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Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

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Puppy
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Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#1 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:49 am

Lenovo announces the all-new ThinkPad T470 with Kaby Lake and Thunderbolt 3
https://www.thinkscopes.com/2016/12/28/ ... derbolt-3/

Instead of offering the T470 with a half-decent screen with at least 300 nits and at least 90% sRGB coverage, they’re still using the same mediocre Full HD IPS screens with 250 nits and less than 70% sRGB coverage. In my opinion, that’s a huge disappointment!

Lenovo Crappy Screen (tm) again. I also expect PWM frequency 200 Hz in whole brightness settings range. Or even 50 Hz like many IdeaPads gets ? Oh yes, optimized for comfortable long time usage :(

The Sierra Wireless EM7455 LTE-A module was already available in the T460. However, the T470 isn’t available with the HUAWEI ME906S LTE module anymore. Instead, you can get it with a Fibocom L831-EAU LTE module. In contrast to the Sierra LTE-A module, the Fibocom LTE module supports 2G networks as a fallback.

Never heard about the Fibocom brand. Wondering whether their firmware is better than the one made by a third party vendor in Sierra Wireless EM 7345 module.

EDIT more 2017 models here http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 92#p792692
Last edited by Puppy on Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#2 Post by dr_st » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:46 am

Puppy wrote:Instead of offering the T470 with a half-decent screen with at least 300 nits and at least 90% sRGB coverage, they’re still using the same mediocre Full HD IPS screens with 250 nits and less than 70% sRGB coverage. In my opinion, that’s a huge disappointment!
It's funny how some people are never pleased. 4-5 years ago there wasn't a single IPS screen in the entire T series line-up. And there wasn't anything over HD+ in 14".

Now, they have this, and the guy is still hugely disappointed. I bet that if they had the 300 nits 90% sRGB, he would be complaining that it's not 400 nits 100% sRGB or something.

IPS is IPS. Or more precisely, non-TN is non-TN. Even the mediocre HD IPS in the X220 is still leaps an bounds above the best TN garbage they have in laptops (desktop TN screens are not nearly quite as bad). And this FHD IPS, which is without a doubt better, is not even considered decent? :??:
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#3 Post by fb1996 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:15 am

dr_st wrote:4-5 years ago there wasn't a single IPS screen in the entire T series line-up. And there wasn't anything over HD+ in 14".
Sure, but it's not 2012 anymore. Compared to the recent offerings of other manufacturers, that's just disappointing. Even some cheap consumer laptops have better screens than the T470!
dr_st wrote:I bet that if they had the 300 nits 90% sRGB, he would be complaining that it's not 400 nits 100% sRGB or something.
I am the author of this article and I currently have a 14 inch ThinkPad with a 300 nits screen which covers 99.7% of the sRGB color space. Guess what, I'm happy with that screen!
dr_st wrote:IPS is IPS. Or more precisely, non-TN is non-TN. Even the mediocre HD IPS in the X220 is still leaps an bounds above the best TN garbage they have in laptops (desktop TN screens are not nearly quite as bad). And this FHD IPS, which is without a doubt better, is not even considered decent? :??:
While it has a higher resolution than the mediocre 1366x768 IPS panel in the X220, the sRGB coverage is even worse (if they're using the same screens as in the T460) and the brightness is even lower. I wouldn't say that it's much better and in my opinion, that's just unacceptable for a premium laptop released in 2016.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#4 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:53 am

dr_st wrote:Now, they have this, and the guy is still hugely disappointed.
The display quality in 2016 does not match the price tag, that's all. Why most of gaming laptops have better screens than Lenovo P series but costs half of the P model ?

Unfortunately manufactures found several ways how to cheapen the IPS technology, especially "thanks" to terrible LED backlight, so it no longer represents a decent overall quality by default. Low PWM frequency, noticeable brightness drop around 45 degree viewing angle, terrible backlight uniformity and bleeding are typical issues of low cost IPS panels Lenovo use in premium price ThinkPads.

