The "Thinkpad"

[Akira_Hotate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkpIGar3UjI

The think-pad:
1. new design looks cheep
2. most of the screens are a crappy 1366x768 resolution
3. island keyboard is horrible
4. click-pad - enough said
5. Did I miss anything ? Please be free to add.

In my opinion thinkpad is dead. They can call it any run-of-the-mill COMPAL crap-book
I am currently using my x301 and I am afraid to what I should move when it becomes obsolete

I feel that the real laptop for work design is dead. Now they are overpriced fakebook and [censored] machines. For that a smartphone is enough.

[600X]

Yes, you did miss some things.

Most of the screens are 1920x1080 IPS or higher. Do you use the touchpad or the trackpoint? If you use the latter, I do not understand why you would complain about the touchpad.

The design has been hideous ever since they switched to widescreen IMO, so nothing new there. The island style keyboard is generally regarded as equally good as the old standard keyboard, but people complain about the useless layout.

[pianowizard]

2. most of the screens are a crappy 1366x768 resolution

This is true only if you are a cheapskate -- you get what you pay for.

4. click-pad - enough said

I agree this is currently the worst feature of Thinkpads.

[brchan]

The lid flex that you see at the beginning of the video is disappointing. I understand that it does not need to be as tough since LED screens are more durable than CCFL, but having that flex makes it easier for the keyboard to rub up against the keyboard. I don't ever remember my W530's or T23's keyboard/trackpoint pressing against the screen, even in a very packed bag.

[dr_st]

I don't ever remember my W530's or T23's keyboard/trackpoint pressing against the screen, even in a very packed bag.

Dunno about the above two, but trackpoint pressing against the screen does happen on plenty of other models - from an ancient X32 to a modern X220 (and also 14" models such as the T60).

[coolcat37]

Anyone else thought that movie was made for retards?

[dr_st]

Anyone else thought that movie was made for retards?

I hope no one else did.

[coolcat37]

Anyone else thought that movie was made for retards?

I hope no one else did.

Perhaps I was not frank enough. That film is pollution to my eyes

[brchan]

I don't ever remember my W530's or T23's keyboard/trackpoint pressing against the screen, even in a very packed bag.

Dunno about the above two, but trackpoint pressing against the screen does happen on plenty of other models - from an ancient X32 to a modern X220 (and also 14" models such as the T60).

Yes, the trackpoint rubbing on the screen does happen on older models, but mostly to the smaller portable models such as the X32 and X220 as you mentioned. I have seen this happen on my T60 and even 600X, but I have almost never seen this on any of the other models in my sig. However, I don't own that many Thinkpads compared to some on the forums .

How hard would it be to seat the keyboard deeper into the chassis by a couple mm to avoid marks? It should not cause any significant increase in the thickness of the laptop, and should still allow the screen to be thin.

[600X]

On current models, the trackpoint is lower than the key caps, so it doesn't press against the screen.

[bit_twiddler]

As long as we are commenting on videos, this one may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA-x2Ylfd7A

The reviewer notes that the webcam and microphone are no good,
there is no latch to secure the lid, and he gives us an honest opinion
on the clickpad.

At this rate, I'm going to hold on to my T420 until someone manages to pry it from
my cold dead hands...

[ajkula66]

Honestly, who cares?

About any YT video of this nature, that is.

As for the ThinkPads...Puppy has it best in his signature. 'Nuff said.

[ZaZ]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've used the X1 Carbon, T430 and X230, and I liked the new keyboard, though I was shortcut user and am not a fast typist. If I were in the market today, the T450s, L450 and X250 would be at or near the top of my list. I almost bought a T450s last month when they were selling for $640(heck of a deal compared to what we used to pay) for a new one, but don't use my notebook enough to justify the cost and I got such a great deal on my Dell. People can complain all they want, but show me something better for the same money?

[JonathanGennick]

2. most of the screens are a crappy 1366x768 resolution
3. island keyboard is horrible

I greatly dislike that so many brands ship such low screen resolutions. In the consumer space, the brands are taking advantage of people's ignorance about the interplay between pixel count and display size. 768 pixels high is not productive. Word's ribbon and toolbars and title bar and status bar use up a big chunk of those 768 pixels, Excel is not fun either, and some websites that I use in my work are all but unusable at that resolution.

