Another thumbs-up for IBM Service

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Kenn · #1 Post by **Kenn** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:06 pm

People who know me here know that I'm a huge fan of IBM service, both the Thinkpad Hardware support group in Atlanta, GA as well as the local techs here in upstate New York who do the on-site work.

Yesterday afternoon, I called IBM to order a new keyboard (under warranty) as my "G" key started popping off as I type. I called the IBM-SERV number, told them the problem, and requested the specific FRU for the Thai keyboard. Didn't get any hassles about it, and later THIS MORNING, the new keyboard showed up at my door.

Kudos to those guys - if they keep up this level of service (and the quality of product), I couldn't care less if it says Lenovo or IBM or whatever on it.

ddutta · #2 Post by **ddutta** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:14 pm

My friend had an adapter trouble and it got replaced in 2 days! Thats awesome. If I didnt get such service I would have switched to Apple

STS06 · #3 Post by **STS06** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:18 pm

Kenn, I'm assuming that you send the bad keyboard back right? Or else I see a massive loop hole...

Kenn · #4 Post by **Kenn** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:31 pm

STS06 wrote:Kenn, I'm assuming that you send the bad keyboard back right? Or else I see a massive loop hole...

IBM never requests/requires you to send back old keyboards. They've been worn down to mirror finish by the time I'm done with them though, so it'd probably be a waste of money for them to pay shipping, retrieval, and inspection, etc. for a fairly inexpensive consumable.

I think it's the same with things like LCD covers, wrist-rests, and various bezel replacements. Most other obvious stuff (batteries, adapters, drives, screens, modems and mini-pci cards) of course need to go back -- they'll provide a prepaid shipping label for them.

JohnV · #5 Post by **JohnV** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:53 pm

Kenn...I got a new keyboard for my T42 because I had some wearing issues with my original one. Well when I received it there was no return label in the box. I was suprised a little while later when I received a letter from IBM wanting to know ehere the returned keyboard was. I called IBM to get a label sent to me. I still dont have the return label after two seperate times calling them and they still want the keyboard back.

John

Kenn · #6 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:56 am

JohnV wrote:Kenn...I got a new keyboard for my T42 because I had some wearing issues with my original one. Well when I received it there was no return label in the box. I was suprised a little while later when I received a letter from IBM wanting to know ehere the returned keyboard was. I called IBM to get a label sent to me. I still dont have the return label after two seperate times calling them and they still want the keyboard back.

John

Wow, first I"ve heard of that! Did you get it replaced on warranty? I've been told by IBM directly on two separate occasions that they don't want keyboards returned. I've had 6 keyboard replacements over 3 thinkpads over the last two years, and have never gotten a return label or a request for old ones to be returned...nor have I heard of anyone on these forums needing to return a keyboard replaced under warranty. I think you may be the subject of an unfortunate and one-off fluke, unless others start chiming in with similar stories?

STS06 · #7 Post by **STS06** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:19 am

So you're telling me that people can order new keyboards and just claim their current one is "defective" and IBM won't even check up on that? Meaning, people can just get a few keyboards for safe keeping and use in the future without having to buy them? Is this recommende? I doubt so..walks a fine line on ethics...if not crosses over.

I mean without REQUIRING them to be sent back, people can play IBM all they want..which doesnt make sense.

I had my video card replaced under warranty from Dell for my desktop. They required that I send the defective one back within 10 days or get charged for the new one...so it was clear that you couldn't "bend the rules" or cheat the system.

JohnV · #8 Post by **JohnV** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:40 am

Kenn.....Mine was replaced under warrantee due to abnormal wear on the keys. My T42 is less than a year old and I have some of the letters wearing off on the keyboard. They sent me a new keyboard to replace the old one. They apparently want me to send the old one in because I got the letter saying I would be charged if they dont get it back.

John

Kenn · #9 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:22 am

This thread ended up in a slightly weird place. To answer STS, it's the way it works and yes, it's true that IBM's policy unfortunately makes it easy for people to game the system if they really want. But think about it this way - keyboards are pretty inexpensive items, and I imagine they "fail" in fatal ways, fairly typically and fairly often--what is it, 88+ keys and a trackpoint, all with multiple mechanical parts that get pounded on every day?