Now cheap Acer V15 has better screen than the most expensive T4x0 model. That's silly.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#5 Post by dr_st » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:08 am

fb1996 wrote:I am the author of this article and I currently have a 14 inch ThinkPad with a 300 nits screen which covers 99.7% of the sRGB color space. Guess what, I'm happy with that screen!
Which screen is that? :)
fb1996 wrote:While it has a higher resolution than the mediocre 1366x768 IPS panel in the X220, the sRGB coverage is even worse (if they're using the same screens as in the T460) and the brightness is even lower.
I seem to recall that the X220 IPS had <70% sRGB, but I might be wrong. Brightness is secondary in my opinion and the difference is not big. 250nit is more than enough for typical indoors work, and 300nit is still not enough for outdoors. X220 IPS screens had problems that go beyond these basic specs. There was too much brightness loss at wide vertical angles, and there were image burn-in issues, and abnormally high wear due to normal use manifesting in white pressure marks. And PWM issues too, yes. And still, I would have it over any TN screen in any Thinkpad any day. :D

BTW, thank you for the article. I don't want to give the impression that because I disagree with you on the specific point, that your great informative analysis is not appreciated. :thumbs-UP:
Puppy wrote:Why most of gaming laptops have better screens than Lenovo P series but costs half of the P model ?
Well, that's kinda always been the case. Screens on most Thinkpads have been worse than screens on many half-price consumer laptops even back in the days of the T4x (with the exception of the IPS models).
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#6 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:45 am

dr_st wrote:Well, that's kinda always been the case. Screens on most Thinkpads have been worse than screens on many half-price consumer laptops even back in the days of the T4x (with the exception of the IPS models).
There is no excuse now when the P is for $4000+ and good screens are available in general. It is just Lenovo dirty play with customers to put such low cost crap into a workstation machine.

With OLED screens there will be new kind of issues as well :wink: Lenovo has already done it in X1 Yoga (Link1, Link2) as expected :(

If you want to get the worst quality display made by particular technology, choose Lenovo :roll: It is not a concidience but result of the low-cost components preference over anything else even in case of premium models.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#7 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:19 am

Looks nice.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#8 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:30 am

Lenovo ThinkPad 2017: New Features for all models
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Cla ... 047.0.html

Lenovo ThinkPad: Two subnotebooks and a convertible with Kaby Lake (X270, ThinkPad 13, Yoga 370)
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Thi ... 004.0.html

New ThinkPad accessoires with USB Type C
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-New ... 937.0.html

(yawn)

The biggest Lenovo innovation is the silver T470 :eek:
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#9 Post by Pokrzept » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:11 pm

@Puppy you are so wrong about biggest innovation of 2017 series - you forgot about DIAGNOSTIC-CODE smartphone app !!! if someone is handicapped and can't open bloody manual to search for beep-code description this might be life saver. Coz he surely will understand technical description of the problem displayed on his smartphones screen ... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

@dr_st please go buy any T460 with FHD IPS, I dare you. If you're lucky you may end up with the best possible option, low-freq. PWM, poor color reproduction and low brightness. On the other hand you may also get in addition light bleed and grid pattern dedicated for those who like to use laptops screen as an chess board in a free time. And when it comes to the x220/x230 IPS screen - i do have both of these little machines, both of them have -SLB3 in it, and its superior compared to the T460 screen in any aspect.

