Lenovo CES 2019

[amardeep]

Strictly speaking it's too early for this thread, as I haven't seen any rumours about the 2019 Thinkpads, but since I made the Lenovo CES 2018 thread I thought I'd get in early and do it anyway. If anyone's seen / heard anything feel free to post.

The best I can do is to point out that there is an empty T490 psref page at https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T490 - yes, exclusive news, the new 14" T-series will (probably) be called T490

As usual, I would love a T26 / T490s Classic / something with the new old keyboard with worldwide availability. Expectations of something turning up with this - pretty much 0%. An X390 to compete with the Dell XPS13 would be nice. I suppose the latest CPUs will turn up in much the same range ?

[Ibthink]

I suppose the latest CPUs will turn up in much the same range ?

Yes. In fact, the next ThinkPad generation will use "Whiskey-Lake", which is a very small update of the Kaby-Lake-Refresh chips in current models. With the 2019 ThinkPads, the interesting changes are anything but the CPU.

Speaking of the upcoming ThinkPads: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Th ... 676.0.html E series is likely to be out first (as usual).

[amardeep]

Firmly in the speculative category of rumours, but fwiw

The source reported that Samsung has successfully developed a notebook OLED panel with a 4K resolution. They will be available the following sizes of 13.3 inches, 14 inches, and 15.6 inches. Samsung is actively negotiating with HP, Dell, and Lenovo to supply these panels. Of course, it will launch its own notebook as well.

The report said that the new products developed by Samsung Display have a high resolution, low blue light, wide viewing angle, and thin thickness. Industry insiders predict that there will be many notebook computers using this (and not only) high-resolution OLED panels in 2019.

https://www.gizchina.com/2018/12/03/sam ... -ces-2019/

[Dekks]

Didn't laptop use of OLED suffer from hi energy usage and screen burn? enough that most vendors dropped it.

[Ibthink]

It is true that OLED has some technical disadvantages compared with IPS LCD screens, but it wasn't dropped because of these small problems. It was dropped because Samsung stopped making the screens.

[Puppy]

No, there won't be any T26.

There were more issues, probably due to a wrong Lenovo implementation. You can read tons of posts X1 Yoga OLED has pixelated black screen. I have two Microsoft mobile phones with OLED displays and none of them exhibits a single issue (unlike Huawei P20, Pixel 2 XL and so on). That's why Windows 10 introduced the 'dark mode', to resolve OLED power consumption issues.

But decent quality LCD still has its advantages, unfortunately you can't expect it from Lenovo, regardless of the high price tag.

[amardeep]

No, there won't be any T26.

It does seem strange to develop the keyboard and never use it again, but I'm not surprised given Lenovo's lack of enthusiasm (even the T25 seemed to get done reluctantly, god knows which individuals managed to get that into production).

[Puppy]

Lenovo made 5000 boxes total of the T25 (625 for Europe only ). The project http://blog.lenovo.com/tag/retro+thinkpad was driven by David Hill, the former Chief Lenovo Designer. The original idea was to design a true 25th anniversary ThinkPad again (no 16:9, 7-row keyboard, display lid latches, ThinkLight, LED status etc) but it ended up as T470 with 7-row keyboard only. And yes, the company hated it so much because they want to produce tons of generic junk machines only using the cheapest components available, not a niche product for professionals.

[MikalE]

I still want to know what Lenovo is going to name the T series in 2020.

[Puppy]

to name the T series in 2020.

Tx00 ?

[TPFanatic]

Now that two-digit names have returned a la T25, P40, P50, P70, I anticipate that is where the names will go to.

X20

T40
T50

L30
L40
L50

E40
E50

And so forth.

How they'll reconcile that with the X1, P1 oddities is beyond me.

[dr_st]

Lenovo made 5000 boxes total of the T25 (625 for Europe only ).

I don't believe it. This was probably only the initial run; however, I have no conclusive evidence.

And yes, the company hated it so much because they want to produce tons of generic junk machines only using the cheapest components available, not a niche product for professionals.

This I do believe. Then again, can you blame them? They have no competition and the world is full of morons anyways.

[Puppy]

They have no competition and the world is full of morons anyways.

Theh had no competition. Now is it just generic laptop with a lot of issues as other brands have, or even worse.

[dr_st]

Now is it just generic laptop with a lot of issues as other brands have, or even worse.

I disagree with that as well.

The relative qualities of Thinkpads vs other brands has not really changed for as far as I can remember. Ever since I joined this forum, people have always been saying that "Thinkpads are getting worse". In some ways they did, in others they got better.

The only deal-breaker for me now is still the keyboard, and even their 6-row (which is not good enough for me) is much better on a Thinkpad that on any other laptop, so in that sense at least, Lenovo still has no competition.

[Puppy]

The relative qualities of Thinkpads vs other brands has not really changed for as far as I can remember.

Read this forum https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/ from time to time.

