Anybody still sticking with XP?

[sir_synthsalot]

Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 have come and gone. Soon 8.1 will be replaced with 10.

Despite this is anybody is still sticking with Windows XP for their main PC?

I still remember reading comments relatively recently about how XP is the greatest version of Windows, people have no plans to upgrade whatsoever, Microsoft didn't give them any good reason to upgrade, etc. Some of the comments seemed a little bit angry as well.

[brchan]

I think most people here are using Windows 7 and will probably stick with it for a while. XP was a fine OS, but it wasn't the most stable or secure, and became bogged down after so many updates.

[Akira_Hotate]

the place where I work 70 % computers still run XP, since it is to expensive and difficult to migrate, not to mention upgrade like 50 % of all hardware. So we are sticking with xp.
about 10 % of computers there are IBM Thinkpads T61 15' inch that run without a problem with occasional bad HDD or bad RAM.
I manage a network of 700 computers. 70 thinkpads and not a single one went to warranty. Those are still IBM's - not crappy lenovo ripoffs
Also there is like 200 HP nc6320. Those run XP too.
The rest are hp desktops running xp and new no-name run of the mill desktops with windows 8.1

[brchan]

Those are still IBM's - not crappy lenovo ripoffs

Lenovo bought IBM's PC business in 2005, so the Last "IBM" thinkpad was the T43. Every model made after was a Lenovo product, including the T61. IBM allowed Lenovo to use their "IBM Thinkpad" stickers for a few years, and explains why some T60 and T61 models have the old sticker.

[rkawakami]

I'm still running XP on my everyday systems which are a trio of A31p systems at home and work. Needless to say that all my other legacy systems in my .sig are XP or earlier (W2K or 98). The modern systems (X60 or newer) run a mix of XP or 7. I don't feel too exposed by using an obsolete OS as I think I'm careful where I go and what I access on the web. I do run AVG on my systems and it seems to be doing okay.

My main home A31p has recently given me problems with the hard drive refusing to boot. XP appeared to be acting up just prior to the last re-boot (slowness in closing or opening programs). However this could have been a drive problem as there were some bad blocks found on the drive. I usually let it run 24/7 and re-boot only when things get noticeably slow. The work A31p gets hibernated each night and hasn't been re-booted in probably two months. I've been running Chrome there recently and that's really the main difference between the two.

[MrMaguire]

I'm pretty sure I mentioned in some post on this forum that I still use Windows XP with no anti-virus. Windows XP x86 still gets support in the form of updates because of how poorly-designed Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 is. Windows XP Professional x64 Edition still is unintentionally supported because it's so similar to Server 2003 and its updates work on XP x64.

Windows XP will only be obsolete once there's no sly--unintentional support for it, and no regularly updated programmes install on it, and all of the hardware it runs on is set aside in the "Glorified Typewriter" pile, and nobody is using it to programme ROMs, laser cutters and whatever else, and nobody is using it to run web and file servers, and when embedded systems in Taxis and in Banks and Restaurants use another operating system, and when people in poorer countries decide they need something newer, and when the government subsidiaries finally decide to give it up, and also when Microsoft releases an operating system that isn't fundamentally confused or overly simple about what it does.

When all that happens, I'll probably stop using it too.

[gnawzie]

I run xp on my t43 because its lighter, I don't know what windows 7 actually does to hog more resources, maybe they have more instructions that equate to NOP's throughout the kernel, or small loops that waste cycles. Or take images of my hard disk and send them to microsoft.

[FryPpy]

I am. My daly drivers - this X61 and T601 with 8Gb and it have PAE patch but it is a second (not main) boot option. All my hardware fully compatible with XP. And all things in XP is makes me happy so why i must move? I can install Vistas (all this thinkpads originally have Vista COAs) and i can install W7 (because of middleton's BIOS;) but i don't. My be when i'll be pushed with modern software that don't want to see XP i'll move to W7.
T410 and X301, which is living on shelves and waiting for final upgrades, are still with W7 because they have shipped with it.

PS
I don't like modern 6 row chiclets on new thinkpads and W8+, how they look and feel and why i must to eat this .....t

[theterminator93]

Eh, I keep it on the machines I feel it's best suited for. All my Core 2 and newer (Both T61p units, T60, T420) run 7 since I use them all fairly heavily and/or for work. At the moment I have 7 on my T42p; I've not yet decided whether it stays on 7 or if I go back to XP. My primary A22m and the X24 both run XP; the other A22m runs 98SE. The TransNote and the 600X both run 2000. The 365XD runs 98SE... and the 701c runs 95.