@ALL Say BYE-BYE to the Classic ThinkPad project...
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470

#10 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:18 pm

Pokrzept wrote:@Puppy you are so wrong about biggest innovation of 2017 series - you forgot about DIAGNOSTIC-CODE smartphone app !!!
LOL, indeed. Wondering whether Windows 10 Mobile one will be available as well. The app will have a link to Lenovo System Update that downloads outdated drivers as usually :lol:
Pokrzept wrote:@ALL Say BYE-BYE to the Classic ThinkPad project...
Why ? I don't think it is related to the 2017 models. New X1 Carbon and (P)roblems models have not been announced yet as well.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#11 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Nah, I think he means the Retro-Project! :mrgreen:
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#12 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:29 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Nah, I think he means the Retro-Project! :mrgreen:
I know but it is expected by the end of 2017 anyway, if ever.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#13 Post by Pokrzept » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:36 pm

Puppy wrote:
RealBlackStuff wrote:Nah, I think he means the Retro-Project! :mrgreen:
I know but it is expected by the end of 2017 anyway, if ever.
Perhaps you may find the path to the truth in the lyrics, my young Padawan:
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I dream my life away
I'm just a dreamer
Who dreams of better days
Post-scriptum: I'd love to see L470 with an full-voltage CPU, but well it wont happen.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#14 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:50 pm

BTW Why Lenovo announces new 2017 models so early, after all ? Sales decline ?

There is also no answer to the successfull thin bezel Dell XPS 13 design (Yoga 910 is not a regular laptop). It looks like there is no new design development in ThinkPad line, just a regular Intel component refresh.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#15 Post by fb1996 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:55 pm

dr_st wrote:Which screen is that? :)
AU Optronics B140HAN01.2 ;)
dr_st wrote:I seem to recall that the X220 IPS had <70% sRGB
If I remember correctly, it covered approx. 66% of sRGB while some of the Full HD screens used in the T460 covered approx. 61% of sRGB.
dr_st wrote:And still, I would have it over any TN screen in any Thinkpad any day. :D
Well, I guess that's a matter of taste... I'd prefer the AU Optronics B156HW01 V.4 TN screen over the IPS screens in the X220 ;)
dr_st wrote:BTW, thank you for the article. I don't want to give the impression that because I disagree with you on the specific point, that your great informative analysis is not appreciated. :thumbs-UP:
You're welcome :)
Puppy wrote:The biggest Lenovo innovation is the silver T470 :eek:
Actually, the T470 is only available in black. The T470s is available in silver, but there also is a black version.
Puppy wrote:BTW Why Lenovo announces new 2017 models so early, after all ? Sales decline ?
I'm not sure if it makes that big of a difference that they announced most of their new ThinkPads one week earlier than they did last year...
Puppy wrote:There is also no answer to the successfull thin bezel Dell XPS 13 design (Yoga 910 is not a regular laptop).
Well, some Kaby Lake ThinkPads aren't announced yet ;) There already is a leak of the X1 Carbon 5th Gen: https://benchlife.info/lenovo-thinkpad- ... -12122016/
It will have very narrow bezels as well.
Puppy wrote:It looks like there is no new design development in ThinkPad line, just a regular Intel component refresh.
While the overall design of the T470 is very similar to the T460, the T570 has an entirely new design and the chassis is just 8.8 mm more wide than the chassis of the Dell XPS 15 9550. You can find a few (large!) pictures of the T570 here: http://imgur.com/a/mPWUS
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#16 Post by Puppy » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:16 pm

fb1996 wrote:You can find a few (large!) pictures of the T570 here: http://imgur.com/a/mPWUS
Ok, thanks. That looks better. Unfortunately X270 looks like a freak again with all the thick bezels :wink:

Does Lenovo finally noticed the low PWM frequency issue that is almost exclusive to all ThinkPad 2016 models with high resolution displays ? Or are they waiting for a regulation that finally disallow it because of its proven health related issues ? It is a software problem (BIOS or drivers) because the default wrong low frequency can be changed, at least on Intel video chips.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#17 Post by bit_twiddler » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:59 pm

I have to chime in here - yes, as I have recently discovered, it is possible to
engineer an IPS panel which is every bit as crappy as any low-end TN panel.

I recently purchased a Dell m7510 with a "premium IPS FHD display."
The main reason that I bought this machine was that I needed ECC ram.
Otherwise, I would have stuck with my trusty old W520.

I picked the FHD display because I needed some portability and
the 4K displays on this and other 15.6" machines burn a lot
of power.