They certainly could require you to send it back. However, the costs associated with sending out the expected number of keyboard replacements anticipated under warranty, considering the price of the part, is probably a lot lower than the cost to set up a mandatory return policy, to pay for shipping, to receive, inspect, and dispose.

Also, their usual return-setup is DHL next-day, and setting up a cheaper method for these low-cost, high-failure parts is expensive in itself, and cumbersome/inefficient from an internal tracking perspective, especially when you consider the scale involved here (explaining the question many people ask about why they don't just require cheaper UPS or USPS return-mail).

Also, you talk about how easy it is to cheat IBM by keeping the keyboards. How many are you planning to get? Don't you think they keep some track of this every time you call and give them your machine's serial number? After 2 or 3 in a couple of months, might they not get suspicious? And of course, exactly how hard would it be for you to call, say a key failed, get the new keyboard, and then take a butter knife and pop a key off the old one before sending it back? It costs them money to get it back, the part itself is relatively cheap, and it's easy to game from both sides, so this is probably a calculated cost-benefit policy.

In the end, there are realistic and practicality reasons for IBM's policy (I believe this is the keyboard policy for Dell and others as well), and it's a real-world consequence of having this kind of warranty policy.

I'm sure if EVERYONE started doing it, the total number of "anticipated returns" on the part would shoot up high enough where it would become more cost-effective to curb the practice by requiring returns (or to inspect them and find out why there has been such a rise in failure rates). But then the cost goes up for everyone.

JohnV: Two things bother me about the thinkpad keyboard. The first is the relatively low-tech nature of it (internal ps/2 interface, 3-keystroke serial nature that causes the annoying beep if you type quickly). The other is the notably soft nature of the plastic (or at least the fineness of the matte finish). On mine, the home row keys and parts of the spacebar wore to a mirror sheen within months of first receiving it. After a year, nearly all the letter keys were shiny, and would annoyingly reflect the glare from the thinklight at night. None of the letters rubbed off on this one, but my 14" is starting to lose the lettering on the bottom row (as my fingernails tend to hit those keys when I type).

I don't think it's "abnormal" wear as in a specific defect, I think it just wears out with extended use. Of course, once that happens it's harder to know what keys you're hitting unless you're a 100% touch-typer, and IBM is usually happy to replace the keyboard if this happens in your warranty period. But again, you're the first case I've heard of them requiring a keyboard to be returned. When did this happen? Was it in the States?

Also, do you have the 3-year warranty or accidental damage protection? I paid about $400-500 extra on the purchase price to get extended service and on-site repair, because I simply cannot afford to have a failed part affect me for more than a day or two. I guess it's possible they tier their support based on that, but afaik, others here were not asked to return keyboards either, and I doubt everyone went to the lengths and added costs I did.

MichaelMeier · #10 Post by **MichaelMeier** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:09 am

STS06 · #11 Post by **STS06** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:53 am

kenn, I appreciate the long answer. And to make it clear, I don't sponsor or practice that kind of behavior. I'm just trying to understand the system and make sure its not a flaw that someone may have overlooked (though I know its HIGHLY unlikely). I'm going to be ethica, especially with a company that has treated me well...I'm not going to order keyboards on "false" claims. Plus, whats the point?! If mine doesn't fail, its nearly useless to have extra keyboards (i'd probably misplace then and lose them haha). And if mine does break, as you clearly pointed out, IBM has great service so I can get one ASAP. So no, my intentions aren't as they sound like and I apologize if it sounds like thats the message I'm getting across. And you make very good points. They keeep track I'm positive, b/c even warranties can be misused and abused. Also, the cost affective analysis is a great point. My video card was just a tad bit more expensive in which case I can understand Dell wanting it back! Also they probably neeeded back to analyze it and make sure there isn't an inherent defect i it.... I'm pretty sure the fan on the GC failed, so chip would overheat if not, damaged, and thus I couldnt see anything on my computer..no display. Anyways, thanks for the reply. Good day!

Kenn · #12 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:08 am

Hi STS,

Sorry if it sounded like I went off the deep-end a bit. I like to think I'm not quite as verbose in person (but it's probably not true). You're absolutely right to question the policy--at first blush it does sound like an invitation to fraud. I think it's just one of the realities of doing business and attracting customers, and it's true that if it is abused, we all pay for it because the costs will undoubtedly be passed on to the consumers.

