposites in design, though that gap has narrowed a bit recently. Ultimately, I will never cross over to Macs. The new Mac is basically the thinner and even more neutered version of the MacBook line. Not to mention the cooling will probably be insufficient for more demanding tasks.

Many people and companies have become too obsessed with the thinness of electronic devices and have sacrificed usability, practicality, and durability/reliability.

[bit_twiddler]

The author fails to appreciate that with a trackpoint and mouse buttons
integrated into the keyboard, one can do anything that would require
a mouse, without having to move one's hand away from the keyboard.

He obviously doesn't get the point - waving your hands in the
air to actuate an IR sensor is not in the ballpark as a productivity
tool.

[Norway Pad]

Design is a very subjective matter. It is to such an extent up to each individual's opinion, that discussing it probably won't get us close to any agreement. Let alone write a blog that ends with the sentence:

But silly ThinkPad fans just complained about that, too!

Generalizing like this pretty much removes any tiny bit of credibility this guy might have had in my eyes.

If we move to the objective side of things, there are probably certain designs, or rather concepts, that can actually be defined as "good". Concept, meaning the combination of the correct design, that is launched at just the right moment in time, used for the right item and targeted at the right audience. If one succedd wih all factors, it can make one design very successful. And this is probably what made the Thinkpad design so famous.

So what does MY voice say? I'm probably one of those silly Thinkpad users that are biased and would complain about too many changes from the original concept. But despite of this I have the opinion that development once made the Tinkpads developed from the square box that was the 700C, through the 600, to the T43 and T60. If one look at it, there is actually quite some change there. So in the spirit of the once cutting-edge business tool Thinkpad, we must allow for some development and change, so it can stay current and not just become an outdated icon that people like this guy makes fun of. To what extent we let it change is probably the Big question, and I have no answer. I can only say so much that I'm happy that the Trackpad buttons are back; that was a change that didn't work for me.

For the planned 4:3 RetroPad, I have heard some rumors too. What's up with this? Let's just get to the point there: where can I send my money to buy one?

[Qing Dao]

Someone will soon grant your wish for a ThinkPad with 7 rows keyboard, 4:3 screen, latches, thinklight and blue enter key.

Can you please stop this nonsense? It is getting really old.

[600X]

Someone will soon grant your wish for a ThinkPad with 7 rows keyboard, 4:3 screen, latches, thinklight and blue enter key.

Can you please stop this nonsense? It is getting really old.

Patience my friend.

[pianowizard]

The Thinklights from the T4x to the T430, except for the T61, are very bright. They have the advantage of lighting up the surroundings so you can even see and write notes.

I too prefer the ThinkLight, for its function as a flashlight. As a touch-typist, I rarely need to see the keyboard anyway. About once or twice a week I do need to find a seldom used key in a dark environment, but I can simply tilt the screen for a second and use the light from it to illuminate the keyboard.

Also, I have found the trackpoint ot be superior to the touchpad in all respects. More accurate, no need to take the hands off the keyboard, and has continous input. I still miss it, as I have switched mostly to toughbooks.

Have you maximized the speed of the pointer? That's essential for virtually all touchpads. At first you may find it too fast, but with practice you will like it.

He calls it ludicrous. Flexible is a better word.

I like the flexibility of having both a touchpad and a trackpoint. Whenever I use such an "amphibious" laptop (e.g. my current HP EliteBook 8740w), I switch between the touchpad and the trackpoint frequently, for 3 reasons:
1) they are better for different situations;
2) to reduce the risk of repetitive stress injury;
3) to avoid the boredom of using the same input device all the time.

That being said, for people who use only the touchpad, it's better if the laptop only has a touchpad because adding a trackpoint (which needs a separate set of buttons) pushes the touchpad farther from the keyboard.

I also don't understand the "build" part of that statement, because if he was referring to the materials and construction... well, we all know how Thinkpads are built. :p

But where is the evidence that the perceived build quality of Thinkpads actually improves reliability? I don't mean personal experience, but large-scale studies and surveys. Also, I mean current and recent Thinkpads, not IBM's which were indeed better than most other brands.

[brchan]

Have you maximized the speed of the pointer? That's essential for virtually all touchpads. At first you may find it too fast, but with practice you will like it.

Yes, and I still find that it takes multiple swipes to click a certain spot on the screen. Unfortunately, there is also no 2-finger scroll or equivalant function on the toughbook CF-19 .