When I got the machine and set it up, the one thing that disappointed
me was how "dirty" the whites looked, and how the shadows looked
"muddy" and slightly brownish. At first, I was convinced that I had
somehow been shipped a TN panel, and was ready to return the machine.
By comparison, my W520 with a TN screen looks considerably better,
and my T420 with an AU Optronics B140HAN01.1 completely and totally blows it away.

With Dell and this model you apparently have to buy a 4K display to get
anything decent. Lenovo with their T470 would seem to not even offer
a decent FHD display. This is all very sad.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#18 Post by bgx » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:53 pm

We know bezel has been well reduced on the X1C 2017. It s good but does not make the X1C the ultimate laptop.

the firsr batch was not really surprising.

So far: USB C everywhere, TB3 on some model, backlit keyboard on TP13, but nothing else.

No 16/10, no OLED, no 7 row option available in today s annoncement.

Hope to see the retro thhinkpad annonced on the 3rd of jan with the rest of the thinkpads (X1C included).

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#19 Post by Ibthink » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:07 pm

Retro model won´t be announced on CES, so much I can say. It is still too early.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#20 Post by bgx » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:13 pm

that's sad. but thanks for not having our hope being blown up in one week.

I read too much in your reddit post :).

Still expecting for some nice bits on 3rd of january.

Will we have to wait for October or is there a chance we get something orderable earlier?
Luckily, i just ordered a fan for my x60s (was running fanless for the past 3 months expecting to buy something soon and finally decided 10 euros is not that much to have a working machine).

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#21 Post by Ibthink » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:43 pm

I am not sure what time-plan Lenovo has for the Retro exactly (hopefully I can find out more soon enough!). That CES is a bit too early I am certain, but I do hope its announced before October.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#22 Post by fatpolomanjr » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:21 pm

Ibthink wrote:I am not sure what time-plan Lenovo has for the Retro exactly (hopefully I can find out more soon enough!). That CES is a bit too early I am certain, but I do hope its announced before October.
Good for me. I need time to save up tech funds after going all mechanical keyboard and X62 this year. And I still plan to get a T70...
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#23 Post by Puppy » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:45 am

Ibthink wrote:I am not sure what time-plan Lenovo has for the Retro exactly (hopefully I can find out more soon enough!).
Simple "We're working on it" message wouldn't hurt.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#24 Post by bgx » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:30 pm

Is it possible that they will show something about Retro thinkpad at CES but even you are not aware of it because they really want to keep the secret?

Because to be frank, at least for the 28th annoncement, there were nothing to keep secret about (although for once, it was well kept, like the unfamous white TP 470s. Who cares? i dont mind they give a stupid option, as long as the right option is there for the same price).

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#25 Post by Ibthink » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:29 pm

I think the project is still in planning phase, not quite ready for announcement tomorrow.

What is to be considered is that the Retro Project is basically a side project for Lenovo. Its not part of the mainstream-line. Its David Hills pet project. So I guess it makes sense for Lenovo to get the regular models out of the way to then go ahead with the Retro.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#26 Post by crystal castle » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:39 pm

I'm hearing that the TB3 ports on the newly announced 2017 ThinkPad models cannot support eGPU. Is that right?
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#27 Post by dr_st » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:35 pm

fb1996 wrote:
dr_st wrote:Which screen is that? :)
AU Optronics B140HAN01.2 ;)
Looks like I have the same one in my custom T430s. A great screen indeed. :D
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#28 Post by Puppy » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:32 am

fb1996 wrote:Well, some Kaby Lake ThinkPads aren't announced yet ;)
Any news about P series ? Is Lenovo still so arrogant to continue use these terrible second hand 4K screens ? I think the user response and number or returned P boxes is noticeable.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#29 Post by creshal » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:38 am

P series will need quadcores, which aren't announced yet.

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#30 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:42 am

@Puppy:
Methinks we should perhaps change your username into Don Quixote. :lol:
You're fighting windmills...
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