There are endless recurring issues, especially with top models like P or X1 Extreme:

• Changing some BIOS settings bricks the motherboard (the issue affects several models for at least 6 months and Lenovo completely ignores it)

• Build quality like broken touchpad and so on ... you paid $2000+

• High temperatures and loud fan - repasting (or undervolting) usually helps because it was done poorly in the factory

The keyboard mechanics is still good but in selected models only. The ThinkPad branding in general won't guarantee it any longer, for instance ThinkPad 13 one is terrible.

EU pricing of top workstation models like X1 Extreme is insane (first UHD configuration starts at 4200 Euro over here and there are no discounts) compared to HP and Dell (1660 Euro) competition having similar specs.

[dr_st]

a. It does not necessarily mean that there were no "endless issues" 10 years ago; maybe it's just that there was no Reddit community to talk about them to death.
b. Even if there are more issues than before, it still does not make Thinkpads 'generic' laptops. They have unique and useful features still.

[Puppy]

They have unique and useful features still.

The last one is trackpoint. Touchpad is getting more bigger and trackpoint has been transformed into the low profile version because number of corporate customers who prefer it is close to zero. So we can expect it to disappear soon or later.

Good message for me is, I no longer need any laptop as a main machine so I don't care. It is just sad, that all current laptops are crap by either removed features or quality control decline. I still watch 3:2 ones but rather for fun than a need.

[RealBlackStuff]

Lenovo's latest design for the 2019 CES.
Must see!

[Thinkpad4by3]

Lenovo's latest design for the 2019 CES.
Must see!

No no no that's all wrong. Lenovo would never make a keyboard with that many keys or a trackpad that actually dedicates space for the keyboard or an OS that actually works. And the display seems to look like it's 4:3.

[amardeep]

L390 and L390 Yoga at notebookcheck.net and on this forum.

E490s leaked at notebookcheck.net.

By the way, thanks for the David Hill reference regarding the T25. I guess I meant that support for it must have changed internally in Lenovo for the project to go from a public survey with all kinds of suggestions discussed and mocked-up, to one where all these suggestions were watered down to the released model. It seems like Lenovo almost axed the project and ended up doing the minimum, so I wonder who lost faith in it and why, and who stuck by the project. Or did David just "go rogue" to get the T25 produced at all ? The whole process seemed quite odd from an external viewpoint. Anyway, let's see what amazing '90 series machines get released

[Puppy]

It seems like Lenovo almost axed the project and ended up doing the minimum, so I wonder who lost faith in it and why, and who stuck by the project.

If you watch Lenovo production for past few years, the answer is pretty easy. Lenovo is interested in tons of generic laptops made from cheapest components available (their crappy displays across all price categories has become a trademark) only. Now someone (David Hill) came up with the idea "Let's make a unique old-features-and-quality ThinkPad again". You can imagine what support it had gotten inside company already focused to mass crap production.

[pianowizard]

Lenovo is interested in tons of generic laptops made from cheapest components available (their crappy displays across all price categories has become a trademark)...

Acer used to take this approach, which dramatically boosted their sales for a few years, but eventually many consumers realized the importance of having decent displays and stopped buying Acer. After learning this lesson, Acer has been paying much more attention to LCD quality for not just laptops but also desktop monitors. I had abysmally awful Acer monitors about 7 to 10 years ago, but both Acer monitors in my signature (which came out in the past couple years) are really quite good. Let's see how long it will take Lenovo to learn this same lesson.

The screen is the laptop component with which the user interacts the most. Even when we aren't typing, or when the CPU isn't performing difficult computations, we are still looking at the screen, unless we use the laptop just to play audio recordings.

[Thinkpad4by3]

The screen is the laptop component with which the user interacts the most. Even when we aren't typing, or when the CPU isn't performing difficult computations, we are still looking at the screen, unless we use the laptop just to play audio recordings.

*cough* X301 *cough*

I just fired that thing up the other day and was like this was so light and the keyboard was so great...why did I ever abandon this thing. I had my T450 w/ IPS and my T520 w/ TN and I fired it up and....

"HAHA!! The blacks are so bad they are actually grey!"
"AHHH!! My eyes are burning"... and that wasn't an exagguration. My eyes were ACTUALLY HURTING.

So I put it away and went back to my T520.

If they put an IPS display in that X301...or even a half way decent TN display....I'd probably still be using it. I really want to use that machine...but I just can't.

[TPFanatic]

It's "only" 1280x800 but you can put an AFFS screen in the X301.
https://forum.51nb.com/forum.php?mod=vi ... id=1149097

The OEM X301 displays are by Toshiba, as are the X201's WXGA+ and T410s' WXGA+ screens. I don't know about the X201s but the T410s' Toshiba displays have that terrible contrast. The T410s' Samsung displays are better in that regard, but develop the vertical bands issue.

1440x900 is hardly an "upgrade" over 1280x800 anyway.

