How long can a ThinkPad last?

[winston.oyy]

I wonder how long can my ThinkPad last.

As a student, I don't even abuse my ThinkPad at all. It is always running on AC, so my battery remains fresh (at least I think so, less than 100 cycles and hovering around 42Wh nearing to 3 years of age). Will my ThinkPad last 7 years? I know of ThinkPads that do. This is even more important when new series now all sport widescreens, and I'm still madly in love with 4:3 aspect.

Sadly, Lenovo Singapore refuses to extend my warranty for 2 more years. (I'm a student in London, but I live in Singapore).

Any idea if future ThinkPads will return to 4:3? I would always dream of a T series with 4:3 aspects and switchable graphics (I prefer to save energy, but I do some dota on my T43 now and then), but I do hope they continue not to put in a high resolution screen. I'm so used to my 1024x768 that higher resolution seems alien to me.

Maybe some designer in Lenovo would see this request for 4:3 switchable graphics ThinkPad!

[jdhurst]

ThinkPads can last for 5 years with reasonable use and maintenance. My T41 travelled with me every day for just over 5 years, when I replaced it with a T61p to move to Vista and to 64-bit processing.

Seven years is a bit long. Any computer today that is seven years old is probably a bit slow and may not even have come with XP. If you are lucky, it might go 7 years. If it does not, nothing lost.
.... JDH

[GomJabbar]

A ThinkPad can last a long time, however several things will eventually probably die. The battery first, then the display backlight or hard disk drive. Other drives such as CD, DVD, and a Floppy drive's life depends on how much you use them, and the environment the laptop is exposed to.

I have a ThinkPad 600E that still works, and is about 10 years old. The display was replaced once because I cracked it. The hard drive was replaced once to have more storage capacity. The battery was replaced once since I owned it, but the current battery doesn't hold a charge very long anymore.

I agree with JDH's assessment that 5 years is reasonable expectation considering the above factors and overall computing speed. When the warranty expires on my T42 next year, I'll probably be looking for a replacement - that is if the economy allows me to.

[winston.oyy]

Is a hard drive's lifespan dated from the period of manufacture, or relative to usage?

I doubt my battery will go that quickly, I'm still preserving it at 40% charge whenever not in use. I'm more worried about my hard disk, especially with PATA drives supply running out. I wouldn't have minded to get one to stock up if it's cheap, but the performance of my Thinkpad relative to say, a brand new T400 must be cost efficient too. This is especially so with my warranty running out this June.

Then again, what's the last 4:3 ThinkPad? I'm more critical of the widescreen that anything else in the new series.

[jdhurst]

Batteries are piece of chemistry and start to deteriorate immediately. You cannot save them. The spirits cannot save them. So they will not last anything like 5 years.

Hard drives do not get used up. They have a Mean Time to Failure. Some will go longer; some will give up the ghost earlier. Flip a coin.

Motherboards in the T4x series had a tendency to crack. If you are lovingly gentle, they will go a long time.

You can therefore expect to maintain your computer over a 5 year period. I elected to purchase a 4 year warranty with my T61p with roll cage. If I get a 5th year, it will b gravy.
.... JDH

[goofyGAguy]

My T23 runs like the day it was built.

[JaneL]

Batteries are piece of chemistry and start to deteriorate immediately. You cannot save them. The spirits cannot save them.

I just wanted to repeat this because so many seem to forget what they know about the batteries in their their flashlights and cars when it comes to the battery in their notebook.

[ajkula66]

I'd agree with what's been said about 5 years being a reasonable life expectation...after that period of time it may just not be up to running the "latest" software of the new era...

Of course, you may turn into a collector in the mean time like so many of us have...

My 701C is 14 years old. Works, but rarely gets turned on. Enjoys retirement and the attention that it still gets from unsuspecting public when I flip the lid open...

A31p in my signature is in its sixth year, and turned on 24/7. An extremely useful machine after all these years. However, anything newer than XP Pro will not fly on it...the case is cracked in a few spots, battery is on its last leg but the LCD is still flawless, and by Pentium 4M standards it runs fast and cool. It has been very severely upgraded from its original factory condition, though, with RAM maxed at 2GB and a 80GB/7200rpm hard drive...both of these help its usability.