Each machine I bought to fill a certain era in the ThinkPad history, while being able to maintain a broad compatibility with older programs/games I played as a kid.

[exTPfan]

I still run XP on my T42s because there is an incompatibility between the T42s, Win 7, and a program I depend on. That said, I much prefer XP to Win 7, and it is 100% stable. The last time a Thinkpad running XP crashed on me was in 2008.

[ajkula66]

The only machine which still runs XP in our household is the A31p in my signature. Having said that, it never goes online using the aforementioned OS. If I feel like browsing the web on it, I boot CentOS which is installed on the same hard drive...

Everything else is on W7 and will likely remain that way until the end of support in 2020...

[ZaZ]

Lenovo bought IBM's PC business in 2005, so the Last "IBM" thinkpad was the T43. Every model made after was a Lenovo product, including the T61. IBM allowed Lenovo to use their "IBM Thinkpad" stickers for a few years, and explains why some T60 and T61 models have the old sticker.

I think you could make a pretty good argument that the T60, Z61, R60 and X60 were really the last of the of the IBM ThinkPads. The T43 and others were in wide release when Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand, the T60 et all were well into development. Lenovo didn't make any significant changes to the design probably because it was too far along to do so.

[ajkula66]

I think you could make a pretty good argument that the T60, Z61, R60 and X60 were really the last of the of the IBM ThinkPads. The T43 and others were in wide release when Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand, the T60 et all were well into development. Lenovo didn't make any significant changes to the design probably because it was too far along to do so.

All of these are very similar to what the ThinkPad design was known for - even the somewhat outlandish Z series - and there can be little doubt that the same team designed both the T4x and T6x range. In my opinion, that is.

But the Windows key and the new AC adapter are Lenovo's trademark, through and through.

[sir_synthsalot]

Anybody downgrade any of the newer Thinkpads to XP?

Which thinkpad no longer has Lenovo's drivers for XP?

[jdrou]

Anybody downgrade any of the newer Thinkpads to XP?

Which thinkpad no longer has Lenovo's drivers for XP?

Note that at a certain point this becomes impractical because Intel stopped releasing new storage drivers for XP. You would probably need to keep the disk controller permanently in legacy IDE mode. My T440p for example has no XP storage driver. This also means I can't use my old Windows PE 1.x CDs/flash drives on this system for anything that needs to see the disk.

[MisterB]

I'm posting this from Xp. My T42s and X41Ts are exclusively Xp. No issues at all online. No security worries. The only issue with Xp I have is that it can't use gpt partitioned disks and is limited to 2tb disks. Anything bigger, it can't access either as an internal drive or in a USB box.

I use Windows 7 as the main OS for my T60s and X61Ts. I've set them up to multiboot Xp but I don't use it much with these machines. A couple of them have Vista as well.

I'm really fond of Xp. No reason to leave it as long as I have hardware that works with it.

[Puppy]

No security worries.

https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-res ... _useo.html

[exTPfan]

No security worries.

https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-res ... _useo.html

" Barring authorized access to the victim’s machine, the attacker would have to find some other means, such as crafting a new Flash exploit, to deliver a CVE-2015-1701 payload."

I don't even run Flash on my XP machines --- disgusting program.

[MisterB]

As I said, no security worries. My Xp systems are well imaged, all clones of one another. If something should happen, the system is restored in a few minutes. They are also fairly locked down, not default installations at all.

I recently mad a bit of of a study of privilege escalation--one of the parts of the exploit process using this very machine and one of my T60s. That made me lock down a couple more things that I wasn't aware of in both Xp and Windows 7. I've been using Xp for years this way. I started to set up secure locked down systems in the waning days of Windows NT4.0 and carried it over into Xp. This isn't invulnerable by any means but it is fairly secure compared to an average Windows out of the box installation. Any exploit I happen to encounter will have a lot more privilege to escalate before it gets anywhere and in the unlikely event that it did, I would have the whole event erased and the system restored to its former state in 10 minutes or so.

[Unknown_K]

I use XP on laptops that do not have a dual core (and Win2k or 98 on the real old ones). T60/T61 can use Win7.