For a thin and light classic ThinkPad with a good screen the T420s and T430s with IPS mods are ideal. With RMSMajestic's WQHD kit I have finished such a laptop myself and am typing from it right now.

[Thinkpad4by3]

It's "only" 1280x800 but you can put an AFFS screen in the X301.
https://forum.51nb.com/forum.php?

Thought about it and said im not dealing with that right now.

[pianowizard]

*cough* X301 *cough*

For the X300 and X301 I doubt that the crappy LCD panel was to save money, but instead to minimize weight and extend battery duration. Had Lenovo wanted to save money, they would have opted for 1280x800 or 1366x768.

1440x900 is hardly an "upgrade" over 1280x800 anyway.

That's probably true if you usually maximize the browser/document/folder to cover the whole screen, but for those of us who like to view two windows side by side (with some overlap), 1440 vs. 1280 is a fairly big difference. Still pretty hard to do having just 1440 pixel columns, but much better than 1280.

[Thinkpad4by3]

For the X300 and X301 I doubt that the crappy LCD panel was to save money, but instead to minimize weight and extend battery duration. Had Lenovo wanted to save money, they would have opted for 1280x800 or 1366x768.

I never said they were trying to be cheap. I'm saying the display is still a pile of crap anyway you dice it. Like the Cadillac NorthStar engines....never intended to be head gasket blowing Hunk of metal....and it wasn't GM going cheap but that's what happened.

I would have happily carried an extra 0.5lbs if the display was even remotely better.

[Ibthink]

For the X300 and X301 I doubt that the crappy LCD panel was to save money, but instead to minimize weight and extend battery duration. Had Lenovo wanted to save money, they would have opted for 1280x800 or 1366x768.

I would say it probably was chosen to save money. It was a custom made 13.3" 16:10 WXGA+ LED panel, but still TN – Lenovo could have chosen IPS panels instead, as they clearly had access to them at the time (as they were being used in X series tablets like the X61t or X200t). But one mustn't forget the starting price of the ThinkPad X300 / X301 – it started at around 2500 Dollar / Euro in 2008 (which would be more today adjusted for inflation). That was already too expensive to be a sales success, so I could see Lenovo wanting to save money on the screen. After all, even Apple did not use IPS-type screens at the time on their Macbooks and these IPS LCDs were still very expensive compared with TN displays. IPS-screens for laptops would only become more affordable around 2012/2013.

Let's see how long it will take Lenovo to learn this same lesson.

Thing is that Lenovo never really followed Acer's model that much and they already have many different laptops models with good screens, so I doubt they will learn a lesson, because it is practically already learned.

Acer crashed down because of their over-reliance on cheap consumer laptops with which they could flood the market. Those devices weren't reliable at all, which hurt their reputation – couple that with a declining demand by consumers for laptops and Acer just got caught between a rock and a hard place. Compared with Acer, Lenovo always remained much stronger anchored in the business sector with ThinkPads – this is still a pretty healthy sector to this day.

[pianowizard]

I would say it probably was chosen to save money. It was a custom made 13.3" 16:10 WXGA+ LED panel, but still TN – Lenovo could have chosen IPS panels instead, as they clearly had access to them at the time (as they were being used in X series tablets like the X61t or X200t).

Ten years ago IPS panels weighed quite a bit more than TN panels, probably a couple tenths of a pound for 13.3". Lenovo tried hard to minimize the weight of the X300, so they could claim that it "starts at <3 lbs". The lowest weight I have seen in official documents is 2.93 lbs, which would almost certainly have exceeded 3 lbs had IPS been used. Back then IPS panels also consumed significantly more power than TN panels.

But one mustn't forget the starting price of the ThinkPad X300 / X301 – it started at around 2500 Dollar / Euro in 2008 (which would be more today adjusted for inflation). That was already too expensive to be a sales success, so I could see Lenovo wanting to save money on the screen.

IMO that's all the more reason not to worry so much about the cost of the LCD, because the IPS vs. TN difference becomes a fairly small percentage of the entire laptop's cost. But of course I am not as smart as those geniuses at Lenovo, so what do I know.

Acer crashed down because of their over-reliance on cheap consumer laptops with which they could flood the market. Those devices weren't reliable at all...

...and they also had some of the worst displays on the market. Obviously I can't speak for all consumers but I did avoid Acer monitors like the plague for over 5 years after being disgusted by all three Acer monitors that I bought 7 - 10 years ago. Among the three monitors, the 19" 1680x1050 one was really a pity because a WSXGA+ monitor of this size was very unique, but unfortunately it was awful to look at.

[TPFanatic]

1440x900 is hardly an "upgrade" over 1280x800 anyway.

That's probably true if you usually maximize the browser/document/folder to cover the whole screen, but for those of us who like to view two windows side by side (with some overlap), 1440 vs. 1280 is a fairly big difference. Still pretty hard to do having just 1440 pixel columns, but much better than 1280.

I do that and the 160 pixel difference is truly negligible.