Now, typing this on a W500...which is a machine from a whole another era, and remarkably fast. I'm fairly certain that it's future-proof for another five years...

My opinions and experiences only.

[Brad]

If there is anything on your hard drive you don't care to lose I would replace it after about three years. After this time the chance of failure goes up dramatically. With the price of hard drives being what they are today its a small price to pay. Of course having a working backup plan is highly recommended which would reduce any data loss to hopefully zero.

Brad

[killer]

Good point by Brad. My HDD failed when the machine was 2 years 10 months old. Luckily I had it replaced under warranty.

[winston.oyy]

Good point by Brad. My HDD failed when the machine was 2 years 10 months old. Luckily I had it replaced under warranty.

Could I simply request for a HDD as a CRU? I've not requested for any serving or warranty maintenance here in UK, so I'm not that sure what to do. My warranty is expiring come 31 May, and I thought maybe I should change my keyboard (shining keys) and HDD before then. Would I be able to do so?

Any UK users here who can help me with how to use my CRU warranty? Though I think I would have some problem performing HDD cloning given my T43 is my sole working machine. Is it possible to simply clone my hidden partition and HDD from within my T43 onto the new HDD?

[dr_st]

I don't think you can request a working part to be replaced under warranty, and I don't think that keyboard shine is covered as an abnormal condition that calls for replacement.

If you talk about making up stories about failing parts, and requesting them to ship you new ones, you might be able to get away with that, or maybe not. I don't really know if they check the parts that are sent to them as defective. In either case, it is dishonest.

[killer]

I agree with dr_st. If you get a replacement HDD the delivery man waits at the door while you hand over the old one ... which gets shipped back to Lenovo. They would probably check it out before sending it back to Hitachi for a refund.

If you do anything dishonest then please remember that however you much you might like prison food and early nights it will not make up for

[winston.oyy]

Haha, I get it. I guess I'm just lucky, got a T43 without any problems except for a spill which disabled my USB ports once.

Thanks anyway.

[j-dawg]

My X24 was treated very well for four years before it got to me, beat to hell while i had it, and now isn't used very often, except for a bit of tinkering (which can actually be pretty dangerous for a PC tbh). Considering that it's been through all that and keeps on chugging...well, there's your seven years, here's to seven more.

[TheRedFox]

My X31 that I recently got is ~5-6 years old, and the internals seem to be functioning as good as any modern laptop (better than some), but there are a few cosmetic flaws (the screen's in fairly bad condition, but nothing that isn't useable, just like scuzz and a little bright mark in one place), because I'm fairly hard on it, the screen latches and monitor closing sensor thing broke off, but i've fixed the monitor closing thing (with a toothpick bit, and duct tape), and I use a little strip of duct tape to keep it closed otherwise. the battery it came with had a little over an hour charge, but my new battery holds the original 4.5h. the keyboard is a bit janky, but nothing to complain about, really. still has good feeling to it.

it also depends upon what model you get. the newer lenovo ones with rugged features are likely to last pretty long. they at least wont die because you dropped it a few times, and I think T23s and T30s are pretty lasting (my friend's T23 died recently, but not before a few newer laptops he had died, so I think he's just exceptionally hard on them. he replaced it with a Dell Precision 15.4" of some sort). 701C ones seem to have lasted wear pretty well, and I believe the A series was notoriously rugged in a lasting sense

[beeblebrox]

Batteries are piece of chemistry and start to deteriorate immediately. You cannot save them. The spirits cannot save them. So they will not last anything like 5 years.

Hard drives do not get used up. They have a Mean Time to Failure. Some will go longer; some will give up the ghost earlier. Flip a coin.

Motherboards in the T4x series had a tendency to crack. If you are lovingly gentle, they will go a long time.

You can therefore expect to maintain your computer over a 5 year period. I elected to purchase a 4 year warranty with my T61p with roll cage. If I get a 5th year, it will b gravy.
.... JDH

Don't laugh, but due to my collection of different notebooks I forgot a battery in the back corner of a large fridge that was used only as a storage for technical materials.
So I found a 9 cell battery for a T40 which I put there in year 2004. 1 cycle only.
I charged it and test it. 68Wh out of 71Wh. For a 5 year old battery, forgotten in a fridge.
Now after 20 cycles it still has 67Wh.
And the T40 runs about 6h40min. Not too bad!