Thinkpad's keyboard, that I actually like. I like it a lot. I had poor experience with the immediately preceding design used in the T410/420/430. The Chiclet one on the other hand has felt really good every time I've tried it.

I even liked the idea of putting Home/End where the caps-lock key is. I'm in the minority here, but that was a good idea. My right hand is overburdened, and moving those keys would help balance the workload more toward my left. Plus I liked the right-left arrangement.

...and I am afraid to what I should move when it becomes obsolete

I've upgraded to a Dell XPS-13. I figured that so long as I was going to have a difficult-to-open laptop having soldered ram and a battery not easy to replace, that I might as well get one having some style and flair.

[ajkula66]

Thinkpad's keyboard, that I actually like. I like it a lot. I had poor experience with the immediately preceding design used in the T410/420/430. The Chiclet one on the other hand has felt really good every time I've tried it.

Huh? *30 series does sport an island keyboard, along with a 6-row layout.

[ajkula66]

I almost bought a T450s last month when they were selling for $640(heck of a deal compared to what we used to pay) for a new one, but don't use my notebook enough to justify the cost and I got such a great deal on my Dell. People can complain all they want, but show me something better for the same money?

That's one perspective of looking at the things, and a very reasonable one at that.

Now, the problem for me personally is that no matter what I'd be willing to pay no one is offering a machine that I'd be interested in, even remotely.

So I guess that I'll just have to wait for someone to hack a W701 or 8740W board for at least SB architecture and then create another Frankie from there...

[JonathanGennick]

keyboard, that I actually like. I ? *30 series does sport an island keyboard, along with a 6-row layout.

Did it? I just lost track then. The non-chiclet keyboard on my T410 has always been troublesome. I need to slam the keys down or else I miss keystrokes. I've swapped through three keyboards too, and that behavior has been consistent.

For whatever reason, the chiclet one seems to work fine, at least when I test it on models in the Microsoft Store.

[JaneL]

I like my Gen 3 X1C, and it's working just fine for me. Thin, light, bright and clear touchscreen, doesn't run hot, long battery life. What's not to like?

Well, I still wish it had a 7-row keyboard with the classic layout, but other than that, the keyboard feels good. I've even gotten used to having PgUp/PgDn mixed in with the arrow keys.

[dr_st]

Well, I still wish it had a 7-row keyboard with the classic layout, but other than that, the keyboard feels good. I've even gotten used to having PgUp/PgDn mixed in with the arrow keys.

And that's, ladies and gentlemen, is when you know that the war for the classic keyboard has been lost.

(IIRC, Jane used to be one of the biggest opponents to the layout changes.)

[emeraldgirl08]

I had an opportunity to type on a lenovo chiclet keyboard a couple of weeks ago. IIRC it was an E-series and my initial impression is that the keyboard actually felt very nice. Not dreadful at all. The keys cupped my fingers and felt responsive. The university I attend loans out Macbooks, Thinkpads, Samsung tablets, wireless keyboards, and iPads at each of their libraries for 3-day stints. I think I might try out a Macbook and one of the chicklet Thinkpads before this semester is out for a slightly longer testing period!

[ajkula66]

Well, I still wish it had a 7-row keyboard with the classic layout, but other than that, the keyboard feels good. I've even gotten used to having PgUp/PgDn mixed in with the arrow keys.

And that's, ladies and gentlemen, is when you know that the war for the classic keyboard has been lost.

(IIRC, Jane used to be one of the biggest opponents to the layout changes.)

Indeed...the war has been lost BUT the Real Prince FrankenPad may still rise in the Far East out of the caves of 51nb and save us from being destroyed by the 6-row plague...

[theterminator93]

I had an opportunity to type on a lenovo chiclet keyboard a couple of weeks ago. IIRC it was an E-series and my initial impression is that the keyboard actually felt very nice. Not dreadful at all. The keys cupped my fingers and felt responsive.