Cheers!

keku · #13 Post by **keku** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:09 am

Guyz, better call the customer service and make sure you don't have to send it back.

This time (in july) I broke a key and requested a replacment they sent me a keyboard but no return label. One of my friend told me that they won't care about keyboard and when he got his replamement they(IBM) never asked it back.

But when I called one lady said .. it's servicable part and needs to be return and she sent me a return label. so might be Lenovo has different policy now.

wantathinkpad · #14 Post by **wantathinkpad** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:59 pm

question how does IBm charge you if you fail to send things back?

Kenn · #15 Post by **Kenn** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:45 pm

wantathinkpad wrote:question how does IBm charge you if you fail to send things back?

Yep, that's exactly how it works. They send you a replacement, you have some reasonable time (don't remember if it's 15, 30, 60 days or something) to put the old part in the box, slap on the pre-paid return label, and send it back. If you don't, they charge you for it, and that's that.

The Counterpart · #16 Post by **The Counterpart** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:46 pm

wantathinkpad wrote:question how does IBm charge you if you fail to send things back?

I don't know about keyboard, but IBM ask for my credit card when I need to swap the hard drive in my T22 a while back. If I didn't send back the defective hard drive, with the credit card onfile, IBM would be able to charge me for it.

DIGITALgimpus · #17 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:43 pm

I'm guessing they just spot check on the keyboards (1 out of every x keyboards they ask for a return, or if you have a history of already ordering one). Most of the time, it would be expensive, and they would just throw it out (which has a cost as a business doesn't get free trash pickup).

wantathinkpad · #18 Post by **wantathinkpad** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:55 pm

guess what I just got home from school. and IBM charged for a keyboard they SENT ME. I didn't ask for it. In my posts back in August. i said i had a RAM problem. I called IBM to help me. while i was trying to get my keyboard off to check the RAM. I made a sound because my clicker on the touchpad came off. The representative was qucik to say "did it break" .. I paused snapped it back on and then told him no.TWICE. This was at about 8:30pm. At 8:15 am. the next morning I had a keyboard waiting for me. After reading the posts it sounded like they weren't going to charge me. More importantly I have the thinkpad protection warranty.
WHy am I getting charged.? Help me . I am about to email them before I do I jsut wanted to make sure what I did wrong. Isn't that covered on the accidental protection.

LtTPfan · #19 Post by **LtTPfan** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:43 pm

My experience with IBM service has also been great, although it was about a decade ago since I last called them when the DC-DC card in my 770ED fried twice. I called them at 1am the first time, speaking to someone with a VERY heavy Irish accent. The next day I received a box to return it in and the Fedex driver was nice enough to wait while I put my machine in it and paste on the return sticker. Two days later he delivered my repaired machine. The 2nd time I used the same box and they gave me some numbers to put on the shipping invoice. Three days later I had my machine back.

Kenn, do you have anger issues you take out on your keyboard, 6 replacements in 3 years?

(Just kidding!) My 770ED is a decade old and used daily for work and play, sometimes 12-14+ hours a day (I'm a freelance programmer), and I'm still using the original keyboard and can easily read all the keys. The keyboard bezel is another matter, I'm on my 3rd having worn the paint off 2, and a relative who refused to identify him or herself put their thumb through one while picking it up. My warranty was long up before my 1st replacement.

wantathinkpad · #20 Post by **wantathinkpad** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:38 pm

Update.
I got and email back and the words were:

I called the parts department and as per their new policy, this *particular
keyboard does not need
to be returned for credit. Therefore, credit is being generated and Invoice
#P1L0043 will clear from..

So yeah apparently I got lucky because of a "new policy". Email them. Make sure you get the facts before you pay for anything. even IBM.Lenovo makes mistakes

IR0NMAN · #21 Post by **IR0NMAN** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:25 am

Well, last month I called them regarding my battery that lost about 50% of its capacity in about 11 months, and the tech support promptly told me he would send me a new one. I called at about 2PM, and the next day Purolator came to deliver it. I'm pretty happy with that.

Another thumbs-up for IBM Service

Another thumbs-up for IBM Service

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