[Marin85]

Don't laugh, but due to my collection of different notebooks I forgot a battery in the back corner of a large fridge that was used only as a storage for technical materials.
So I found a 9 cell battery for a T40 which I put there in year 2004. 1 cycle only.
I charged it and test it. 68Wh out of 71Wh. For a 5 year old battery, forgotten in a fridge.
Now after 20 cycles it still has 67Wh.
And the T40 runs about 6h40min. Not too bad!

Wow, that´s interesting and at the same time surprising... I guess good old IBM can last long and preserve its quality over time

BTW, I wish I had 6h with the 9-cell in my Z61p :sigh: (I never tried to put it in the fridge though...)

[basketb]

Don't laugh, but due to my collection of different notebooks I forgot a battery in the back corner of a large fridge that was used only as a storage for technical materials.
So I found a 9 cell battery for a T40 which I put there in year 2004. 1 cycle only.
I charged it and test it. 68Wh out of 71Wh. For a 5 year old battery, forgotten in a fridge.
Now after 20 cycles it still has 67Wh.
And the T40 runs about 6h40min. Not too bad!

Please report back in a few months. It might be that your battery deteriorates much faster than a truly new one. A new 9-cell battery in my T60p took over 130 cycles in a little over one year to lose 1Wh (from 84 to 83). But now, another 9 months later and 100 cycles more, it's down to 64 Wh.

[killer]

This topic makes me laugh because it seems like asking the question, "How long will I live?"

The answer is, "It depends."

Surely it depends on usage, cleanliness, mobility, smoking, drinking, humidity, temperature, acidity of the atmosphere in your area, number of times dropped, bumped, etc., etc.

[winston.oyy]

Don't laugh, but due to my collection of different notebooks I forgot a battery in the back corner of a large fridge that was used only as a storage for technical materials.
So I found a 9 cell battery for a T40 which I put there in year 2004. 1 cycle only.
I charged it and test it. 68Wh out of 71Wh. For a 5 year old battery, forgotten in a fridge.
Now after 20 cycles it still has 67Wh.
And the T40 runs about 6h40min. Not too bad!

Quite expected of it. I read that lithium ion batteries' lifespan starts ticking from the day it is manufactured. However, storing it at low temperatures can help to slow down it's aging process, optimal storage temperature around 10 degree celcius, with a storage capacity of 40% charge. My T43 has largely been on AC power, and my battery has been set to a range of 35 to 40% capacity range whenever I don't use it. After almost 3 years, at room temperature and 40% charge, it can still hold 42Wh out of a manufactured 52Wh, which gives me a rough 2.5h with maximum battery settings.

Anyway, kudos to your battery.

[SafeHarbor]

It's interesting to me that in the last ten years, I've been through numerous desktops, but only three ThinkPads, of which two are still with me and working. (The first one would still be here, too, if I'd discovered this forum earlier.)

Using a notebook 24/7 or even daily is foreign to me. I mainly use my notebook when I travel, and that's what I buy them for. They spend most of their time in their cases, but I also use them for testbeds when I'm playing with software.

I don't know how long one will ultimately last, but I know that it took me three years to wipe the labels off the home row keys of my T21, which was made in 1999, and that was using it to do work five days a week.

My R52 and T61p have relatively sedate lives. Both have relatively low total battery cycles. When the power went out during the snowstorms in Georgia this week, I used the T61p sparingly to check our EMC's (power company) outage maps with the USB wireless stick and was able to do a little work thanks to an APC battery extender as well. I got about 3.0 hours total out of the auxiliary battery and had just started on the main battery when, 48 hours later, the power returned.

I also used the R52 a couple of years ago for a week when my desktop was gone for repairs. To my surprise, it scaled up to 1650 x 1080 like a trooper.

Heat is the enemy of laptops. I think that if you can keep it cool and keep the battery cycles down, it can last a very long time, and I think that seven years is not out of the question.