My first experience with it was as I was setting up 49 new T440p units for one of my clients. It wasn't as bad as I was anticipating, but it still was "weird" in its layout; I had to go searching for a few keys and the proportions felt ... "off". I hadn't quite adjusted to using it by the time I was done getting through the first half of the batch. On the other hand, I can jump between my T420, T61p/T60, T42p, A22m... all with no "adjustment period" needed.

The clickpad, on the other hand... that thing is really a piece of work. No way will I ever recommend a *40 series to anyone...

[Temetka]

I've upgraded to a Dell XPS-13. I figured that so long as I was going to have a difficult-to-open laptop having soldered ram and a battery not easy to replace, that I might as well get one having some style and flair.

I'm running on a T410 and an E6520 myself. I did check out the XPS 13 and it looks fantastic! Dell did a really nice job on that. Shame about the lack of a dual core i7 though.

[JonathanGennick]

I did check out the XPS 13 and it looks fantastic! Dell did a really nice job on that. Shame about the lack of a dual core i7 though.

There's an i7 model. It's got dual cores.

[JaneL]

And that's, ladies and gentlemen, is when you know that the war for the classic keyboard has been lost.

Well, I don't know about that. I still think that whoever put Delete in the upper right corner should be strung up, but the PgUp/PgDn move feels strangely natural. Natural enough that I get confused on my old style travel TrackPoint keyboard that I use with my work HP when they're not there (and don't think that I don't hate actually admitting that! ).

[ZaZ]

Now, the problem for me personally is that no matter what I'd be willing to pay no one is offering a machine that I'd be interested in, even remotely.

Now, if they only made a T450s with a SXGA+ LCD, I'd sell my Dell forthwith.

[Puppy]

That video has inappropriate background music. I suggest: Moby - Everything is Wrong

[ajkula66]

Now, if they only made a T450s with a SXGA+ LCD, and a 7-row keyboard, I'd buy at least one right away...probably three.

Fixed it for you....

[bit_twiddler]

The real problem with Lenovo is that Thinkpads can now be defined by which
features have been deleted compared to previous generations of product.
Here's a partial list:

T/W 500:
Flexview, 4:3

T420: (and perhaps earlier);
16:10
Ultrabay can no longer be removed while machine is on the dock.
You have to remove the machine and turn it over to remove the ultrabay.
Some T420 machines shipped with very poor display.

T430:
Keyboard, need I say more?

T440p, T440s:
Trackpoint buttons.
T440s now has only one ram slot open for expansion.
No slice battery for T440p
No display latch, Lenovo personnel now refer to these as "sweater catchers."
Keyboard is missing "numlock" and numeric mode for U-I-O-P-J-K-L-;-M keys
so anyone who needs to do numeric entry has to carry around a separate numeric keypad.
Expresscard slot.

W540, W541:
Very flimsy build quality compared to previous W5x0 machines.
No display latch.

They have added some interesting new features (such as PowerBridge
and IPS screens) but, overall, their product team is doing a random walk.
And, some of their decisions are just stupid - why do they only allow
42mm M2 SSDs, when longer ones would fit in many of their models?

[dr_st]

Well, I do agree with some of your points, but I feel that some of the others are only partially true.

Flexview

Ignoring the tablet models that never lost it, IPS has been reintroduced in later models: first X220/X230, and by now most of the lineup in one way or another (as you mentioned yourself).

4:3

Not unique to Lenovo

16:10

Not unique to Lenovo

Some T420 machines shipped with very poor display.

Many machines before T420 shipped with equally poor displays.

Trackpoint buttons.

Added back in later models.

W540, W541:
Very flimsy build quality compared to previous W5x0 machines.
No display latch.

Build quality complaints are utterly subjective. I don't think there is a single Thinkpad model about which someone did not say that it's flimsy compared to some previous model, real or imaginary.

Display latch-less mechanism has been tried earlier, on the X220. There are zero problems with this mechanism on the X220/X230, although, to be fair, I don't know how it fares on the W-series.