[FryPpy]

No security worries.

https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-res ... _useo.html

Interesting. I can't find CVS entry for this vulnerability, and i don't understand if XP only vulnerable.
Any way if i don't have anything to loose there is nothing to secure.

And one funny thing about old OS and security. Once upon a time when i have Win 2000 i have found funny virus. W2000 haven't bundled with .Net framework by default and i haven't installed it on this PC. One i have stumbled upon bad internet site, and it have "downloaded" something to this PC ad tryed to start it. And windows displayed messagebox that some process can't be started because there is no mscoree.dll in my system;)

[sir_synthsalot]

" Barring authorized access to the victim’s machine, the attacker would have to find some other means, such as crafting a new Flash exploit, to deliver a CVE-2015-1701 payload."

I don't even run Flash on my XP machines --- disgusting program.

A lot of web sites are phasing out Flash.

[micrex22]

Those are still IBM's - not crappy lenovo ripoffs

Lenovo bought IBM's PC business in 2005, so the Last "IBM" thinkpad was the T43. Every model made after was a Lenovo product, including the T61. IBM allowed Lenovo to use their "IBM Thinkpad" stickers for a few years, and explains why some T60 and T61 models have the old sticker.

Incorrect, the T60 was already well developed by the IBM team after it was sold off to lenovo-- which is why the early T60s lack any external lenovo badging and state "manufactured for IBM". IBM also mandated specific design caveats up until the T61 (which is why there was a special option for IBM badging in the FRUs). After that though, then Lenovo started operating by their own standards-- which is why we now have thinkpads with chiclet keyboards, no discreet trackpoint buttons, no ultrabay, no IPS, no blue enter keys-- and on and on and on.

[ajkula66]

Incorrect, the T60 was already well developed by the IBM team after it was sold off to lenovo-- which is why the early T60s lack any external lenovo badging and state "manufactured for IBM". IBM also mandated specific design caveats up until the T61 (which is why there was a special option for IBM badging in the FRUs). After that though, then Lenovo started operating by their own standards-- which is why we now have thinkpads with chiclet keyboards, no discreet trackpoint buttons, no ultrabay, no IPS, no blue enter keys-- and on and on and on.

Well - according to Lenovo - the last IBM ThinkPad was T41. Surprised?

The design team was sold off along with the rest of the brand. As was the use of IBM logo for a period of five years.

As for the badges, I've owned quite a few T4x series systems which stated Lenovo on the clearplate, and had a "ThinkPad" logo on both the palmrest and lid.

Does it really matter, though?

[micrex22]

Well - according to Lenovo - the last IBM ThinkPad was T41. Surprised?

Not really, as Lenovo also states they're the creators of the ThinkPad (I would like to see the reference if you have it on hand for curiosity).

The design team was sold off along with the rest of the brand. As was the use of IBM logo for a period of five years.
As for the badges, I've owned quite a few T4x series systems which stated Lenovo on the clearplate, and had a "ThinkPad" logo on both the palmrest and lid.

This is where it gets interesting: you'll notice that there are "manufactured for Lenovo" *or* "manufactured for IBM" ThinkPads during the same periods. This is because IBM was transitioning out the division, but at the same time was still selling some of its own products to select clients (which is why we have the "manufactured for IBM" T60s, and which also means they were dictating design standards).

Part of this deal was that Lenovo also had to host the 'ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs' files for at least 9 years; this is so that IBM customers with existing older IBM hardware could obtain the files. I've actually asked Lenovo specifically about the pccbbs and that's what they told me btw.

Does it really matter, though?

Well it sort of matters in the sense that IBM's *design standards* (regardless of design team) are internal to the corporation and carry over regardless of division. Take away the IBM design standards and you start to get a ThinkPad that we see today; mimicking undesirable characteristics exclusively to appeal to a home consumer audience that would otherwise be avoided if they were under the IBM design standards. But the 'IBM way' doesn't appeal to a mass market and Lenovo had to untie those strings to *make money*.
My theory: by severing the IBM branding this freed them from any design obligations, which is why they threw the axe down right after the T61.

All ThinkPads that carried "Manufactured for IBM" were built to specific design standards that were no longer extant on machines that *exclusively* stated "Manufactured for Lenovo". Because... the two companies have different views and standards.

[ajkula66]

(I would like to see the reference if you have it on hand for curiosity)

There's a link in a post by pianowizard, will find it for you when I get a chance.