The question to me would be just how slow the laptop would appear by that time. Windows 7 will be a reprieve for relatively recent hardware, but, gee, what comes next?

(Unrelated rant: everybody talks about how well Linux runs on old hardware with 256 MB of RAM. How come nobody mentions that Linux literally FLIES on modern hardware?)

Winston, I wish the best for you, and I hope your ThinkPad holds on for you.

Lamar

[TheRedFox]

Is a hard drive's lifespan dated from the period of manufacture, or relative to usage?

I doubt my battery will go that quickly, I'm still preserving it at 40% charge whenever not in use. I'm more worried about my hard disk, especially with PATA drives supply running out. I wouldn't have minded to get one to stock up if it's cheap, but the performance of my Thinkpad relative to say, a brand new T400 must be cost efficient too. This is especially so with my warranty running out this June.

Then again, what's the last 4:3 ThinkPad? I'm more critical of the widescreen that anything else in the new series.

Not 100% positive, but I believe that the last 4:3 thinkpad is The X61/s/t

[esquire]

I have been working around Africa for the last 5 years.
Have a T42 DXU - 15 inch screen with the nice screen.

My battery has 832 cycles, and 2 wh of capacity --- I tried ordering a new battery last year but they found it difficult to find. Heh anyway, I'm never far from an outlet.

It has been dropped several times. Once it fell off my bed at a height of 2 feet onto a hard tile floor (while turned on!). Survived just fine.

As it gets up to 35C on a regular basis here, sometimes the operating temp can get to over 90C... (hmmm right now I'm at 87C! hehehe) when it politely shuts itself down (to prevent melting I suppose).

I had a fan problem 2 years ago and the tech in Nairobi actually cracked the logic board while trying to disassemble my baby, so it was all replaced for free (thank you worldwide IbM warrenty).

I would really like to upgrade...maybe later this year. I am rather sentimental, and I love the non-glossy screen on the t42 that doesn't distort like other lcd screens.

Anyway, suffice to say, I really don't think they make them like they used to.

[ThinkPad R]

My ThinkPad R40 theoretically should have lasted only 2~3 yrs.

After 1 1/2 yrs, certain keys became rlly weak, but b/c I had maintenance I could get a new set of keyboard.

After 2 yrs, one of the screen latches developed a glitch - I had to push it in myself, it wouldn't return to its locked position on its own

After 3 yrs, 1 of the trackpoint mouse buttons became rlly weak

By this time my screen was shaky b/c of wobbly hinges (w/o much effect, except on the bus). I now think that if IBM hadn't tightened the hinges 1 1/2 yrs before as part of overall maintenance check, it would have been pretty bad.

But I eventually figured out how to open up the computer & tighten the hinges, but that did not completely get rid of the shaking b/c it was now a structural problem concerning the rear end of the laptop, instead of loose screws.

I didn't use battery often, but after 5 yrs, my 6 cell battery w/ max (the lowest settings) 6 hrs of battery life (unbelievable, right? R40 won editor's choice in CNET review) had only 40 min of battery & the performance was quite unstable (i.e. battery gauge would show 30% & then suddenly I'd see orange 5% or 1%, etc.)

--------------
PS. It's now pretty bad. I need to get a new laptop, ThinkPad preferably.

2 myths:

1) ThinkPads are way too expensive - not true. I think Lenovo is playing a psychology game on the customers by making the laptop's base price high but upgrades relatively cheap. So even at a similar price (i.e. comparing a dell laptop & ThinkPad, the TP gets much longer battery life, Vista Basic vs. Premium, 2 times smaller HDD, 80GB vs 160GB, 1 GB RAM less, but 1 GB Intel Turbo Memory +... don't forget the security & accident/protection/security features), ppl feel that their purchase of ThinkPad was considerably more valuable, etc. & the brand remains to be an expensive one.

2) ThinkPads are invincible - not true. Other companies like Dell have caught up significantly in terms of durability & longevity, etc. Durability doesn't just mean the stronger aluminum chassis. It also means strong screen hinges, keyboard & mouse buttons that last, etc. I still think ThinkPads in general should last longer.

[archer6]

What a great question...