[pianowizard]

Yes, and I still find that it takes multiple swipes to click a certain spot on the screen.

Is Panasonic's touchpad driver installed? Sometimes, Windows' generic mouse driver reduces the mouse pointer's speed. What's the screen resolution? On my CF-Y9's 1400x1050 screen, I rarely need to swipe more than twice.

Unfortunately, there is also no 2-finger scroll or equivalant function on the toughbook CF-19 .

Right-side scrolling on Toughbook's round touchpads is indeed not comfortable. But IMO, touchpads are not that great for scrolling anyway. The external mouse (i.e. its scroll wheel), keyboard (i.e. up/down arrows, and page up/down) and touchscreen are all better.

EDIT: Ooops, I just looked up some photos of the CF-19 and learned that it has a rectangular touchpad.

[Dekks]

Odd, can't see Dave Hill's comment although 1 has been removed from the comment stream.

The writer seems to be a Mac user so i wonder how much time he has used the Track point.

[axur-delmeria]

Odd, can't see Dave Hill's comment although 1 has been removed from the comment stream.

The writer seems to be a Mac user so i wonder how much time he has used the Track point.

Click on "Load more comments" then use the search function.

[kony]

It's one of those apologists that will praise to heavens anything their One True Brand does, and criticize everything any other company does. If Mac had a trackpoint, it would be the best thing on earth. If it doesn't, then it's terrible and makes the use of a computer ten times more difficult and time consuming.

If you didn't read the article, don't. Complete waste of time. You have thousands of such people on internet forums for any brand, and he certainly doesn't make any clever points or even hint at them. It's just pristine [censored].

[Norway Pad]

Don't know what made me think that, but I also got the feeling that he might be an Apple-enthusiast. However, in his next blog, he goes on with his 'Overrated Designs" theme, and he rates the iPhone design as overrated along with chairs, coffeemakers and.. Thinkpads. http://www.fastcodesign.com/3043300/the ... uct-design So there might be some fairness to what he writes. But I suspect he might not be a tech, but rather a designer of some sort. At which point evaluating technical details really isn't what he should be doing. Particularly not generalizing and referring to people as "silly" because they like Thinkpads.

[dr_st]

I think the only thing overrated here is how much attention you guys give to one silly article, which as was mentioned, didn't even make any real points.

[axur-delmeria]

[quote=""dr_st"]I think the only thing overrated here is how much attention you guys give to one silly article,[/quote]

As avid Thinkpadders we're entitled to viciously defend the honor of our beloved machines.

When something undesirable comes your way (like the article in question), the best solution is to "Rage once and let it out of your system."

To continue raging long after that is unhealthy.

[jonashendrickx]

CALL FOR ACTION: Make sure ThinkPad is not an overrated design! Help ThinkPad leave the contest in glory! You must vote the product other than ThinkPad to make ThinkPad win. The product in the middle 'Champion' box will be the most overrated design.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3043715/bra ... ted-design

[waterloo]

Wannabe macbook clone

[micrex22]

We can inadvertently squeeze a few things out of the article:
#1 you can tell right away the author is not a power user and doesn't understand high-technological devices such as the TrackPoint: in other words, he 'channels' the perception of the generic consumer. This allows us to see how individuals who are not computer-savvy may view a ThinkPad.
#2 the author cannot distinguish / recognize the difference between: Ted Selker, David Hill or Richard Sapper and what they have contributed... showing us that many individuals may misunderstand the original theory behind the device (which is to eradicate moving your hands off the keyboard: as moving your hand to a mouse takes a considerable amount of time-- the second purpose was an alternative input for someone who has limited hand movement in general)
#3 we can analyze the thought process of someone who acts as an evangelical medium to branding, as opposed to someone who is interested in technology and power devices that employed a lot of thought behind them in their design

Don't get me wrong, MacBooks are nice laptops and use nice components from reputable OEMs; but as everyone else has stated the article doesn't really offer anything constructive for the ThinkPad lambasting with the bizarre focus on the TrackPoint, so we're only able to analyze the personality of the author and nothing else.

[EvoT61]

Im ThinkPad user for two years and i dont think about anything else ... ant TrackPoint ... well , it is PART of ThinkPad Design aka RED BUTTON and dot on I which is to show TrackPoint , so if they remove TrackPoint they remove soul of ThinkPad ( this same as keyboard). Design ? Timeless! And there is no laptop on the market which is as classy and smart looking as ThinkPad.
My 2p.