This is where it gets interesting: you'll notice that there are "manufactured for Lenovo" *or* "manufactured for IBM" ThinkPads during the same periods. This is because IBM was transitioning out the division, but at the same time was still selling some of its own products to select clients (which is why we have the "manufactured for IBM" T60s, and which also means they were dictating design standards).

I agree that these "transition" systems are the most interesting ones in that respect. Take a peak here:



All the machines that these clear plates came from were late-model-systems that stated that they were "assembled in the U.S. from U.S. and non-U.S. components for Lenovo" and were originally sold to the government, with typical configuration for the purpose as in no internal wireless card and no Bluetooth.

The T43p that I'm typing on (China built and not one of the systems I referred to in the previous paragraph) states "Copyright Lenovo 2005". I could go a lot further but am certain that you get my point.

Well it sort of matters in the sense that IBM's *design standards* (regardless of design team) are internal to the corporation and carry over regardless of division. Take away the IBM design standards and you start to get a ThinkPad that we see today; mimicking undesirable characteristics exclusively to appeal to a home consumer audience that would otherwise be avoided if they were under the IBM design standards. But the 'IBM way' doesn't appeal to a mass market and Lenovo had to untie those strings to *make money*.
My theory: by severing the IBM branding this freed them from any design obligations, which is why they threw the axe down right after the T61.

Hmmm...while I'm short on pictures for those systems, I recall owning T400 machines with IBM logos.

All ThinkPads that carried "Manufactured for IBM" were built to specific design standards that were no longer extant on machines that *exclusively* stated "Manufactured for Lenovo". Because... the two companies have different views and standards.

I'm not certain that I agree with the first part of your statement, but I definitely agree with the second.

[MrMaguire]

Does it really matter, though?

Well it sort of matters in the sense that IBM's *design standards* (regardless of design team) are internal to the corporation and carry over regardless of division. Take away the IBM design standards and you start to get a ThinkPad that we see today; mimicking undesirable characteristics exclusively to appeal to a home consumer audience that would otherwise be avoided if they were under the IBM design standards. But the 'IBM way' doesn't appeal to a mass market and Lenovo had to untie those strings to *make money*.
My theory: by severing the IBM branding this freed them from any design obligations, which is why they threw the axe down right after the T61.

All ThinkPads that carried "Manufactured for IBM" were built to specific design standards that were no longer extant on machines that *exclusively* stated "Manufactured for Lenovo". Because... the two companies have different views and standards.

I speculate that IBM sold off their PC division because of one reason: Money. They weren't making any of it by producing top-quality computers that didn't sell in high numbers. By the time IBM sold up, the prices of computers had come way down, and IBM were losing money to stay competitive. So they sold the sector off to a Chinese OEM that could manufacture the product at a lower cost and sell in higher numbers, whilst retaining its identity, at least for a little while.

The newer ThinkPads are not the same because of the same reason: Money. It costs money to go against the grain, and that's what Lenovo would be doing if they were still making 4:3 laptops with standard keyboards and hi-res screens. The ThinkPads have always been a little different, but just a little. Look at an IBM ThinkPad T42, then look at a Dell Latitude D600, then at a HP Compaq NC series with the same size screen and chipset. They're not that different. You can blame the demise of the ThinkPad on modern laptops and their common trends, who knows where exactly these trends come from. Should we just blame Apple and get on with our lives? Possibly...

IBM and Lenovo may indeed have separate views and standards on how computers should be made, like the offset screen on the T61/T400 and similar. Whose brain child was that?

Hmmm...while I'm short on pictures for those systems, I recall owning T400 machines with IBM logos.

Really? The branding on the T400 and newer is different to the older ThinkPads. They don't have the "T Series" or whatever designation under the ThinkPad logo, so they cannot accommodate the traditional IBM ThinkPad tricolour logo, unless Lenovo or IBM happened to redesign it. But by 2008 rolled around, I doubt IBM was still helping Lenovo transition the franchise.

To me it seems very unusual for one company to specifically allow another company to use their branding on a sold sector of said company. Usually, re-branding will happen almost instantly, and there will always be a distinct cut-off point, like when HP acquired Compaq. IBM obviously cared about the ThinkPad.

__________________

Sorry for making this thread even more off-topic. I just wanted to chime in with my obnoxious opinions.