Take a look at the list of my ThinkPads below, it represents most (not all) of the ThinkPads I own. I purchased each of those new within a few months of their release date. Much like a guy with a car collection, I have a ThinkPad collection, I've kept every one of them. Each and every one functions within a few percentage points of the day it was new. However it must be said that I am extremely careful, and always use a very expensive shock resistant case to carry them. Each was carried and used for work quite extensively on a daily basis. I continue to take them out and use them once or twice per year to keep them in working order. Save for the occasional expired component, frankly I've been amazed at the service life of the various parts. Obviously they are not to be compared with current machines in terms of performance.

Bottom line... how long with a ThinkPad last?.... it depends on how you take care of it. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers...

[VFR_firefly]

Thinkpads are invincible. I have to disagree with an above commenter on that one. Yes, they can and will eventually break -but a person with a modicum of technical knowledge can fix them fairly easily. Lenovo has excellent support with regards to manuals, tech bullitins, driver updates, software downloads, and will host all this material seemingly forever on their website.

Thinkpads seem to be THE choice for business-users. It's not disposible consumer-grade junk. And since so many businesses use thinkpads there are a lot of them around. Usually the business world uses them until they are a couple/three years old and then they get rid of them. This floods the market with cheap thinkpads and even thinkpad parts from machines that weren't very well taken care of by their users.

That combined with excellent resources like this very site can keep just about any thinkpad going for ever as parts are always available fairly cheap and the knowledge, knowhow, and documentation are right there at your fingertips.

I've got a fleet of old 770's that still work as good today (or better as they are all tricked out to the max) as the day they were shipped to the original purchasers. I can keep them going forever as parts seem to be just about free these days for them. THe only thing is that they are getting a little long in the tooth. I expect so much more from a laptop these days and use it as a daily driver. Right now I'm using a pair of T4x's and they are awesome machines. Parts are cheap and easy to get and now the motherboard issue seems to be fixed with low-cost GPU reballing. How long will they last? Until I can find the next leap-frog of a cheap Thinkpad (and it will be a thinkpad) when I get impatient with the T-40's not being powerful enough for the applications I'm using. The hardware will last forever with just a little bit of maintenance.

I've owned and used other brands. I will never touch an HP laptop as they just don't have the support that Lenovo has. After a couple of years HP doesn't even want to ADMIT they sold "legacy" hardware, much less have any downloads or other support. Good luck on getting a tech-level maintenance manual even if you COULD pay for it. I learned the hard way what HP thinks of its customers (suckers) with my last laser printer I bought from them (HP laserjet 1100A) What an abortion. they have no interest in fixing software issues/rivers like no support for XP with the scanner, no update for the firmware even though it has a known "won't wake up from hibernation mode" issue even when used with an HP printserver! Fix it? No -the just orphaned it and called it "legacy" after only a couple of years on the market. Ohh, thanks for the $25 coupon on my next HP laser printer with trade-in on your junk... No thank you. I'm not going to ever buy an HP laptop -'ll stick with Lenovo! leaned my lesson.

Lenovo has a different attitude towards supporting their equipment and STANDING behind their product.

[bill bolton]

Yes, they can and will eventually break - but a person with a modicum of technical knowledge can fix them fairly easily.

Maybe... it depends on the failure mode.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[VFR_firefly]

Yes, they can and will eventually break - but a person with a modicum of technical knowledge can fix them fairly easily.
Maybe... it depends on the failure mode.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Every part is pretty much available. Used/broke/parts machines are easily aquired. There are a ton of Thinkpads on the market since so many are made.

Mechanics swap engines in cars every day. Swapping a motherboard on a laptop is much easier and quicker.

Even a T4x motherboards can be found, or R50 replacements. If the GPU is bad you can have Superior Reball repair it for $45. Short of dropping the laptop into a fire, it can be fixed. There aren't that many moving parts to wear out.

They pretty much DO last forever -or at least much longer than the technology is worthwhile keeping going.

[archer6]

<snip> I have to disagree with an above commenter on that one. Yes, they can and will eventually break -but a person with a modicum of technical knowledge can fix them fairly easily. <snip>

I believe my post may have been misinterpreted. No where in my post do I talk about ThinkPads "breaking" and being unrepairable.

Cheers...